Author Topic: 3 diabolo pioneers  (Read 8131 times)

ERIK da blue

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3 diabolo pioneers
« on: April 20, 2008, 11:42:27 am »
i was just wandering, who was the first person to master a 3 diabolo shuffle and when?
also some creators of 3 diabolo tricks

thanks
janion
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-Leo-

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2008, 11:49:26 am »
Guy Heathcote was the first to self start 3 diabolos, Trash invented the wrap start and I think it's fair to credit Baptiste with being the first to get a lot of tricks solid.
Behind your back is your front.

seán_

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2008, 06:11:27 pm »
I thought another French guy (Ludovich?) came up with the wrap start.

Some others that spring to mind.
Quentin blew everyone away when he released his practice video.
Ryo Yabe for the sun to stall with exits and for basically showing the high left hand method could look sweet.
Zack for the hover plus quite a few tricks (probably a lot more than people realise)
Tahia for the Box.


Crackers

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2008, 06:16:07 pm »
Ludovich came up with the wrap hover start

Diabolo88

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 02:33:34 pm »
Tony & JiBe for a lot of high siteswaps?

tommi

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 02:52:31 pm »
Tony & JiBe for a lot of high siteswaps?

I'd rather say Jibe & Priam. As far as I know Tony did start really doing siteswaps a bit later than them (not counting double piroettes as real siteswaping) But none the less he surely is a pioneer when it comes to three high tricks, all the piros and three behind the back and such.
 

lupii

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 05:53:48 pm »
Are there any Videos of those persons??

I would like to see them

Neil

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 10:14:37 pm »
out of curiosity, what method did Guy Heathcote use to start 3d?
i'd always assumed that the wrap start came first for some reason but then i know very little of the workings of 3d

-Leo-

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2008, 10:33:11 pm »
Guy used and still uses a throw start to my knowledge . Barnesy's site www.2diabolo.net has a video of it I seem to remember aswell.

EDIT: An interview that may be of interest is here:

http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=3010.0

 I remember I enjoyed reading it anyway.

-Leo
Behind your back is your front.

Arjan

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2008, 10:33:46 pm »
Come on guy's, that not so long ago!

Guy Heathcote was the first with 3 low.
Trash was probably the first on this side of the water with his 3 low?
Probably some asian girl was the first with 3 high, otherwise, Jochen Schell I believe??
JiBe, Priam and Baptiste defenitly started with exploring siteswaps.
 
Correct me if wrong.

Diabolo Bro

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2008, 10:38:31 pm »
schell was the first european to do 3. I do recall a video showing three low being in existance in the 80s in china and it was probably done before that.
98 percent of the population will die at some point in their lives.

-Leo-

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2008, 10:42:28 pm »
Guy was the first to self start 3D. -He is also European aswell (or been on the British scene for a long time.)
Behind your back is your front.

GbH

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2008, 01:13:19 am »
OK, maybe I can shed some more light on this.

The first time I ever saw diabolo done at all was on a Christmas TV special.  This must have been in around 1986-7 time.  It showed a Chinese troupe performing with the traditional chinese yo-yos and one of the tricks that was featured was 3-low.  They did this by getting 3 people to speed the diabolos up, then two of them would throw the diabolos into the pattern.  The person actually doing it barely moved - the diabolos didn't appear to have been driven at all, they were just turning under their own momentum.  The pattern lasted a very short time, then the diabolos were thrown back out of the pattern.  However short, it was the one trick that I really liked - it was almost 'proper' juggling, so I guess it wasn't surprising that it stuck in my mind.

Soon after seeing that, I discovered the juggling scene, purchased my first diabolo and eventually found myself at the European Convention in Bradford (1988).  Aside from the developments going on with 2 (I've written a bit about this elsewhere), there was a Chinese troupe there too.  I saw them trying to replicate the 3-low trick there, but with western diabolos.  They got nowhere near, even though they seemed to know the same technique that I'd seen on the TV. 

Because of what I'd seen, I guess I must have started trying to learn 3-low some while after that.  I don't remember the point where I first started trying.  However, I do remember thinking that the Chinese method probably wasn't going to work well with rubber diabolos and started trying to figure out a way that would be better.  Thus, because the throw start seemed to work for 2, I stuck with that.  I'm not sure that anyone even knew what a wrap start was back then, even with 2 diabolos.  Some people remember seeing me getting practice runs going during the period 1990-1993.  However, for me, my real breakthrough came at the 1993 British convention, which was when I started keeping runs going for extended periods (I guess it would have been 10-20 second runs).  I'd never seen or heard of anyone else doing that before and it wasn't until the MFP came along, a lot of years later, that I saw anyone else able to replicate it. 

I think that Jochen must have learned 3-high during the period when he was training with Todd Strong - I guess this would have been something like 1989-90 (correct me if I'm wrong).  I presume he was the first to get 3-high, although a number of others seem to follow shortly afterwards.

