Author Topic: 3d instants  (Read 25246 times)

Sharpes

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3d instants
« on: September 12, 2005, 03:01:24 am »
I know this is kind of mean/rude/disgruntled/rainging on everybody's parade, but I feel it should be said. I see a lot of videos of young people doing three low after not to long, because I think now that it has been studied and done for so long, it has gotten to where anybody can learn it in 2-3 months if they practice it every day. However, I would propose that many of these people have stopped their 1 and 2 diabolo work very short, and go quickly to three low because they can and because it's a big deal. I think that this is 1) a waste of time, because people are then trying tricks that take much longer to  learn then than if they tried them in say, another year when their abilities and understanding of 1 and 2 diabolo had gone way way up and 2) a way to make a completely imbalanced diaboloist that can't perform as well as they should given how long they've been diaboloing because they spend all of their time doing three low, getting one trick consistently in say 15-25 (just a guess) hours of practice where they should be getting new tricks with one and two much faster and filling out their repertoire before they move on to tricks that take a long-term commitment. For example, only a little while back, arjan probably couldn't have performed anything with 3 high or low, but I would infinitely much rather have watched him, because of the depth and interest of his tricks, than whatch somebody do a little bit with one, then do three. It just doesn't do justice to the prop. So please, the next time you watch a video of three high or low with crazy tricks, don't get up and start trying it because you can. say to yourself "wow, those guys have been doing this way longer than me, I should get to work on expanding my understanding of the prop by doing some hard core practising with 1 and 2 diabolos, and leave that third diabolo for next year."

again, I don't mean to rain on anybody's parade, but I felt that something should be said

Jacob Sharpe
Jacob and Nate Sharpe

Arjan

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3d instants
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2005, 07:36:40 am »
word up!

same thing with the 10 year old kids who throw 7 balls, but cannot do any swaps with 5.

I totally agree with you Sharpes.

-Leo-

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3d instants
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2005, 07:42:55 am »
It's probably a bit silly to think of this but could there ever be numbers diaboloists.Like numbers jugglers but without as many diabolos as say balls or rings? Sorry its a bit off topic but I don't think it deserves its own thread.
Behind your back is your front.

Arjan

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3d instants
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2005, 07:58:22 am »
Yeah there are number diabolists. And some even only preform numbers most of the time. Think of Baptiste and JiBe. But they have moved on to numbers after a long time of 1 and 2 diabolo work. Some people only work at numbers, because they like it. I understand that. But, when you want to perform a 3 diabolo trick like a sun or a sprinkler, you should be able to do these with 2 diabolo`s with your eyes closed.

It`s just the imbalanced diabolist Jacob points out. That is no good in any way.

norbi

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3d instants
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2005, 10:01:34 am »
Well said Jacob, i doubt i could have put it better myself, although i probably would have used terms like 'holes in their base technique' etc...
But i totally agree, and with Arjans point about kids doing 7 but nothing lower. You're wasting your own time.
If you have a really wide/solid base technique with the lower numbers, then anything with higher numbers will take a significantly shorter time to learn, and therefor will be less frustrating. Secondly you will never be able to perform, ok so some/most of you dont want to, but some will, and if you can do some ugly and mostly droppy work with 1 and 2 and then do 3, si dont think it'll really cut the mustard. Thirdly you'll get a load of old hippy diabolists calling you instant  :wink:

seán_

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3d instants
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2005, 12:19:21 pm »
Quote from: norbi
Thirdly you'll get a load of old hippy diabolists calling you instant  :wink:


It seems to be the young uns kicking up the fuss so far ;)

My thoughts for what theyre worth,
I roughly agree that it would be better to get a solid grounding and progression.

We all have are own journey in this world, feel free to find your own path. Tahia for example pretty much bypassed 1 AFAIR. /exit hippy mode.

3 is starting to loose its mystique in the same way 2 has. It was not so long ago that purely running two and the occaisional trick put you above the crowd.

