Author Topic: Creativity discussion  (Read 6257 times)

zwiggelbig

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Creativity discussion
« on: March 12, 2009, 10:38:20 am »
Hello I was thinking about something of creativity.

Now some of you have such a huge creativity when it comes to making up new tricks.

Ok don't see the following thing as me complaining about my own lack of creativity.

Ok whenever I am diaboloing I keep reapeating all the tricks I already know. If I want to learn a new trick I can only learn it if I see a tutorial about it or a normal video or a tekst version of a trick. Somehow I just don't have the ability to make something up myself! If I would have never seen a tutorial or a video about a infinite suicide I would never have found it out! However its a trick that if you think about it its so logic. You just let one stick flying around it. And lets take for example 2 diabolo's high. Its a pure logic thing. You just juggle with diabolo's in the air everyone coudl think of that if you've never seen it.. But not me. I would have never found a way to practice it.

For some reason I can't find out new tricks or just make up my own moves out of a trick. But I keep seeing others doing 2 diabolos and doing the most creative stuff their is.

Now is my question: Do you think that everybody has the creativity to make things up their self? Or are their people that just can't do it for some scientistic reason?

Ramon

Hathaway

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2009, 10:42:11 am »
Stop thinking about it. Simple. Put on some 'tunes' pick up those diabs and go for it. You don't even have to think about making up something new think about the way a trick is done and see if you can't tweak it a little bit.

Bassically you are trying to over think it. Just enjoy your diabing.
Alex abuses flys!

Mark BMC

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2009, 11:09:25 am »
I have often thought this myself, especially when I visit funty spink and looby. They just seem to be able to think out of the box more than me.

I think its down to skill level. If your technique is very solid and you really grasp wraps and your string control is very good its so much easier to be creative. When your technique is solid your mind is more free to think of interesting tricks. Nev is a prime example of this, all his new tricks come from being able to do the basic concept very cleanly and accurately giving him the space to play. [I could be wrong and being a modest chap he will probobly disagree]

I'm getting their with one D in terms of movement, I'm still pritty clueless when it comes to understanding the entries to fancy intergrals and mini gen's.  With two its still very much just doing all the tricks I know in a combo and trying to keep it smooth and aligned . So the more you practice the more creative your diabolo will become, In my opinion.

Diabolo Dodson

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2009, 11:12:54 am »
I suck at being creative, i always invent tricks that have already been done. I have some creative days, but i mostly stick to technical stuff, which im sure when i have solid will give me the freedom to be creative. I have lots of ideas at the moment, i simply dont have the skills to do them yet.

Hathaway

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2009, 11:18:49 am »
I suck at being creative, i always invent tricks that have already been done.
I've got a feeling it was Nev (may be wrong?) that said its still as satisfying doing that! So what if its been done if you came up with yourself whats the problem? Still a good acheivment.

BMC is right, when you get the basics down then the creativity will just flow, I find that when I have finally learnt a trick spot on as in my own opinion I couldn't get it any better, then you see gaps to release a stick or grab a piece of string that you before would not have noticed.

I also find I'm more creative when I diabolo naked.
Alex abuses flys!

Martijn

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2009, 12:25:43 pm »
What Mr. BMC put so very well - that.

I've got a feeling it was Nev (may be wrong?) that said its still as satisfying doing that!

Yeah, Nev mentioned that recently. I've discussed it in my blog posts too (the first one to be accurate). Have a look at those, they might help you to free your mind.
download Made in Taiwan at www.arjangroenendijk.nl

Ken

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2009, 12:28:10 pm »
think about the way a trick is done and see if you can't tweak it a little bit.

This is pretty much what I try to do... take all the individual aspects of any given move and play around with them, just to see what happens.

