Author Topic: My Idea...  (Read 11233 times)

Darragh

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2008, 01:31:16 pm »
the idea of externally mounted tapered roller bearings, on the outer edge of the cups looks like it could work.
espically if the light weight plastic bearing that Nev it talking about really exist ;)
From lost to the river

nev

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2008, 02:19:42 pm »
You doubt me?  -  they exist
www.Diabolomoves.co.uk/diabolos/ - shop for Sundia diabolos, Handsticks & String

James C B

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2008, 02:31:52 pm »
the magnet idea looks promising. 2D with both diabolos having the same charged rings, they would repel, imaging the tricks you could do with that

Darragh

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2008, 02:35:45 pm »
na still dint believe ya
just like i dont believe all the fan combos and variations you showed at the BJC are really possable
Nev it might sound crazy but i think you are a CGI and so are your plastic bearings
but back to the topic
complicating the simplistic beauty of the diabolo
From lost to the river

Jussi

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2008, 03:19:47 pm »
if you think about it, if it was dropped it wouldnt roll away, well as far anyways. the only flaw i see with that design is what keeps the bearing from sliding off it?

well.. yeah.. there must be "gap" in diabolo cup that keeps those bearing balls (and whole ring) in same place all the time...

with ring diabolo you can give speed to diabolos when those lie on the floor.. i believe you can put example 4 this kind of ring diabolos to the floor, put string under these and give speed to all these 4 diabolos same time - then lift carefully whole stack to air and wow! there you got 4 diabolo "contact suffle" or something like that - i dont know enough about dynamics so i cant tell right away will that massive object tilt and collaps easily (those diabolos have their own rotating speed and gyroscopical abilities but how that whole system will behave?!?)

i dont believe those magnet things.. (sorry..)

Re: My Idea...
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2008, 03:57:02 pm »
Oooh infinite sprinkler, not sure if it would work but very sweet aplication for the diabolo. Now someone get on making it ;)

Infinite Sprinkler already exists. Or infinite anti-sprinkler should i say.

kyo

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2008, 01:57:32 am »
Interesting thread, I like to see people thinking :)

Some issues however..

Cups spinning opposite directions = wobble, instability, incredibly quick precession..

One cup stopped one spinning = quick precession as well. Think of it as one cup trying to go somewhere, and having one foot nailed to the floor. When you release that cup, you will have stability problems until it can accelerate (it will due to the friction in the bearings)

A question about the original drawing. How do you put it together? You have a a hollow piece that has a piece trapped inside of it.. how'd it get there?

Bearings on the outer edges.. plastic bearings are light, yes, but they are also weak. They only have a fraction of the strength of steel bearings.. you'd smash them to bits in minutes with a few drops. Same goes for steel bearings really, you have a huge impact force when you have a high drop with something that weighs 250-300g and once they bend at all, you're done.

I think the effects you are all looking for -can- be done to some extent, but I'm not sure on the practicality of the ideas thus far.. now go prove me wrong :)

Kyle


Jussi

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2008, 08:42:07 am »
Bearings on the outer edges.. plastic bearings are light, yes, but they are also weak. They only have a fraction of the strength of steel bearings.. you'd smash them to bits in minutes with a few drops. Same goes for steel bearings really, you have a huge impact force when you have a high drop with something that weighs 250-300g and once they bend at all, you're done.

that will be problem in future.. i believe at this point one who have time and intrest to actually build these outer bearings wont throw it very high ;)

for mass production that ring should have similar elastic/deformation abilities (that topic is quite hard to my english) as diabolo itself.. same material would be fine..

Diabolo88

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2008, 01:49:12 am »
Liking the idea with the magnets. So if the diabolo repel by themselves you could maybe keep a 4d shuffle (or more) in the string just by placing them there timely and then not really be required to do anything (doesn´t even sound like diaboling)?

Wouldn´t this require though that you have some kind of generator inside the diabolo that converted the energy from the spin into electricity which in turn creates the magnetic field (I´m total crap at science so not entirely sure) ???. If that is the case, it should be pretty hard to make small enough to fit inside the cups. Also, this generator should be able to start at just the slightest spin since you wouldn´t exactly be able to wrapstart and throwstarts would be difficult to get smooth perhaps. Is this possible?

Wonder if it would be possible to do colliding patterns accurately (D1 pushes D2 up-D3 etc) with magnets? If they would react like I think I´m imagining you wouldn´t even need to drive the diabolos, just using the left hand to adjust height for the force in the "repelled throws" would be sufficient? What about magnets at the tip/bottom handles of the sticks as well for stopping or tricks?

Shaun

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2008, 05:58:29 am »
I don't think they're talking about electo-magnets, just the normal ones.

JimmyCords.

