Author Topic: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop  (Read 21047 times)

Vojtas

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Re: fundamental positions in diabolo
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2005, 06:09:18 pm »
Quote from: ming
the last thread about combos got me thinking (a rare thing). I think there's a group of positions that are fundamental to diabolo ie open string, crossed strings etc, and that some tricks have can only be done from certain positions but if these positions were mapped out then we could use this as a notation system for combos with tricks being the transitions between these positions.
similar to siteswap, but without numbers, all the tricks that return you to the same position could be grouped together in the position and all tricks that change the position could be group into what they change it into, thus providing a way to note combos.
is this making sense to anyone?
emmet

Gooooood idea... Can you do it?? This should be reeeealy difficult  :D
Job for The Mad French Posse. Maybe they should write a book...  :D
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ming

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[WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2005, 06:19:09 pm »
I think i can well with all the tricks i know, if people help list the non obvious positions and some transfers between them.

seán_

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[WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2005, 06:40:35 pm »
I think there is a group on Jongle.net who were discussing something simmilar to this a couple of months back. Maybe one of the French diaboloists can recall more. though I think a lot of discussion about using an actual siteswap.

Also http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=331&highlight=key+points bit of a discussion about a diabolo search engine that could be used to build combos from key points (shelved for a wiki I believe)

Vojtas

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[WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2005, 07:01:12 pm »
Diabolo trick search engine... wow... this SHOULD work!! Really, someone has to do that... But it'll be sooo difficult... To include all the possible tricks and make connection between them and make some believeable graphic... Task for some computer-game making  people...
What if the prophecy is true? What if tomorrow the war could be over? Isn't that worth fighting for? Isn't that worth dying for?
-Morpheus

norbi

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[WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2005, 08:02:22 pm »
am i completely mistaken but isnt the whole combo workshop by Eric and Antonin about key positions (well thats the idea i got in Vegas)

ming

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[WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2005, 08:28:32 pm »
Having just read the workshop thread i think its basically the same idea except in my scheme i was thinking more of positions of the string and body with tricks being covered in these positions similiar to yft notation in yoyo

Arjan

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[WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2005, 09:51:41 pm »
Yes this is more and less the foundation to their 1 diabolo building combo`s workshop. So... discussion will take place in that topic, I`m sorry, but this one kind of overlaps that one.

seán_

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[WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2005, 10:56:35 pm »
Quote from: ming
... similiar to yft notation in yoyo


could you enlighten us to this Ming?

ming

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[WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2005, 01:41:52 pm »
Its quite tricky to explain but i'll try, tfy  in its most basic it says that all yoyo tricks can be broken down into a series of holds and the way you note these holds is by saying where the strings is bending, ith t= throwing hand, f= free hand and y=yoyo, so say a trapeze(stopover) would be noted by yf ie moving from your throw hand you meet the yoyo first then your free hand. and then there is a series of moves that can change one hold into another and there's moves that don't change the hold your in. you with me?
so what im getting at is if you list the basic positions in diabolo then you could link them all together by transitions between them or have seperate moves that don't change the position. from what i've read of eriks post i think what i've thought of is just a more general system then theirs
emmet

Indy

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Re: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2007, 09:45:03 pm »
Sorry for digging up such an old topic.

At the moment I'm very into making my own 1d combo's.
I was wondering if any of you guys use the keyposition system to make your combo's.
For me it's not that easy to do, so I just don't wright it all down. I'm trying to keep it all up in my head.

Does someone have an example of their keyposition system?



Thanks,
Indy
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garner

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Re: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2007, 05:04:24 pm »
i use the key position stuff but what happnes in my head  is different to what happens on paper...
i can give you a wirtten example:


red squares are key positions. greean squares are proper combos and the black writing are just the inbetween bits from combo to combo.

i guess that'll do, but you could keep the flow diagram going and loop things back on themselves etc...
however, in reality every instant is a key position as you can change your mind to what you want to do half way through a trick e.g. if i do a left inverse trapeze suicide i don't decide whether i'll catch it btb or do a 360 or whatever until i've already let go of a stick.
having the diagram in your head comes in handy when your being pushed up on stage though.

Indy

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Re: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2007, 07:50:10 pm »
Garner thanks for the example and explanation :).
I really had no idea of how to write it down, now I can make my own diagram.
Having it all in your head is also very handy if you're just freestyling a bit.
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garner

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Re: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2007, 08:04:00 pm »
just don't steal the combos lol or i'll hunt you down and give you a 'diabolo off'! lol
if you want to create wierd and wonderful combos that can't be written down then try giving yourself limits like : 20 second combo NO LESS! and only using suns and throws(or some other principle tricks)

cpai

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Re: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2007, 11:01:46 pm »
What does (2n+1)π mean?
3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751...

garner

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Re: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2007, 01:29:13 am »
well it was (pi) not n
there are 2(pi) radians in a circle
there are 360 degrees in a circle
so 180=pi
i could use alot more maths for this but the simple fact is that
i prefer to rwrite radians than degrees as i'm a maths geek  ;)

so (2n+1)(pi) mean your spinning 180, 540, 900........anthing your fast enough for

Chiok

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Re: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2007, 03:36:19 pm »
Geek!  Radians instead of degrees... only good for maths because things cancel better with constants.

However, very interesting mapping of your combo ideas.  They show a good flow through the stages and I guess really help visualise what you could do instead of "just going for it" so potentially reducing the amount of time faffing.

Chiok
(gradians anyone?)
www.gravityvomit.co.uk - Gravity pulls down, we throw up.
University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

garner

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Re: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2007, 05:57:02 pm »

Geek!  Radians instead of degrees... only good for maths because things cancel better with constants.

i'm no geek. i've got pi and a mobius strip tatooed on my wrist haha.


gradians anyone?

how about no.

(maybe i do love maths about to much)

garner

cpai

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Re: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2007, 12:35:30 am »
The posting window screwed up my pi symbol. If you look closely you'll see a difference between my "n" and "pi". But thanks for the explanation.
3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751...

garner

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Re: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2007, 01:10:02 am »
since i find myself back in this thread again today i thought i would propose a serious question.

     according to A&E's diabolo theory a wrap and a knot are distinctly different. but in practice i can't really see how they differ that much e.g. infinate chinese suicide and wrapped infinate suicide are the same other than the speed of rotation. so could somebody explain to me why a wrap cannot be expressed as a knot with no sticks involved?

seán_

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Re: [WJF] Eric and Antonin's 1 diabolo workshop
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2007, 01:30:30 am »
a wrap only releases a diabolo upon unwrapping, a knot can release to a throw directly or to darkside.

I'd contest that in the case of a chinese suicide what you have is an interrupted wrap since as soon as you slant the stick the wrap finally forms