Author Topic: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan  (Read 12138 times)

Sean

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3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« on: June 19, 2009, 01:55:53 am »
Arjan has written some great notes on the fundamentals of learning and practicing high patterns.

Quote
...This is the most important basic training exercise to warm up any high session and calibrate your throws: Start from a normal stance and body position, diabolo spinning on the string, and throw it in a controlled circle at a low height, just above the chest. Catch the diabolo, moving your feet, upper body, and arms as little as possible. Throw again. Repeat the throws perfectly for perhaps 10 times in a row and then move to progressively higher heights (2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 diabolo siteswap height)...
Read the full article.

Martijn

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2009, 12:13:49 pm »
Cool :) Cheers for that Arjan.
download Made in Taiwan at www.arjangroenendijk.nl

Matyz

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2009, 12:43:05 pm »
Wow, that is somethig.

Mayby my 2d high will finaly lest longer with the moving.

Cheers to Arjan.

zwiggelbig

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2009, 03:35:44 pm »
I love you Arjan!

I'm gonna use that to start practicing my 3 high!

But I wish I had a gymn =( I can keep up 2 high for a long while inside a gymn but outside I usualy don't even get over 10 catches  :-|

Dracodragon

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2009, 05:38:39 pm »
Good read! Thanks for making somthing like this Arjan. Once I get the time, I want to try to add a little bit to the talk about high patterns with a few tips about being in harmony with your environment, and correcting misaligned diabolos.
Go Draco with your Diabolo!
http://frogfighters.com/godraco/

zwiggelbig

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2009, 11:10:27 pm »
I want to try to add a little bit to the talk about high patterns with a few tips about being in harmony with your environment, and correcting misaligned diabolos.

I would like that very very much  ;)

Sean

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2009, 01:28:49 am »
Once I get the time, I want to try to add a little bit to the talk about high patterns with a few tips about being in harmony with your environment, and correcting misaligned diabolos.
Sounds good. Get in touch with me when you're ready and I'll set you up with an account.

Arjan

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2009, 10:50:05 pm »
Hello people!

Thanks for your few but kind responses.

I hope the article raises more questions as it gives answers. Feel free to share them here, eventually I will do another article on more advance stuff, the content depending on your questions basically.


Diabolo Dodson

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2009, 07:54:44 am »
Thanks for this, my 3 high is improving now. Once i get them up there i can keep 3 high going for quite a while, my problem is starting it from low. I always end up running after diabolos at the start, then i correct the pattern, have you got any tips for this?

Arjan

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2009, 08:12:53 am »
Not sure what you're getting at? You have problems starting a high pattern?
What exactly is going wrong?

Diabolo Dodson

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2009, 08:32:36 am »
Not sure what you're getting at? You have problems starting a high pattern?
What exactly is going wrong?
Yeh im having problems starting it (i start from 3 low), every so often i start clean and get a run of about 20 catches, but usually all diabolos go to far to my left, then i have to quickly run to the side to catch them again.

Arjan

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2009, 07:29:40 pm »
Yeh im having problems starting it (i start from 3 low), every so often i start clean and get a run of about 20 catches, but usually all diabolos go to far to my left, then i have to quickly run to the side to catch them again.

Your transition from low to high is probably a bit to rushed or rapid. Try to get a good flow of increasing hight from you low pattern, and eventually you will have to switch to high smoothly.
But, as I haven't seen you try this I can't help. Plus for these articles I'm not planning to mention a lot about low stuff.

Hathaway

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2009, 09:55:06 am »
Bit late getting to this, a pretty good read! Cheers for the work gone into it Arjan, thoroughly interesting read!

Richard

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2009, 06:47:56 am »
Hi Arjan,

I just wanted to gauge how long it's taken you to master 3 high - I've been working at it so hard and the results are really slow - I think you saw my video of 3 high the other day.

I'm probably putting in about 30 mins every other day into the pattern and working on technique such as throwing from the hand etc.

I've found 3 high to be the hardest thing I've encountered in diabolo.

Any advice/feedback would help.

Rich

zwiggelbig

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2009, 12:36:13 pm »
Hey guys I have a question here.

I want to start 3 high but I cannot do a trapeze so I will do 2 trow ups.

How long does it takes average to master the trows? To be able to trow 2 up perfect? I'm just curious of what to expect..

Thanks!

Hathaway

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2009, 02:51:55 pm »
Its not a set time Ramon people learn things at different rates just keep at it...

Arjan

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2009, 04:41:12 pm »
Reply to both broncobob and zwiggelbig, just practice generally does the job.

It took me probably over a year to really master 3d, and I'm still perfecting it every day.

Read the blog, keep paying attention to every detail involved with the pattern.

zwiggelbig

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2009, 05:04:00 pm »
Alright.. But just one question..

What do you Arjan think is a better thing to do? Invest all my time in practicing the trapeze start. Or forget about it and learn to trow 2 diabolo's up perfect?

Dracodragon

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2009, 05:35:52 pm »
Alright.. But just one question..

