Author Topic: Jugglers are geniuses?  (Read 12355 times)

Adamer15

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Jugglers are geniuses?
« on: May 23, 2008, 10:25:19 pm »
I read somewhere that jugglers are genuises in there own way and i tryed to test this and my tests prooves we are...

I know you guys are thinking "Then what is this topic about a**hole"

Well i just wanted to make you people aware of it because the second i realised it learning new tricks became easyer and tricks that i couldnt do before are on the edge of doing

Just think about it this way, We are smart (Period)
This helped me i hope it helps you

~Adam
Will eat for Diabolo!

Alex!

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2008, 10:29:39 pm »
I know what im thinking
STOP! HAMMER 'TIJN

Shaun

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2008, 12:40:27 am »
Your genaralising. I don't think all jugglers are smart.
Need to see evidence (Period)

JimmyCords.

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2008, 04:01:40 am »
Your genaralising. I don't think all jugglers are smart.
Need to see evidence (Period)
Agreed. You dont need to be smart to juggle, just have to have good coordination. And it also depends how you define genius. Jugglers are geniuses at juggling, but they mightn't be geniueses at maths or astrophysics or english.
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Eric Moffett

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2008, 04:55:00 am »
Well think about it, how many people in their hobbies, or professions keep learning at the same rate we do? Just the amount of information we process to learn a new trick must be tremendous!
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Shaun

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2008, 05:24:54 am »
Read up about Howard Gardner's Multiple Intelligences. Jugglers would generally be high in bodily-kinesthetic intelligence.

Linguistic intelligence (words)
Logical-mathematical intelligence (number/reasoning)
Spatial intelligence (pictures)
Bodily-Kinesthetic intelligence (body)
Musical intelligence (music)
Interpersonal intelligence (people)
Intrapersonal intelligence (self)
Naturalist intelligence (nature)

Squiggle

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2008, 06:47:53 am »
I'm a genius.


Jussi

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2008, 07:11:37 am »
Read up about Howard Gardner's Multiple Intelligences. Jugglers would generally be high in bodily-kinesthetic intelligence.
Logical-mathematical intelligence (number/reasoning)

dont know about genious, but people with logical-mathematical intelligence (or intrest to mathematics/technology) seems to understand and like juggling more than people usually.. siteswaps are maybe one reason.. shapes of juggling patterns are another.. diabolo has also its own technical nature..

MIT's (The Massachusetts Institute of Technology) juggling club was founded in 1970 and is the oldest "drop in" juggling club in continuous operation in the world. I study in Tampere university of technology and we have quite big juggling club - other universities and schools in finland dont have juggling clubs at all.. students in our university are good audience also, maybe its easier to understand what diaboloing/juggling is all about if you think logical-mathematical way.. ;)

JimmyCords.

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2008, 08:39:20 am »
Well think about it, how many people in their hobbies, or professions keep learning at the same rate we do? Just the amount of information we process to learn a new trick must be tremendous!
Musicians are one that I can think of.
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Aaron Z

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2008, 09:13:25 am »
Musicians only need to remember a certain combination of keys to make different notes, and there aren't that many to learn (I used to be a musician and it was pretty easy to learn the keys/notes), especially if you only play 1 or 2 instruments.
Once a musician knows HOW to play their instrument, it's just memorizing which order to play them in to make music.

But then again, that's pretty much what diabolo'ing is; learning some core movements, then applying them to make tricks. Of course, the learning curve for diaboloists can be quite a bit more extreme.

Anyways, on topic:
I don't think all diaboloists ARE geniuses, but possess some personal qualities that help them perform in academic areas: patience, concentration, persistence, mad skills etc.



 

Adamer15

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2008, 09:57:05 am »
Well think about it, how many people in their hobbies, or professions keep learning at the same rate we do? Just the amount of information we process to learn a new trick must be tremendous!

