Author Topic: Diabolo(s) On A Loop  (Read 9365 times)

Beni

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Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« on: December 13, 2006, 10:03:29 pm »
It struck me today as I was learning Nick's eiffel tower on a loop that there isn't much experimentation on this style of diaboloing (apart from by Nick). I also have a few questions on looping/loop diaboloing (what's the term??). Can you get it into vertax/excalibur? How? Are there more 'suicides' apart from the sort of duicide trick where you through the whole lot like a whip duicide? Is it possible with 3 diabolos? Surley with a theme like this there must be loads of string figures possible. Anyway, I will continue experimenting. Anyone else have thoughts/questions?

Tom Derrick

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2006, 10:33:48 pm »
I've done a fair bit of experimenting with a loop. Vertax is perfectly possible, and can be done around the body in a hula-hooping style. It has a tendance to keep moving down the body, but I've finally worked out how to keep it running around my knees. A few suicides are possible, but since the string doesn't carry the weight that a stick has, the variety is reduced. They look flashiest when caught in a whip catch, but recapturing the string after a revolution or two can be decent. A greater range of suicides, and genocides, for that matter, can be performed if an item (I use a ring) is attached to the loop.

I've spent a bit of time experimenting with two diabolos in a loop, and have learnt/come up with a few of suns, a string climb, a couple of fans, plus some starts. I reckon I could develop more if I got some bearing diabolos, since I lose speed too quickly to make any more complicated tricks work.

Three diabolos haven't been done in the conventional shuffle. A two handed two diabolo shuffle can accommodate a third diabolo on top of the loop, which is technically doing three diabolos, but isn't that impressive. I've also succeeded in doing three diabolos in three separate loops, in a concentric type arrangement, which looked much more interesting than the other way.

I hope that's answered your questions.

Llama_Bill

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2006, 10:37:03 pm »
Look for Tom Derrick videos he does some nice trick including round the body Excalibur (not to start a flame war but vertax is a silly name and not in my Firefox dictionary), also Dave B has a video of loop diabolo.  Final extra, look for a Yukki Loop Diabolo video; it's amazing.  You can do the Breath Heart (yo-yo trick) via a Green Triangle Flying Trapeze (yo-yo trick) motion.  Normal yo-yo suicides are possible from the right mount.
Bill.

William

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2006, 10:47:38 pm »
not to start a flame war but vertax is a silly name and not in my Firefox dictionary

No way! I think many more would agree that Excalibur is just a stupid name for a sword hehe. The name Vertax has meaning.
William - YouTube! "NO! If they're blue, you should not touch your nuts." - Aaro

Llama_Bill

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2006, 11:04:39 pm »
The name Vertax has meaning.

Well answers.com and Wikipedia tell me that Vertax in fact has no meaning at all.  Why rename it now so late in the game?
Bill.

William

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2006, 11:09:02 pm »
Well answers.com and Wikipedia tell me that Vertax in fact has no meaning at all.  Why rename it now so late in the game?

Because Vertax was a word made by diaboloists! Vert meaning Verticle. Ax meaning Axle. Verticle Axle! Who cares if its in a dictionary or not?
William - YouTube! "NO! If they're blue, you should not touch your nuts." - Aaro

Tom Derrick

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2006, 12:32:23 am »
Excalibur (not to start a flame war but vertax is a silly name...)
That's an odd opinion from someone who prefers the name Excalibur.

Heading back on topic...
I'm not sure if I actually have any individual videos of myself doing loop online. There's a bit of me with a loop in Synergy, plus in one of the Bungay videos, and that start tutorial preview (which I never got around to finishing. in the new year...). If people really want some stuff, I could film what I've got, but it wouldn't make that interesting a video, particularly since I'm crap at editing.

one.man.band

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2006, 10:21:00 am »
I'd still like to see it! You could always ask someone on the site if they'd help you with the editing.
Not sure how many times my diabolos have been in the pond

Nick

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2006, 01:35:28 pm »
Good to hear that people are playing around with loop diabolo (and enjoying one of my tricks).
Suicides are very possible with a loop. Diabolumberto has a video with a couple of suicides and a duicide here. As for me, most of my suicide-style tricks are similar to yo-yoing slack tricks. A basic version would be to pop the diabolo onto the top of the loop so that you have a loop around each finger. Put your right hand thumb into the loop around your left finger and pinch it in your right hand. Swing the diabolo to the right, and release the slack loop on your left finger like a suicide. Catch the loop back on the left finger and let go of the pinch on your right hand and you should be back where you started. I realise that this probably sounds a bit garbled, so here is a (badly drawn) picture. It's drawn from the player's view point and the diagram in Step 5 isn't entirely correct, but I hope it gives an idea of what is supposed to be happening. Once you've got the idea play around and try to find other positions where you can pinch strings to make more slack loops.