What do you Arjan think is a better thing to do? Invest all my time in practicing the trapeze start. Or forget about it and learn to trow 2 diabolo's up perfect?

Hi Zwiggelbig,

Although I am not Arjan I really suggest learning throwing 2 diabolos up perfect for these reasons:
-its a quicker start, you dont have to accelerate 2 diabolos first which takes more time
-it helps if you ever want to learn 4 diabolos
-the diabolos spin slower so its easier to collect them all from the high pattern

Im not sure what the advantages are of trapeze start, I never quite took the time to learn it because it seemed to have disadvantages for me.
Go Draco with your Diabolo!
http://frogfighters.com/godraco/

zwiggelbig

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2009, 07:19:49 pm »
Hi Zwiggelbig,

Although I am not Arjan I really suggest learning throwing 2 diabolos up perfect for these reasons:
-its a quicker start, you dont have to accelerate 2 diabolos first which takes more time
-it helps if you ever want to learn 4 diabolos
-the diabolos spin slower so its easier to collect them all from the high pattern

Im not sure what the advantages are of trapeze start, I never quite took the time to learn it because it seemed to have disadvantages for me.

Thanks! I'm tottaly gonna forget about trapeze now and just focus on the trow up! Gotta discuss withmyself wich trow I'm gonna use.. The cups or the axle.. Well thanks! I shall put enough time in it so that one day oh yea one day.. I can stand at a convention trowing 4 high and having all those little kids saying 'OOOOEH AAAH ' at me just like they did with Jacob at the bjc  :-D


Arjan

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2009, 09:43:26 pm »
Yeah I myself prefer the 2 handthrow start instead of the trapeze, or stopover start. But sometimes it's good to practice every sort of start you know.

Richard

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2009, 10:15:49 pm »
-the diabolos spin slower so its easier to collect them all from the high pattern

I've found that the trapese start actually makes it easier to correct/keep in the plane because there's one diabolo that is wobbling much less.

One thing that I've been doing lately is practicing the hand throws OVER and OVER.  I've been doing a drill of about 5-10 mins each day just on the throws.  It has mad SUCH a difference. I'm finding I can start the pattern pretty much each time now (because the initial throws are accurate).

If you're struggling, I'd recommend breaking it down and seeing how good you really are at each of the steps.  You don't want to have any inaccuracies in any step of the process.

zwiggelbig

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2009, 10:36:53 pm »
Hey thanks! I'm gonna drill it to then =) Everyday a view minuts just practicing the trows! I shall first start learning to trow up 1 diabolo consitently ( can't even do that yet ) and then just keep on trowing 2 and start 2 high!

Goal: Next year I should be able to shuffle 3 diabolo's and juggle with 3 diabolo's!!!

Richard

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2009, 09:11:41 am »
Hey thanks! I'm gonna drill it to then =) Everyday a view minuts just practicing the trows! I shall first start learning to trow up 1 diabolo consitently ( can't even do that yet ) and then just keep on trowing 2 and start 2 high!

Nice one - It's actually a LOT harder than you might think to get the throw into the right areas consistantly.

You can practice 2 high 2 different ways: 1) have one spinning and throw one up from the hand 2) throw up 2 from the hand. Also, I'd recommend sometimes practicing 1d in the air off a hand throw - it will show you any flaws you may have in your technique.

Hope this helps :)

zwiggelbig

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2009, 10:19:56 am »
Nice one - It's actually a LOT harder than you might think to get the throw into the right areas consistantly.

You can practice 2 high 2 different ways: 1) have one spinning and throw one up from the hand 2) throw up 2 from the hand. Also, I'd recommend sometimes practicing 1d in the air off a hand throw - it will show you any flaws you may have in your technique.

Hope this helps :)

Yea I'm first gonna drill trowing 1d in the air all the time and then move up to 2 when I'm ready =) Gimme a year  :-D

Diabolo Dodson

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2009, 11:47:03 pm »
Just got my 3 high throw start working, manage to get about 30 catches before they tilt to much and die. I find that when i do 3 low-high i have quite a low pattern and find it easier to run for long periods of time this way, but when i throw start my pattern is higher. Does anyone no why im doing this? Its not dramatically higher, only by a metre or so, but i just cant lower it for some reason. I no its not a big problem but it was bugging me.

Arjan

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2009, 06:42:53 am »
I have never really heard of this before, but I can maybe give a reason.
Since a low pattern has a much faster pace, you'll be more comfortable with a lower high pattern as when you would just start high and not do the low pattern before.
I myself don't have this problem since I often start high. O and yes I use between 5 or 10 throws always to stabilize the pattern. Then the pattern is often a bit higher.

zwiggelbig

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2009, 04:30:12 pm »
Ugh trow start will take me a long... While before I get that under control..

