Author Topic: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)  (Read 3740 times)

Toby

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What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« on: April 26, 2010, 03:01:55 pm »
cool. It's not really an "official" trick, but neither are integrals, and they're awesome.

What are you on  about?!?!

RandomSeaBadger

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2010, 06:09:12 pm »
What are you on  about?!?!

I second that motion!  :-D
To save everyone hassle, my real name's Euan! :D

Duncan

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2010, 06:17:32 pm »
This might make this off-topic (I'll just split it later if it does), but what is an 'official' trick? When does a trick become canon?

Billy

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2010, 06:19:44 pm »
Yeah! That's what I want to know!
Yoyosam.com is where I get my stuff.
Where do you get yours?

jordak

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2010, 10:28:59 pm »
This might make this off-topic (I'll just split it later if it does), but what is an 'official' trick? When does a trick become canon?

To stay on topic I'll try to keep it concise:

Tricks that have a unique motion that becomes a standard part of a competent diabolos repertoire.
Tricks that are variations of existing tricks with stylistic changes or minor tweaks are not official.

So for instance: throw and catch is official...throw and catch with spins and/or jump rope unofficial.
Chinese suicides, firecrackers, icecrackers, official...fire&icecracker combo unofficial.

Basically there are unique tricks and other tricks which go into the same position differently or add a new motion while keeping the basic motion the same.

This is just what I think and I generally do not make any distinction except when I demonstrate them.

So it really doesn't matter whether it's official or not...or maybe it does

Just don't get to worked up about it.
Diabolo may be very technical - but don't overlook the artistic side ;-)

Toby

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2010, 11:34:14 pm »
When did you decide this? A trick is a trick. Some tricks are more commonly used than others. I don't really understand what the point in calling them 'official' or not is. Is there an official officialising panel?

Hathaway

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2010, 11:58:18 pm »
You are MENTAL!

I lol'd, cheers for being so concise.

Please start a new thread about this explaining the rules further in depth, I wish to know all the official tricks. Are there any particular laws that govern these rules that help YOU decide what is official and what isn't?

Just don't get to worked up about it.

Waaatever, I'll do what I want!
Alex abuses flys!

jordak

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2010, 01:52:56 am »
You are MENTAL!

I lol'd, cheers for being so concise.

Please start a new thread about this explaining the rules further in depth, I wish to know all the official tricks. Are there any particular laws that govern these rules that help YOU decide what is official and what isn't?

Waaatever, I'll do what I want!

...Just forget about it then, but somebody did ask so I was trying to give a general system into which tricks place. And it was concise relative to what a new thread would be.
I motion to end this silly discussion about "official tricks" now.

Back on topic: In a couple hours when I have functioning internet I plan on watching the new video you posted, Billy. I'm really excited to try my hand at this trick.
Diabolo may be very technical - but don't overlook the artistic side ;-)

Duncan

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 02:44:04 am »
...somebody did ask so I was trying to give a general system into which tricks place. And it was concise relative to what a new thread would be.

I asked that question because I felt it was entirely ridiculous to consider the notion of having "official tricks" as a total 'other' set from the so called "unofficial ones."

Now, because I want to NOT work on my thesis as much as possible, I'd like to briefly discuss Jordak's definition:

To stay on topic I'll try to keep it concise:

Tricks that have a unique motion that becomes a standard part of a competent diabolos repertoire.
Tricks that are variations of existing tricks with stylistic changes or minor tweaks are not official.

So for instance: throw and catch is official...throw and catch with spins and/or jump rope unofficial.
Chinese suicides, firecrackers, icecrackers, official...fire&icecracker combo unofficial.

Basically there are unique tricks and other tricks which go into the same position differently or add a new motion while keeping the basic motion the same.

This is just what I think and I generally do not make any distinction except when I demonstrate them.

I think Toby is quite right to ask who makes a trick official? Certainly it is a subjective idea, and you may consider a trick official whereas if I ever thought there were official tricks I might consider your choice completely wrong. That said, I don't feel there are official tricks, but certainly tricks that people have decided to pay more attention to which give the illusion of "official."
There's certainly not many[1] people in an audience at a show watched a diabolo performance who go "jeeze, that guy didn't use official tricks number 2, 7, and 16-18. And all he did were some fancy tweaks on those other ones. What a loser."
If we use your definition of what an official trick is, however, then perhaps we could say that "people who are competent diaboloists will use tricks that are official to their trick-set - motions that have become standard in their repertoire." But that is the only way I could see "official" being used, and even I don't buy it. 

I'm blowing this quite a bit out of proportion (its just a plastic spinning toy after all; and I really don't want to work on my thesis), but I liked the idea that this could get some discussion going. But in answer to Billy's question for his Crossbones cradle, just don't worry about making a trick "official" or not. From my observation (perhaps others might agree), tricks catch on if they're interesting (look at slack-whips, integrals, the three-low-double-armstall-put-it-in-one-hand-pose-point-that-toe-dammit finish) and they become a common sight. If the trick is interesting, it might catch on. It's a fun trick, I might try it. Maybe others will to. Is the reason you came up with it in hopes of it becoming widely used and well known?

For those who will say tl;dr - official is subjective. I've spent way too much time on this. Perhaps a better question is "how does a trick become popular[2]?"

-Duncan [being a grumpy old fart trying to stir up some debate]
 1. but there could be some
 2. I'm sure this'll lead to a debate of "what is popular!?"

Sean

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 02:51:33 am »
Good long answer above. Short answer:
 http://diabolotricks.com/
or
http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?board=17.0
Or post it and name it. Done.

Billy

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 02:59:55 am »
Quote
Is the reason you came up with it in hopes of it becoming widely used and well known?

No. I was just playing around with cradles and thought it looked pretty cool.

I guess I was asking was it good enough for people to say like "Hey! That a trick I haven't seen before. Looks pretty cool! Maybe I will try it."  That kind of thing.

I guess I wasn't thinking very well when I said "official" seeing as diabolo doesn't really have set rules.
Yoyosam.com is where I get my stuff.
Where do you get yours?

jordak

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2010, 05:18:37 am »
Thumbs up to previous post by Duncan. I wish I could have written that instead of that dribble I wrote above.
Diabolo may be very technical - but don't overlook the artistic side ;-)

RandomSeaBadger

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Re: What is an official trick? (split from Crossbone Cradle)
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2010, 01:43:03 pm »
Hmmm...

I was coming from the point of view that surely if it's a new trick it's an "official" one. I certainly hadn't seen the trick before.

Maybe "standard" and "variations" would be a better way of defining them... personally i don't care how you define them... they're all tricks!

Sorry for the late follow up!
To save everyone hassle, my real name's Euan! :D