Tom: How are you getting on with those loop fans? They were looking good at BJC.
Bill: The loop video is Yukki, not Makky. And why weren't you at SRC? Shame on you!

Nick.
City landmark might be feet lower if rebuilt (6,5)

Llama_Bill

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2006, 04:05:35 pm »
I think we should do a .Ca loop diabolo collaboration video to get around Tom's (supposedly) bad editing.

(I wanted to go SRC but I had to show my Mum and Dad how to buy a Wii for Christmas.  Are there any videos yet?)
Bill.

Beni

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2006, 05:13:52 pm »
Thanks for the replies :).

I'd love to see some of your 2d on a loop stuff Tom even if it isn't edited. There soesn't seem to be much in the way of catergorizing tricks and there is still a LOT of undiscovered stuff. I was thinking of maybe having a database on this thread or a new thread of descriptions/tutorials/videos/ideas of tricks for loop diaboloing (or looping?).

For example, a trapeze variation.

1) Get up a bit of speed and have the diabolo in a neutral position (both hands in the loop, diabolo hanging, no twists in the string).
2) Take your right hand out of the loop.
3) Pinch* the both strings about 5 inches from the diabolo.
4) Swing the diabolo anticlockwise around your index finger and catch it on the strings on the left of your right hand.
5) You are now in a simple trapeze position. To exit, simply swing the diabolo clockwise around your finger, release the string and put your right hand into the loop again.

This is just a quick example. What do you think?
Vertax is perfectly possible...

How do you get into it?

Also sorry for forgetting you when I mentioned that nobody was really experimenting with loops. I've seen your starting 2d on a loop tutorial.


[Slightly off topic]

Nick, have you got any videos or descriptions of the string figure trick in your picture. I'm interested in string figures too (in fact that was one of the reasons I started doing diabolo on a loop), but I'm nowhere near good enough to invent my own. I once invented a sort of star cradle, but I never got round to doing it properly :(.   


Martijn

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2006, 07:51:04 pm »
(not to start a flame war but vertax is a silly name and not in my Firefox dictionary)

Well, remarks like that usually do start them. Please stay ontopic next time.
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Tom Derrick

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2006, 08:37:42 pm »
I made a , as I thought it'd be easier than a text description.

I hope that you can understand what I'm saying through my English accent, and that what I'm saying is useful.

Martijn

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2006, 10:27:45 pm »
Really nice Tom, it's not that hard. Very clear tutorial :)
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Matt_

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2006, 07:01:00 am »
Wow, good job. You look so smooth doing that too, you're just having a conversation with the camera and doing it perfectly. Well done!

Nick

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2006, 09:05:58 am »
Nick, have you got any videos or descriptions of the string figure trick in your picture.

Beni,
Do you mean the picture in my avatar (<- here)? If so, I do have a video of it, but I don't think that it is online anymore. I shall find it over the weekend and upload it again on Monday. In the meantime here is an old video of a loop string figure you can try:- Rolling Star.

I wanted to go SRC but I had to show my Mum and Dad how to buy a Wii for Christmas.  Are there any videos yet?

That seems like a worthy cause, did you manage to get one? I think that there are some blurry Flash videos on the Yoyoz forum, but Dan will probably put his up soon-ish.

Nick.
City landmark might be feet lower if rebuilt (6,5)

Beni

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2006, 10:41:53 pm »
Yes I did mean your avatar Nick. Thanks!
I'm attempting to learn the trick (was it invented by you?) but it's quite hard to see how to do it. Maybe it's just me.

Thanks for the video Tom, you do good tutorials. I too am English :).

I think we should do a .Ca loop diabolo collaboration video to get around Tom's (supposedly) bad editing.


I think a d.ca colab video is a bit ambitious at the moment, but it isn't up to me. More loop videos and tutorials would have to come before we tried anything big. After all (to my knowledge), not many of us have tried looping, though after Nick's aditions to the d.ca colab video, I wouldn't be surprised if more people did.

For anyone who's interested, here are the times that looping is happening in the colab video:
1:55 - 2:03 [Nice combo Nick :).]
6:10 - 6:18 [Vertax - Nev.]

EDIT: There is another bit later on, can't remember where though.

And the link is


nev

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2006, 11:25:32 am »
6:10 - 6:18 [Vertax - not sure who this is.]