This is what i ment

I didnt mean were really smart in general

I ment were smart in juggling and processing information in mass scales

And if you want evidence then try thinking about your tricks and get down to the trick statistics

Because once you do that you will see the massive amount of variables in the trick
Will eat for Diabolo!

tommi

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2008, 10:14:43 am »
Once a musician knows HOW to play their instrument, it's just memorizing which order to play them in to make music.

How about composing music, or creating a new way of playing an instrument? Hell, I myself am not musical person at all (in way of playing music) but I think music can be bit more complex than just memorizing order of notes. But this is bit off the topic..

And about Gardner's theory, I think besides bodily-kinesthetic and logical-mathematical also visual-spatial intelligence is important in juggling. Visualizing patterns, throw-heights in siteswap patterns and simply understanding what looks good. I thing genius is quite a strong word, I can't think of many jugglers I'd call that.

But as I've been reading psychology lately, I think Robert J. Sternberg's Triarchic Theory of Intelligence is a nice way of approaching intelligence in juggling. According to the theory intelligence consists of three parts: analytical, creative and practical. Example of analytical intelligent juggler could be someone who knows a lot about juggling (siteswap or other theories, history of juggling and juggling culture in general) but doesn't necessarily have lot of own ideas. Then again a creative person can find new ways of seeing/using the knowledge they already has. Practically intelligent people can actually apply they knowledge in practice. Really rough (and bad) overview but maybe someone gets the idea. All three parts are related to each other and being good at just one might not make you seem too intelligent. But also part of intelligence is that you know what you are good at and use those skills to compensate the areas which are not your strong ones.

Aah.. Long post which is not well written at all, since I'm in hurry. Also theories about expertise are pretty interesting when it comes to juggling, might relate to stuff Eric is talking about^. But gotta run now.

Juggle smart people.

JimmyCords.

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2008, 11:17:12 am »
How about composing music, or creating a new way of playing an instrument? Hell, I myself am not musical person at all (in way of playing music) but I think music can be bit more complex than just memorizing order of notes. But this is bit off the topic..
Exactly. For Example Tom Morello (the Guitarist from Rage Against the Machine) does a hell of a lot more than just memorizing chords etc. He comes up with completely new ways to play a guitar, and he makes a guitar sound like anything but a guitar. Sorry for the tangent, I just love Rage. Anyway, I think Tommi's post has hit it.

A definition of Genius from Wikipedia: "A genius is a person of great intelligence, who shows an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work. Geniuses - or genii (see Etymology) - always show strong individuality and imagination, and are not only intelligent, but unique and innovative."
If we use this definition, we can conclude that not all jugglers are geniuses, as there are many jugglers (and diaboloists) out there that aren't creative, (while there are many that are creative) they just follow other peoples creativity (im one of these people at this stage). And we can also conclude that there are some diaboloists that are geniuses at diaboloing, people who are constantly creating new moves, styles and being individual in their diaboloing (langerz).


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-Leo-

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2008, 03:42:43 pm »
Hmm. Sure it's easy to say if one person is intelligent or not but generalising that all jugglers are is quite a bold thing to say and maybe built on a lack of fact IMO.

I'd say I'm intelligent but I'm a bit of an idiot as well (No, that is not a paradox.) I think it's possible to be intelligent at a particular subject or area and not so good at other things. -We could be 'intelligent' at diabolo but not at other things.

Some interesting points from this thread, I especially like Tommi's thoughts.

-Leo
..................
This post was just brought to you by a guy who got drunk last summer and had a bet for a fiver that he could eat a bar of margerine. Intelligent right?
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ERIK da blue

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2008, 08:07:59 pm »
nearly all jugglers i have talked to seem to be good at maths.
also jugglers seem to be nice people, I've never met a [good] juggler who i don't like or doesn't like me.
(little bit off topic but true)
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Diabolo88

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2008, 01:45:29 am »
Haven´t read the whole thread yet (it´s late so I´ll do it tomorrow) and probably won´t have anything good to add to the conversation anyway but just want to say there seems to be some interesting thoughts in here.