Standing on the shoulders of giants. After Guy first did 3 low it was a long time until the next person got it then a section of French Diaboloists closely followed by other Europeans, Japanese and New Worlders. The knowledege coming from pretty much everyone who has managed to get 3 is helping no end. The same thing happened in juggling.

Not everyone diabolos in order to perform, many are happy just to see the diabolos moving in ways that amuse them /exit partial hippy mode

One of the old UK hands has a theory that it might be easier for somebody who is relatively new to diabolo to get 3 low since they dont have some of the ingrained habits that will go against the hand motions etc. required to run 3.

Will^

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3d instants
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2005, 12:54:36 pm »
Quote
One of the old UK hands has a theory that it might be easier for somebody who is relatively new to diabolo to get 3 low since they dont have some of the ingrained habits that will go against the hand motions etc. required to run 3.


I was thinking about this the other day. What if you were to introduce someone to diabolo, and say, only show them the Vertax style, or only 2 and telling them that doing anything with one wasnt even considered a trick. I bet you they'd learn much much faster, as they arent set in their ways. Ofcourse, being far far off an experienced diaboloist myself, i'm probably talking out of my own backside.

About the 'everyone learning 3' thing. I agree. I've watched countless videos of people doing three low, high, whatever, and I can safely say I have never attempted it. Not from a wrap. Not from a pass in. Not at all. This is because at the moment I'm only limited to a few, really shaky 2d tricks.

Martijn

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3d instants
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2005, 02:48:31 pm »
Nice of you to point this out clearly Jacob. I totally agree with you. For example, In my opinion Niels had a very good basis with 1 and 2 diabs, and then moved on to 3. I don't know if Niels still juggles 1 and 2 diabs, but if I watch his latest video (still amazed :shock:), I don't know for sure if he still improves a lot with 1/2d.

The problem is... where do you draw the line? When are you ready to buy/take that 3rd diabolo, and try some?

Secondly, unfortunately people seem to be more impressed by numbers (I'm talking about 3+ diabolos [maybe even 2+ is considered to be numbers juggling in diabolo terms..]) than by really nice and complicated tricks with 1 and 2 diabs.

Sorry for my English, I'm not too sure about some of my sentences... I know you understand :wink:
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Jussi

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Re: 3d instants
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2005, 03:19:37 pm »
i believe that if you want ever learn 3d low its good start practising quite early.. stupid example maybe, but there is four MFP members who cant do 3d low (as i know) and they are probably same four who have started longest time ago? and if you really can learn low 3d.. its not a very big deal fill holes in 1 and 2d basics after that.. i think 3d low is impossible to learn if you cant do 2d high, fast 2d acceleration and 2d colums maybe too..

Jonnyh

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3d instants
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2005, 04:08:44 pm »
Interesting stuff! I think we should still remember that there aren't really any limits / rules on diabolo. Hopefully its still about the 'fun' factor. I'm personally happy with the fact that I can do 2 fairly well.  :)

Luke Burrage

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3d instants
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2005, 04:28:09 pm »
I´m not sure if this has been mentioned before on the forum...


What about the first person to ever perform a purely 3 diabolo routine? No 1 diabolo, no 2 diabolo... just 3 high, low, and anything in between. Should this person spend time working on 1 diabolo tricks and 2 diabolo tricks that they aren´t going to perform?

Personally, I can´t wait to see a 3 diabolo routine, that lasts a full act (say 3-4 minutes). I bet it will happen within a year.
Luke

Chiok

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3d instants
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2005, 05:42:47 pm »
Quote from: Luke Burrage
What about the first person to ever perform a purely 3 diabolo routine? No 1 diabolo, no 2 diabolo... just 3 high, low, and anything in between. Should this person spend time working on 1 diabolo tricks and 2 diabolo tricks that they aren´t going to perform?
Does anyone know what Quentin Bancel's performance was like at the Crawley Convention this year (for those that missed EJC, or did both like some sort of rich bugger.)  I imagine he has enough stuff to put together a 3-4minute slot, what with all his 3 high patterns and some groovy 3 low stuff.  I think the video I have of him was all 3D, might have been some 2 perhaps, and there was a 1D trick, but that was balancing on the nose.