Real big emphasis on 'play', though. I try not to take it too seriously, as I feel I'm more productive that way (it makes a pleasant change to the frustrating 3D, too :-D).

nev

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2009, 02:04:34 pm »
I think everyone has the ability to be creative given the right learning environment.
It does sometimes happen that I get a Eureka moment and think up new stuff entirely in my head, but (for me at least), most creative tricks are the result of an evolutionary process.

True, if you spend all your time practicing the same old tricks or learning from videos, then its going to be a little harder to be creative, but even when learning a new trick from a video, you are pushing yourself to try new things.  When doing this you will undoubtedly make a few mistakes along the way - how you interpret these mistakes is important - one or more of them could easily lead to something new (to you at least).
 
Two of the main ingredients for creativity are unpredictability and variety.

Unpredictability leads to mistakes.   For me, a good 90% of the creative process is realising which mistakes are worth pursuing.  Each time you make a mistake and end in a tangled mess, don't just dismiss it and start again, think about if you can easily repeat that same mess, and if so, is there is a way out of it (any way will do at first) - eventually you'll start to see patterns emerging where the attempted exit from your mess will lead you to a familiar position of exit / start / middle of something you already know.

Variety - So how do you become more creative - have some fun and make more mistakes - don't do mad with it, but try to spend at least a little bit of your practice time trying totally new things - add an extra wrap, let go of a stick, what happens if that one goes inside/outside/hits the string etc and just see what happens - chances are, you'll sometimes find yourself in a familiar mistake position from which you've already found an exit.  But the main reason for doing this (apart from having fun), is that it gets your mind working in a creative way so that the Eureka stuff happens more often.

You don't need to have solid skills at all to be creative (mine are far from solid) - though it will speed up the process of trial and error if you can replicate your errors.

read Martijn's Creativity Blog
Now go have some FUN instead of learning that new must have trick - maybe you'll find a better one
www.Diabolomoves.co.uk/diabolos/ - shop for Sundia diabolos, Handsticks & String

Martijn

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2009, 02:27:17 pm »
You are a wise man, Nev.

Watch this too, it's interesting:

Elizabeth Gilbert: A new way to think about creativity
download Made in Taiwan at www.arjangroenendijk.nl

Sean

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2009, 03:32:45 pm »
All good stuff. If you're interested in thinking about and enhancing your creativity (which it seems you are) then you owe it to yourself to go get this book from your library or buy it:
The Creative Habit by Twyla Tharp

Ben.

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2009, 05:37:16 pm »
take for example 2 diabolo's high. Its a pure logic thing. You just juggle with diabolo's in the air everyone coudl think of that if you've never seen it.. But not me. I would have never found a way to practice it.

For some reason I can't find out new tricks or just make up my own moves out of a trick. But I keep seeing others doing 2 diabolos and doing the most creative stuff their is.

Now is my question: Do you think that everybody has the creativity to make things up their self? Or are their people that just can't do it for some scientistic reason?

Firstly Rammy, i think that 2 high is a really basic and simple concept and most people probably would be able to create it, including you.

secondly, after seeing some videos of you (your performance and others) i get a sense that you can do the tricks for example mini gen but you don't have the 'tweakage' abilities. what i mean by that is that you have to have a certain skill level with said trick to be able to land it in different situations like from an integral etc and not just in one situation. you get me? like to become creative with say a 2d shuffle, you will usually have to be able to maintain the shuffle in different situations, moving it about, corrections, big shuffle small shuffle etc...
That isn't a dig at you but all i am saying is that you have to have a firm understanding of the trick to be able to achieve original tricks.

thinking of original tricks will just come. you need to have a good understanding of different mounts, wraps and knots i think.

Alex!

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2009, 07:23:24 pm »
The greater knowledge of tricks you have, the more options open to you, not just in ability, but in creativity.