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2008, 09:13:11 am »
One thing you are forgetting here is that if u put magnets on the outside of the cups, the diabolos may repel one another such that you could keep a 4d shuffle going, IF they are in the same plane. Once they move out of alignment they wouldnt repel one another so that u could keep the shuffle going, they would repel in all different directions (up, down, forwards, backwards, left, right). It would probably be harder than doing a 4d shuffle without magnets. One thing you also have to take account of is the polarity of the magnets. As well as pushing the diabolos apart, they attract, but if you have it set up so each is identical in the layout of the magnets and they way the diabolo is facing, you could get past this.
Also an idea that was raised earlier, one with the dual cup things (one cup on the inside and one on the outside with bearings). Someone said that u could make the outside cups box shaped or triangle shaped. That wouldnt work, because if those cups are spinning (and even if they arent) it would screw up the aerodynamics of diabolo, thats why they use cones. I think the best idea so far is putting rims on the diabolos which are on bearings. That would work pretty well if u want to catch the diabolo and hold it while its spinning, but again it might screw up the aerodynamics.
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Ben.

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2008, 01:00:21 pm »
magnets are tricky things to get right. i had another spinning top ( i have quite a lot :)) and the basic principle was that you spun it on this strong magnetic base and it hovered in the air. i must have spent at least 6 hours fiddling with it and trying to get it to work but i could never get it exactly level. the point that i am trying to make is that 1. the magnets would have to be really strong to have any effect on the diabolos and to get any results the diabolos would have to be perfectly in line. i think that this idea is a bit too imaginative.

nev's idea was good because it allowed the diabolos to be left on the floor still spinning. lots of 2d vertax stuff could possibly start from having two spinning diabolos on the floor.

this is a great thread  :D



sasha

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2008, 01:15:27 pm »
All of you guys are really creative and smart, its a pleasure to read this  :D

I think Nev's idea is the most reasonable one.
Magnets would definetly give way to amazing tricks, but the costs and hassle wouldn't make it worthwhile.
Someone should really have a go at creating Nev's diabolo, it could be the next thing.
Im pretty sure that there are some forum members here who go to university with physics or something similar, maybe they should be consulted?

Sasha

looby

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2008, 02:38:11 pm »
This one's for Ben and anyone else that's interested.  It's the same magnet based top Ben was talking about.  The clip's been on the laptop for years now, hence looking about 12 years old :)

It works using three massive magnets on the the outside of the base with their field pointing upwards (bear with me).  By turning three dials on the edge of the base you adjust the direction of the field.  When you have them pointing at the exact same point the top will hover over the point, hence the lifting of the base to begin with.

Rennes July 10-17th 2011!

Crackers

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2008, 05:51:28 pm »
A friend of mine has one of these. I caould stare at them for hours  :P

Beni

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2008, 09:57:54 pm »
Same can be done with liquid nitrogen and a superconductor. If you happen to have liquid nitrogen spare :).

How about applying the magnetic spinning top idea to the amgnetic diabolo idea? That way you can get a bearing diabolo (with a magnetic axle, but not magnetic ball bearings) in vertax, allow it to hover over a really powerful magnet base at around shoulder height (I did say really powerful), start another diabolo up in vertax and pluck the first one out of the air and into a 2d vertax shuffle. This would be cool if you had a strong magnetic floor, repelling the diabolos so much they couldn't fall below chest height.

Beni

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William

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2008, 01:31:40 am »
repelling the diabolos so much they couldn't fall below chest height.
1) You must have a weird style if you never go below chest height in vertax. I'd go with knees or even just a few inches above the floor.
2)Would a floating diabolo loose speed? Stay at one speed (as S-fan) or even speed up?

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mellowscholar

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2008, 01:40:38 am »
Will, a floating diabolo won't lose too much speed if you just leave it there, exactly like a big version of loob's spinning top but if you're doing tricks and rubbing the string all over it i imagine it'd be taking the same amount of friction as usual (except maybe on the upper cup).

Although really really bloody impractical I think it would make for some cool vertax passing; like that sharpe stuff on the frozen lake but at chest height, and relatively slowly.

But I think that spinning top uses multiple magnets to keep it steady so it ends up staying in the same place hence making this whole fantasy completely useless.

Thank you, you've been great.

JimmyCords.

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2008, 09:02:21 am »
Now, if we could design a repulsor (an anti-gravity technology -[star wars ;) ]) and implement it into a diabolo, almost anything would be possible.......... So wat the hell are you doing reading this! Get out there and invent a repulsor!
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-Leo-

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Re: My Idea...
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2008, 10:04:39 am »
To be honest with all of these anti-grav floors and liquid nitrogen ideas it'd be easier just going to the moon.
Behind your back is your front.