During the years between 1993 and the emergence of the MFP, I certainly came accross a number of people that were trying to learn 3-low.  Some used the throw start, whilst others were experimenting with other methods.  However, at the last two EJCs that I ever attended, Grenoble (1999) and Edinburgh (2000), still no-one else was really getting it to work properly.  Incidently, at Grenoble, I remember someone timing me doing a minute run with 3-low, the first time I remember achieving that with someone specifically timing me.

Overall, though, once I'd started to get 3-low, my progress was somewhat patchy.  At the time, I used Renegade diabolos with very thick nylon string and long handsticks - a very different set-up to what is standard now.  Getting the string right was a nightmare - it would start off feeling bad, it would then wear in a bit and become useable, before then wearing out and becoming useless for 3.  This issue with the string was very frustrating and frequently killed my enthusiasm for making any more progress.  In fact, it took me quite a long time to even realise that the state of the string made so much difference.  Also, because I wasn't really convinced that I had the best method of keeping the pattern going, I'd try different approaches, which would often just make things worse.  Again, unbelievably frustrating...

As I was doing shows with my regular set-up, I wasn't too keen to change things around too much.  However, I did experiment occasionally, though, and a period when I was using heavy 'Flair' axles on my Renegades certainly produced what must have been some of the first 3-low tricks - a stick-switch sun was probably the one that I managed to repeat the most times.  Unfortunately, the heavy axles made the actual shuffle (as well as my regular 1d and 2d tricks) much more difficult, so I soon lost interest and reverted back to the regular Renegade axles, which meant the tricks no longer worked.  I've got no idea what year this would have been - maybe Dave Proctor remembers when he, himself, was experimenting with Flair axles, as it was probably at about the same time (it was him that showed me that they would fit...).

I don't remember the year, but I do remember seeing Ludovic when he was first starting learn the wrap start.  He was staying in the UK at the time and visited my house on a few occasions.  I was amazed at what he was trying to do - I'd never heard of anyone else trying it - particularly since he was using plastic fishing-line as string - but I think it was obvious then that the method was going to work, sooner or later.  I think I've still got a VHS tape somewhere, with him trying to do it in my garden.  Obviously, some while after that, Ludo got the wrap start sorted, as did the MFP guys.  The rest is well documented. 

These days, I've given up with the Renegades, the long wooden sticks and the thick string.  Upon converting to the more modern set-up, I pretty much had to learn 3-low again from scratch.  I remember meeting Priam in the transition period and could barely do anything at all  :( .  Yes, I can still do the throw start, but much more recently have learned the wrap start too (finally....).   

So, there you have it.  The Chinese players (or, at least, one of them) were most certainly the first to do manage a 3-low pattern.  As far as I know, I was the first to successfully self start 3-low and, perhaps more significantly, the first to maintain the pattern by moving the sticks and adding spin.  I'm not quite sure what does or doesn't count as being the first 3-low trick, but I think my stick-switch suns may well have been it (sadly, I know of no evidence for this one...).  Lastly, it's probable that I was the first to do the first 3-low run that lasted longer than a minute.   

Hope this has been of some interest...


Guy

Ceri-Anne

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2008, 08:50:23 am »
Interesting story and very clarifying. Thanks. :)
I wasn't aware of the apparently huge development that diabolo equipment has gone through. Using fishing-line as a string; amazing!

mofro

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2008, 09:58:05 am »
quality history lesson guy.

(so much i didnt know!?)

mogfro
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tommi

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2008, 01:10:57 pm »
The first time I ever saw diabolo done at all was on a Christmas TV special.  This must have been in around 1986-7 time.  It showed a Chinese troupe performing with the traditional chinese yo-yos and one of the tricks that was featured was 3-low.  They did this by getting 3 people to speed the diabolos up, then two of them would throw the diabolos into the pattern.

I suppose it was something like this? (probably has been posted here before, but fits quite well to the topic)

GbH

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2008, 05:19:37 pm »
I suppose it was something like this? (probably has been posted here before, but fits quite well to the topic)

Yes, something like that.  It wasn't the same performance that I saw, but, from what I remember, pretty much the same technique. 

aaro

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2008, 05:37:58 pm »
Oh the days... almost stopped doing diabolo when i saw that show with the chinease girls, i was completely overwhelmed by the sad 3sec run with 3d low, even if it was with 2 assistants :)
I remember a guy(not Guy probably) doing quite traditional circus number ending with few throws of 4d with assistant, particularly funny with that show was the giant diabolo he was using as a prop stand, at some point he was also spinning it, with the help of small ladder :) After a trick he used to take a medal from his pocket(quite classic thing to do)
Anyone know who this was and what the year could have been? I saw it maybe around 2004 from really old looking VHS.

Jem

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2008, 05:56:31 pm »
Thanks very much for the historic insight Guy, most interesting.

Diabolo Bro

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Re: 3 diabolo pioneers
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2008, 11:22:22 pm »
That performance was Guangzhou Troupe from Cirque Du Demain in 1984, and it appeared to even be a christmas special, could be close  to the same. ;)
98 percent of the population will die at some point in their lives.