I always find it useful to just jam to some music. Try wierd ideas, tricks you don't expect to work, ideas that are so ridiculous you laugh. Eventually it will lead to something. In a way, just be silly, mess around. Also, try to suprise yourself; do little tweaks (half turn, 360, catch behind your back, on body part, suicide, slack, backside, wrap) Do them without thinking what will happen, make them unexpected to yourself and just see where it leads.
STOP! HAMMER 'TIJN

GbH

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2009, 11:45:01 pm »
Hmm, reading through this thread, I can't help but notice that there seems to be a general assumption that the point of diabolo-creativity is simply to create new tricks.  I don't see much mention of using creativity to build complete routines, yet surely that's the aspect with the most possibilities and the most satisfying conclusion?

Personally, I also think the process of creating a unique routine is a much easier process, as you have more elements to throw into the mix (theme, story, auxillary props, music, movement, humour...) and thus a better chance of coming up with something that's uniquely your own.  Also, if you're concentrating on building a routine as a whole, it's also quite possible that you'll find yourself doing something new technically, not so much for the sake of it, but because the structure of the routine seems to demand something that you might never have considered worthwhile.


Guy

mike.

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2009, 01:50:23 am »
Hmm, reading through this thread, I can't help but notice that there seems to be a general assumption that the point of diabolo-creativity is simply to create new tricks.  I don't see much mention of using creativity to build complete routines, yet surely that's the aspect with the most possibilities and the most satisfying conclusion?

good point guy, there is also no mention of applying creativity to modifying tricks.

i believe that tijn' had a blog post about this...personally, i like to take a trick and then go through all of the different scenarios that could happen. throw in some luck and a little bit of ingenuity and you have a great modified trick that is an original in its own respect.
can't believe its not butter

Hathaway

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2009, 08:00:10 am »
You don't even have to think about making up something new think about the way a trick is done and see if you can't tweak it a little bit.
I find that when I have finally learnt a trick spot on as in my own opinion I couldn't get it any better, then you see gaps to release a stick or grab a piece of string that you before would not have noticed.
This is pretty much what I try to do... take all the individual aspects of any given move and play around with them, just to see what happens.
Alex abuses flys!

Martijn

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2009, 09:51:06 am »
Thanks for your contribution Guy, you are absolutely right. Creativity is a present factor in all things diabolo. From small tweaks (for which it seems I'm the only one who notices these ^^) and combinations to entire routines and performances.

However, I suspect that most forum members are plain hobbyists like me and are more likely to focus on coming up with new tricks over performing. That might explain the focus of this thread.

i believe that tijn' had a blog post about this...
I'm sorry to say, but that was one of the blog posts that wasn't about creativity (it's not even labeled so :P) The Fair Trade article is rather about the community.
download Made in Taiwan at www.arjangroenendijk.nl

mike.

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2009, 12:44:03 pm »
once again, i have been bamboozled by my mind. sorry hath.

and martijn, i was referencing your blog post because it shows how tricks can be modified, i think you had one on creativity too?
can't believe its not butter

Martijn

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2009, 12:58:46 pm »
and martijn, i was referencing your blog post because it shows how tricks can be modified

Yeah sure, I took the example of a trick being developed. The emphasis of Fair Trade lays on how awesome our community is though. It's no problem, I'm honoured to be mentioned!

And yes, I have written a few articles about creativity as well - mainly ways to stimulate it.
download Made in Taiwan at www.arjangroenendijk.nl

-Leo-

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2009, 11:24:40 am »
Anything creative I've come up with is usually the result of adding a spin, letting go of a stick or throwing a slack and then just seeing what happens and what can be done from there.
Behind your back is your front.

zwiggelbig

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2009, 07:25:04 pm »
Hey guys and girls, sorry for not responding but I had a trainingsweekend for a trainee spot for school. I don't have much time now, but I shall post my responses tomorrow =) And thanks for everyone that contributed in this topic!

Ramon

zwiggelbig

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2009, 08:55:41 am »
Hey everyone thanks so much! Alot of your responses were so usefull!
And to the qoute of Nev. You are right! If you think of something all by yourself then it doesn't mather it already exists it will keep on satisfying you!