If I were to draw comparisons with diabolo and toss juggling in the "numbers" sense, I'd say 3D is probably around the 6-7 ball marker or 5 clubs.

Chiok
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University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

norbi

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3d instants
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2005, 05:45:49 pm »
Yeh he has enough material, but it isn't solid. He is trying though, he had hardly learned anything new since the video you all saw, he is just solidifying all that stuff. I think Ryo has the best chance of the 3diab routine. Loads of great stuff, and all pretty solid.

-Leo-

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3d instants
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2005, 06:55:08 pm »
Where do you draw the line. Someone else pointed this out. I probably won't try to learn 3 seriously for 1 year maybe 2 but I was wondering where the line actualy is :?
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Tahia

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3d instants
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2005, 07:02:45 pm »
hello ! well we've the same kind of topic about 3D low on jongle.net!!
so here's my point of view !!

well doing 3low just to have 3low become realy fashion...apparently :D!!

for exemple sean_ said that 1diabolo was exit for me..... yes that's right!! but there is some reason to say:
when i began diabolo it was just for fun, and i would never think that i would continue... i just wanted 2low for the fun... but i didn't know that i will realy love it!! and i didn't see me like a "juggler" so ,all the way of thinking about having good bases didn"t meant nothing for me....!!
how could a young diabolist  think about the" good way" to become a "good diabolist"?? the good way to progress in juggling? it doesn't mean nothing for him cause he don't know what mean to be a juggler like working on ball :3ball 4 ball then 5ball etc...!

 i don't think that i'm explaining good... :?

then sure i've work about 3low but it was fun! just fun!! it's the principal!!
but before begining 3low... i think that i had good bases on 2low...

and then i'm agree with you sean_ when you say "We all have are own journey in this world, feel free to find your own path. "
 everybody do what they want!! juggling and for sure diaboloing is not a exact science :)

Matt_

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3d instants
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2005, 07:49:08 pm »
i think it's gotten to the point where 3d is a big deal anymore. i also think that many people are "rushing" into 3D where it's not a big deal. like Jacob said i'd prefer to see people do cool 1D and 2D routines than just run 3D. in the time it takes to learn 3D you can spend that on a lot of 1/2D routines. i was the same way i guess, i didnt start doing 2D for a long long time (like 7 months or something) so that's why i'm "behind" in my 2D development (almost a year later, i can do a couple suns, sprinkler/double sprinkler, suicide and that's about it :oops: )

besides, some of the best diaboloists can't do 3D, it's not a big deal...for example Matt Hall (don't kill me when you read this, sensei :x).

cliffs notes: interesting 1D/2D > 3D shuffle

kamikace

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3d instants
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2005, 07:51:09 pm »
Juggling have its fashion too. It´s the "information" era and these are the consecuences (good or bad for each person). Personally I don´t think more about this   :?
"shut up and juggle!" lol :wink:
Rooted diabolist.

Martijn

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3d instants
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2005, 07:59:14 pm »
Quote from: kamikace
"shut up and juggle!" lol :wink:

Haha, nice one :)
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Tom Derrick

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Re: 3d instants
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2005, 08:01:11 pm »
Quote from: Kapis
i think 3d low is impossible to learn if you cant do 2d high, fast 2d acceleration and 2d colums maybe too..

I really don't see the logic behind that. It's a bit like saying that you need to learn 3 ball backcrosses before you start learning a 5 ball cascade.

norbi

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3d instants
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2005, 08:13:29 pm »
Thanx Tom, i wanted to say something, but couldnt be bothered. I'd be interested to know how you got to that conclusion aswell Kapis