Diabolo Dodson

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2009, 08:04:37 pm »
Thanks arjan, im sure with practice ill get it more comfortable, it just takes me longer to correct the pattern so by the time its corrected i think im too tense. I have a big problem aswell that i only get chance to practice in a gym once a week and its way to windy where i live at the moment to work on high =[[ so each week i seem to loose my progress and its like im starting all over again.
Ugh trow start will take me a long... While before I get that under control..
Cold starting 2 high took me about a year ..... its very hard, i find it harder with sundia suns aswell because they tilt faster with bad technique, i practiced with finesse and circus for about a while then the following week i had it solid on suns =] Once youve got it you dont really loose it.

zwiggelbig

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2009, 08:37:26 pm »
^^ True Dodson.. And the thing is when I can do it! I CAN do it and I won't dislearn it or it just takes me a week before I got it back again. And thats the buety of it! We practice and practice and one day it will all return itself! Thats why I'm hating practicing 5 balls but when I can do it I CAN do it!

Diabolo Dodson

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2009, 09:16:20 pm »
^^ True Dodson.. And the thing is when I can do it! I CAN do it and I won't dislearn it or it just takes me a week before I got it back again. And thats the buety of it! We practice and practice and one day it will all return itself! Thats why I'm hating practicing 5 balls but when I can do it I CAN do it!
Same with my 5 balls, but i never practice juggling, i dont even own 5 of my own juggling balls. Ive ran 5 balls for about 25 catches when borrowing other peoples. But it comes and goes. Which ive found annoying lol, i got 4 balls overnight, the evening before i couldnt do 2 in one hand properly, put some practice in, next afternoon i was running 4. I was expecting 5 to be similar lol i need to buy another ball

Richard

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2009, 10:50:08 pm »
^^ True Dodson.. And the thing is when I can do it! I CAN do it and I won't dislearn it or it just takes me a week before I got it back again. And thats the buety of it! We practice and practice and one day it will all return itself!

that's exactly what happens with me!  If I let it go for a little while I feel pain, however if I keep the practice flowing, everything just fits. :)  I guess the key is to keep it up all the time.  Also, it's pretty windy where I live at the moment so I sometimes just practice the hand throws - still get someting out of it.

Diabolo Dodson

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2009, 12:56:02 pm »
Anyone got any tips on high correction? String corrections are bloody hard to do on suns, i sometimes can correct them if there not spinning very fast, but what the hell do i do when there up to speed lol.

Sean

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2009, 02:39:12 pm »
Unless the diabolos are spinning slowly, string corrections are gradual. If you want rapid corrections on fast spinning diabolos then you'll need to let them hit your sticks... that isn't easy. I'm able to do string corrections on Suns without too much trouble. In fact they seem more sensitive at slow speeds than narrower axled diabolos. That's more the problem I find. With a throw start, they are extra sensitive to imperfect string alignment at first.

I think of high pattern correction differently than low pattern correction. With low patterns you pick a diabolo that's off and fix it in 1 or maybe 2 quick steps. With high patterns I'm always gradually correcting the diabolos towards a perfect state. If they get too far away from perfect then there's not much you can do (unless you master the stick hitting thing). You can make fairly big corrections on fast spinning diabolos, but you're going to have to make big exaggerated movements for a long time. I find working with 2 high a good way to get used to that.

Arjan

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2009, 05:08:21 pm »
String corrections are fairly easy to learn. But tapping them with the stick is very difficult. I can only do it one way aswell, the far cup is very very hard. My way of handling it is basically avoiding the diabolo's to start tilting or turning. Just by handstarting them correct. 

Diabolo Dodson

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2009, 08:45:56 pm »
Unless the diabolos are spinning slowly, string corrections are gradual. If you want rapid corrections on fast spinning diabolos then you'll need to let them hit your sticks... that isn't easy. I'm able to do string corrections on Suns without too much trouble. In fact they seem more sensitive at slow speeds than narrower axled diabolos. That's more the problem I find. With a throw start, they are extra sensitive to imperfect string alignment at first.

I think of high pattern correction differently than low pattern correction. With low patterns you pick a diabolo that's off and fix it in 1 or maybe 2 quick steps. With high patterns I'm always gradually correcting the diabolos towards a perfect state. If they get too far away from perfect then there's not much you can do (unless you master the stick hitting thing). You can make fairly big corrections on fast spinning diabolos, but you're going to have to make big exaggerated movements for a long time. I find working with 2 high a good way to get used to that.
Ahh thanks Sean  :) I didnt realise it was a gradual thing. That should help me a bit, and yeh my throw start is very sketchy because as you said there very sensitive at low speeds, ever so often i get the throws perfect and get a nice long run.

Diabolo88

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2009, 11:27:09 am »
I correct both ways and my way of stickcorrections is jamming the stick into both cups first for correcting the alignment and then touch just one cup to fix the tilting that usually happens by touching both cups. Stickcorrecting is way easier to do turning ACC and tilt is easier to fix if the diabolos lean forward. Get them too far backwards or turned to the left and it´ll be harder to get them back straight. You can always "precorrect" them if you have a tendency to turn or make make them lean.

briantomhson

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Re: 3 Diabolo High Notes, by Arjan
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2009, 09:47:15 am »
Very nice post with a ton of informative information. I really appreciate the fact that you approach these topics from a stand point of knowledge and information
instead of the typical “I think” mentality that you see so much on the internet these days.