Shaun

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2008, 02:09:22 am »
I often hear teachers talking about the fact that juggling helps develop both sides of the brain, which might flow onto the impression that jugglers are intelligent.

Dracodragon

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2008, 05:10:48 am »
At a local juggling club meeting, i remember talking to someone about how it seems that most all jugglers are computer programmers, or some computer experts of the sort. Haha... and I am found guilty of this statement...
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Shaun

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2008, 05:32:56 am »
Most of the jugglers I know are performers, but there does seem to be a lot of computer programmers. I think a couple of the MFP are too.

Adamer15

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2008, 12:58:25 pm »
Wow your right..... Ive never seen a none friendly [good] juggler in my life....

Except me...  ;D

Well back to topic

We don't have to be good in math to be declared intelligent...

We are intelligent in juggling and processing information

Doesn't mean we cant be good at math but I'm saying that we are very smart, because if you take a guy who never done diabolo in his life to do diabolo you realise that you DO need to be smart to do it
Will eat for Diabolo!

Shaun

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2008, 12:04:08 am »
because if you take a guy who never done diabolo in his life to do diabolo you realise that you DO need to be smart to do it
I still don't think your right. I've taught many people diabolo, and the ones who pick it up quicker are those who are sporty and more coordinated (especially remote Indigenous people! who unfortunately aren't the smartest, academically). Whereas the 'smart' people/kids throw a ball or diabolo up and run away from it :D They just take a bit longer to learn it.

William

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2008, 02:24:02 am »
I agree. They sure is.
I find myself very intullgent.
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CirqueKid

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2008, 05:11:42 am »
Of course, intelligence is relative.  For example, you might live in a small town and be the smartest person in it, if you move to a big city you'll find you're towards the bottom of the chart.  And then if you bring in the whole 'multiple intelligence' theories it gets way more complicated.

As for the 'all jugglers have mathematical intelligence', I'm afraid I'm not exactly a mathematician.  While I am okay at it, and get A's and B's in it at school, I'm waaay more right brained than left, and enjoy using my imagination way more than doing mindless calculations. 

(Quick fun fact:  If you want to find out if you're left or right brained, fold your hands, and notice which thumb is on top.  If your left thumb lies naturally on top, you're more creative and right brained.  Or, if your right thumb falls naturally on top, you're more mathematical and left brained.)
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JimmyCords.

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2008, 05:24:14 am »
(Quick fun fact:  If you want to find out if you're left or right brained, fold your hands, and notice which thumb is on top.  If your left thumb lies naturally on top, you're more creative and right brained.  Or, if your right thumb falls naturally on top, you're more mathematical and left brained.)
Fail. Im definitely not creative, do extension maths and physics yet my left thumb was on top. Fail.
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JJesse

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2008, 08:52:31 am »
Hmm... I think it has nothing to do with intelligence. It shows which handed you are. Well its just my random quess.

Duncan

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2008, 09:26:20 am »
There's always the classic response:

After hours of frustration try to learn one trick (let's say 3low suns for example), you have to really wonder how smart someone is for devoting a hundred hours drilling one trick that lasts less than 2 seconds and impresses less than 10 people nowadays.

"Pfft, suns? So last year", or "they kinda went in a circle."

Jugglers are stupid if you ask me ;)

-Duncan

JimmyCords.

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2008, 10:28:07 am »
And also when first practicing suicides and the stick comes round and hits you in the hand (which really hurts), an intelligent person would walk away there as they learnt their lesson with the pain. For example a puppy goes and touches an electric fence and gets zapped. The puppy learns and doesn't do that again.

But with diaboloists they keep trying even though it still causes them pain.

It could be the desire to get the trick right and impress 10 or so people like Duncan said, or it could be that we are just stupid...stupider than a puppy.
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CirqueKid

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2008, 11:00:19 pm »
Quote
Hmm... I think it has nothing to do with intelligence. It shows which handed you are. Well its just my random quess.