That would be me.  I mess around with loop every now and then, but dont really spend much time with it - I have the basics with 1 & 2 + some vertax stuff but nothing special.  I think the yoyo guys have a much greater knowledge of it (due to the crossover of techniques etc).

Yukki however is the KING of loop www.circuspla.net/mirror/yukky.wmv - & thats quite an old vid now, god alone knows what devious things he's learnt since.

Loop is fun - everyone should try it.

Loop fans - now that got my attention - I'd like to see those  ;D
www.Diabolomoves.co.uk/diabolos/ - shop for Sundia diabolos, Handsticks & String

Beni

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2006, 09:59:11 am »
Thanks for the vdeo Nev. That was a great performance, shame he messed up on the 2d stuff.

Loop is fun - everyone should try it.

True! :D

Nick

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2006, 11:27:27 am »
Beni,
Here is the video that my avatar was taken from:
Nick - Web-o-rama - February 2006
The original post and a discussion of the last trick can be found in this thread:
http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=120.30

Back on the subject of loops, I spent quite a bit of time playing loop this weekend and came up with some new ideas and some new combos. Unfortunately most of them seem to end up in the same Eiffel tower. Bah! I shall try to figure out some more varied stuff over the Christmas holidays.
For some more loop inspiration check out this offstring yo-yo video by Kazuaki Sugimura. In theory anything he does where he holds both ends of the string in one hand (ring hold) is possible on a loop diabolo.
That Yukki video is ridiculous. Every time I watch it I notice something else amazing. Apparently his name is Yukki Suzuki and he is/used to be on Team Yomega. Quite talented at two-handed yo-yoing, too. Can anyone confirm?

Nick.
City landmark might be feet lower if rebuilt (6,5)

Martijn

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2006, 01:40:58 pm »
Those string figures are awesome Nick! Especially the last one, from your avatar. Rock on!
download Made in Taiwan at www.arjangroenendijk.nl

Beni

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2006, 06:28:28 pm »
I've looked at the string figures Nick they are amazing. I'll attempt them, especially the last one :).

The yoyo video was sweet, especially the string figures and whips. I'll experiment a bit more on normal looping once I have my vertax sorted.

Oh and there's also a looping bit on Barnesy's site (not to be confused with www.2diabolos.net).

Shawn Fumo

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2006, 04:13:02 am »
Nick,

His full name is Yukihiro Suzuki. Yeah, he was a very gifted two-handed yo-yo player. I think he was on THP (Team High Performance) Japan, which was technically run by Bandai but promoted Yomega's yo-yos (among others). To this day, many two-handed players use modified Raiders from Yomega for their freestyles. I think Yukki's strength was his incredible control over pure looping tricks (as opposed to stuff like wraps that'd come later) and his charisma. I believe he joined a french circus school at some point. Not sure if he's still there or not..

This is one of his freestyles from 2002. The thing he does right before his yo-yos tangle (kurukuru reverse staircase... where he reverses the direction of his turn with his wrists going around each other) is something I think only a handful of people could do even today, especially with that level of control. It's like three-diabolo type level stuff.. :)
http://www.yoyoing.com/videos/play.php?vid=1719&w=528&h=426

Two more freestyles in this folder (the Yajin ones.. another of his nicknames..heh)
http://yoyoing.com/shawn/videofiles/misc/

Anyway, back on topic... I love that people are exploring loop diabolo more. There has to be a ton of possibilities out there! I need to get some gloves and break out my Beach or something. :)

Also, for that picture that you posted Nick, have you tried to do a figure 8 type motion with your hand so that the loop and diabolo circles on both sides of your arm? (For a larger diabolo, it'd probably easier to go on the opposite side of the body instead of just the arm) This shows what I mean:
http://www.mastermagic.net/TrickVideo/Expert/Frames/Revolutions.html

Shawn

Nick

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2007, 11:01:03 am »
Hello Shawn.
Good to hear from you and thank you for the videos. 2A has never really been my favourite style, but he has certainly got some skills.
As for Revolutions, I did try it but without much success. I think that the greater weight of the diabolo makes it harder to keep going than the yo-yo version. It is probably still possible, so I shall try it some more.
Thanks,
Nick.
City landmark might be feet lower if rebuilt (6,5)

Diabolo88

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2007, 10:39:49 am »
Quote
And the link is


Umm, anyone know the first excalibur trick (some kind of integral suicide)?

Martijn

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Re: Diabolo(s) On A Loop
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2007, 11:38:06 am »
It's by Nev, but it doesn't really fit in this topic, does it? :P
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