I once figured a continous mini genocide all by myself and I got so happy!

And yesterday I created something all by myself! Its such a stupid trick but that doesn't mather I used my creativity and created something new just by adding a simple thing =)

I'm gonna try to create mistakes on purpose and see what comes from it. And trow more suicides in a trick, a piroute, a extra wrap and see what I'll get out of it.

Alex!

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2009, 07:27:23 pm »
I'm gonna try to create mistakes on purpose
Is it a mistake if it's done on purpose?  ;)
STOP! HAMMER 'TIJN

PPM

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2009, 11:57:58 am »
About 2 months ago I was able to attend a fantastic lecture about "De La Sérendipité" (Serendipity is the effect by which one accidentally discovers something fortunate, especially while looking for something else entirely.).

I know it's not 100% related with juggling, acctual it was also not real linked with my job but the conntend is/was that great that I would like to share it. Well it's all obvious stuff but mostly we are not aware of it! For me it was a realy good thing to rethink and try to have a look (even if it's only a deeper one) on the unexpected

Here the link to Wikipedia with some future infos about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serendipity
There exsista also a very good book written by Pek van Andel about this topic (unfortuneate only in Frensh at the moment)
De La Sérendipité ; Pek van Andel - Danièle Bourcier ; L'ACT MEM ; ISBN-978-2-35513-018-2

He's telling you not to do mistakes on pourpous (they may be some which you do frecently and don't dedect it (e.g. the Ringer-solution ; the technician made it with tap water insted of distiled water but the scientis thought it was distilled wat. Afterwouds it was discovered, that this solution only perfom that well due to tha fack, that some trace-elements and salts were present)) but try to learn out of your "mistaces"

Well wath i would like to tell you with this post: play around and be open for new and unexpected things. Take those (mistaces drops unhumen moves etc) as chance got get somthing new

(once you get a little more in thouch with thes theme you will see, that a lot of very important discoveries (which a new tirck is as well) were made by accident, systematic errors (unknow at the moment of doing) or even jokes...)

So let's be creative

And yes everyone can be creative

jwockydwb

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2009, 09:57:56 pm »
... more likely to focus on coming up with new tricks over performing.

I'd like to add that somewhere between new tricks and complete routines are also short (or not so short) combos. Even if you don't perform professionally, you likely don't go through a normal practice session if there are friends/family watching, you're going to perform to some degree or another by showing off some tricks and combos. Creativity in combos can be just as rewarding as coming up with 'new tricks', and can even lead to creativity with individual tricks as you learn different ways to handle/perform the trick (ala modifications, as mentioned earlier).

As an aside, I believe that truly new tricks may as well be a myth. Anything you come up with has been done before. All you can hope for is to be the first to document it.

Hathaway

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2009, 12:39:33 am »
As an aside, I believe that truly new tricks may as well be a myth. Anything you come up with has been done before. All you can hope for is to be the first to document it.

Nah, I don't personally think that is correct. I feel that plenty of stuff people are coming up with is new, take all the intergrals that came out of last year! Not to mention people getting solid things with 3...
Alex abuses flys!

Marijn

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2009, 12:29:43 pm »
You can also be creative by just doing your thing with a style that is very distinct(-ive?). But that is just my thought.
''I have been practising some basic 2d suicide stuff to widen my arse''

bombmistro

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2009, 10:54:56 pm »
I am the exact opposite I think of trucks that I can't do but I think the physics are there just I am not good enough things like a one handed genocide with bothsticks in one hand
I AM BACK AND HERE TO STAY!!!

Funty

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Re: Creativity discussion
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2009, 11:53:42 pm »
For me creativity is key. Its all in the discovering new tricks, doesn't really matter if its been done before, it's still creative providing you didn't know in the first place:)

Strangely i find the genocide with one hand is easier from a whip catch.