Yeah, I heard about it on the BBC website, and they supposedly scientifically tested it, but I'm sure it can't be 100% accurate.  However, I've tried it with a few of the people I know and it was spot on.  It's kind of weird, because it seems totally irrelevant, but I guess they discovered a correlation somehow.
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Aaron Z

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2008, 12:30:04 pm »
I don't like you.

Whooh, record breaker!

Myke

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2008, 12:25:58 pm »
I don't like you.

Whooh, record breaker!

no it just means you're not a juggler.
Thank you, thank you.

Martijn

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2008, 10:34:40 am »
Norbi's really clever.
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William

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2008, 11:08:50 am »
I r teh jeenyus.
duz diz ansar yor kwestyun?
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CirqueKid

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2008, 07:01:54 am »
Actually, anyone who Leet Speaks has already drained every instance of genius-ness out of them with every second of video game play they endure.

In other words... Epic Fail!
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JimmyCords.

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2008, 09:05:58 am »
Leet speak drains geniusness? d035n+ 1+ 4dd +0 y0u|2 g3n10u5n355? I mean being able to speak with symbols and numbers must take a bollocks load of intelligence.
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Squiggle

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2008, 12:09:15 pm »
Actually, anyone who Leet Speaks has already drained every instance of genius-ness out of them with every second of video game play they endure.

In other words... Epic Fail!

Nope.

I know of many people who talk like that, alot are very smart and have good jobs. But when on gaming/forums they choose to speak like that, it's weird. 


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CirqueKid

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2008, 02:41:52 am »
1337 =
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Squiggle

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2008, 03:16:33 am »
And lol cats are old, your point is?

JimmyCords.

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2008, 06:27:28 am »
Leet speak does not = fail. It just further mastery of both maths AND the english language.
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CirqueKid

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2008, 08:37:07 am »
All right, I'll admit that I have nothing against Leet Speak, it's just fun to make fun of.  And also, most of the time I see things like that it's because the kids can't really spell in English, so they just make up shortcuts, and then fill every other word with "lolz" "OMG!" "IMO" "rofflecopter!", and it's more of a joke than anything.  ::)  And really we jugglers are better than that, but I had to find somewhere to post my fail pic!  ;)

P.S. And that wasn't just a lol cat, that was a lol cat and a fail pic, a double whammy of an internet image!
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Funty

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2008, 10:49:29 am »
I'll admit that I have nothing against Leet Speak

i however do. if everybody who spoke/wrote 1337 speak in everyday life were dead then the world would be a smarter and better place.

Matt?

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2008, 11:11:01 am »
i however do. if everybody who spoke/wrote 1337 speak in everyday life were dead then the world would be a smarter and better place.

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The Void

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2008, 11:59:22 am »
The phrasing of this thread title amuses me.

Haven´t read the whole thread yet (it´s late so I´ll do it tomorrow) and probably won´t have anything good to add to the conversation anyway but just want to say there seems to be some interesting thoughts in here.

This answer amuses me greatly.

But then I'm a disingenuous genius....

The Void
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Ethan

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2008, 10:36:05 pm »
it should count for something, that we can sustain several objects in the air at a time, if only we could switch th SAT's with juggling :D
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Dan

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2008, 11:23:07 pm »
Scanned through most of the short comments but my input comes straight from the original post.

I'm intelligent and have been throughout education (right from a young age) but as i grew older i gained a lack of concentration.  Mainly because i found school boring.  Juggling helped me gain that concentration level back because i enjoyed it and the progression curve up until 3d is insanely fast, it keep me interested the whole time.  Now ive hit a barrier with 3d ive pretty much lost interest in diabolo and moved onto other things using up my time (mainly paid stuff :P) E.g. I love doing fibreglass projects at the moment which takes the same concentration if not more sometimes when doing it.

Anyway theres my ramble on about stuff, have fun with it.



Dan

Paino

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Re: Jugglers are geniuses?
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2008, 09:33:34 pm »
not all juglers are smart im dislexic and in a resent english test i got an f and my taecher said he was being fair to give me that