Author Topic: 3d instants  (Read 25704 times)

Chiok

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3d instants
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2005, 10:02:33 pm »
I'm guessing, and I'm just guessing, but it might have to do with being able to keep the diabolos in line.  With 2 high, if they're not inline when you throw them, you're running around all over the place and then they tilt, and go everywhere.  Maybe it's about having a good plane position to keep all 3 low nice and steady.  Fast 2 accelerations are probably useful when you want to accelerate a low 3 shuffle (I only manage every other with 2).  And mini columns, no idea.  Maybe a control thing again?

Chiok
(guilty of trying 3 with 2 finesses and a beach)
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University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

Paul

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3d instants
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2005, 11:49:15 pm »
The thing about 3 diabs with me is that yeah, fair enough its impressive, but personally I have very little interest in learning. I have a huge arsenal of 1 and 2 tricks and combo's but I am still far too hungry for more things with this style than 3. Dont get me wrong I have tried 3 but the novelty is wearing off pretty quickly as I find 1 and 2 more 'artistic' than 3 but hey. Thats personal preference really isnt it.
Peace

arnie

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3d instants
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2005, 02:33:08 am »
I feel Jacob is trivialising three, I spent countless hours working bare chested in Selly Oak woods on three, up to my waste in a sewage outflow, to the point that I could no longer do a 1d stringclimb (the mainstay of my stage show).
Oh and I only took breaks to work on my seven clubs and 3ball eat the apple for nourishment. How dare you call that instant!  ;)

dynamaniac

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3d instants
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2005, 03:36:42 am »
i kinda disagree, because as said before diabolo doesnt have rules thats why its cool
i do understand tho. i used to skateboard a lot and it always bugged me how there were these 9 year old kids who grew up with halfpipes in their backyards, while i had dealt with police and angry grandmothers for three years just for skating in the streets.
truth is, when stuff gets popular, parents will introduce stuff to infants for some odd reason (i hope when im a dad, i just let my kids choose for themselves...)
to sum it up, there will always be some little kid who can do some seemingly amazing thing. but as teens and adults theres no reason to be that jealous - we have lives, we have true camaraderie from what we do, and most importantly, we are not abused by our parents for our talents.
wow that was cliche but ive come to believe it.

Dracodragon

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3d instants
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2005, 04:15:03 am »
Hey, everything is worth a shot. I do find 1d kinda boring after times since I pretty much focus a whole lot on 2d and 3d. But like dynamic said, diaboloing doesnt have any rules. 3d also seems very fun and very challenging, and some people like challenges(not saying that 1 and 2 are challenging, lots of tricks are). I am pretty much like the person you explained, someone who hasnt diaboloed for a long time, but still practices 3d, but I still have a good variety of 1 and 2d tricks up my sleeve. Anyways, theres my two cents to the opinion, saying go for it if you want to have it, and just have fun juggling. DONT JUGGLE IF YOU DONT HAVE FUN!!!  8)
Go Draco with your Diabolo!
http://frogfighters.com/godraco/

Jussi

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3d instants
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2005, 08:27:04 am »
Quote from: norbi
Thanx Tom, i wanted to say something, but couldnt be bothered. I'd be interested to know how you got to that conclusion aswell Kapis


if you try 5000 times to start 3d suffle and every time you have to speed up 2 diabolo at least for sprinklerspeed.. well.. you get fast acceleration way or another..

minicolums have something to do with feeling the weight of diabolo on string.. balance.. the feeling diabolo on string (when you throw it) in 3d suffle is pretty similar.. and 2d high.. well, you have to keep one diabolo all time out of string.. you have to think taking diabolo to string.. plains.. not just push like 2d shuffle.. hmm, my english is not that good i could explain my theories, but i hope you accept there is some logic.. more than that 5ball needs 3d backcrossed stuff.. (i cant do 5b so cant really tell if there is some logic)

Sharpes

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3d instants
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2005, 12:05:02 pm »
dynamaniac, this isn't about being jealous. when I see a video of say neils, I admit, there is a twinge of jealousy, but mostly it's just damn that kid is amazing. heck, I can do a large amount of tricks with both 3 high and low. I just feel that people are hurting their learning process and their abilities.
Jacob and Nate Sharpe

Spooned

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3d instants
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2005, 06:28:08 pm »
Quote from: Tahia
then sure i've work about 3low but it was fun! just fun!! it's the principal!!
but before begining 3low... i think that i had good bases on 2low...


If you dont enjoy the side of learning (say 3d) and get angry when you fail then there is no point in continuing to juggle or diabolo or whatever, you spend time practising to get better.

Quote from: Sharpes
when I see a video of say neils, I admit, there is a twinge of jealousy, but mostly it's just damn that kid is amazing


Neils only gets that good by practising(sp?) and when we watch a video of someone who is better than us we should be like:
"hey, that was awesome. One day i'm gonna be that good because i'm going to practice"
and not
"i hate that kid, hes better than me"

My $0.02 for anyone whos interested :?
Diabolo or Diablo

Sharpes

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3d instants
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2005, 06:59:25 pm »
hmm, maybe not jealousy, just competition, and yeah, when I watch videos I'm like, "damn i gotta go practice"
Jacob and Nate Sharpe

Nathan

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3d instants
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2005, 08:12:15 pm »
I don't think Jacob's orignal point was made out of jealousy. It was valid, but not applicable to all diaboloists. For one thing, the art (No, I'll never call diaboloing a sport) is advancing at an alarming rate. Just as a five club juggler with no tricks used to be phenomenal, so was a diaboloist who could run a two diabolo shuffle. The diaboloists in "Diabolo Follies 2" were the greats of their time. They were incredible. But now, people at that skill level are mediocre at best. So now would a five club juggler be mediocre, unless he learned singles, backcrosses and flats.

If people didn't rush into areas of diabolo that are far ahead of them, the art will not continue to advance nearly as fast as it has been.

I don't think Jacob's original post applies to diaboloists who practice diabolo for fun. If someone wants to practice three low in their basement for hours on end, so be it. They may rue this decision when they realize they have invited the disdain of the diaboloing community, but that shouldn't matter. Unless you are a practicing performer, you shold feel free to work on whatever you want.

However, all practicing diaboloists (And, to the same extent, jugglers) should take Jacob's words of advice to heart, and realize thet to an audience, a two diabolo shuffle and a three diabolo shuffle look as similar as a six ball half shower and a seven ball half shower.

CM

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3d instants
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2005, 10:08:12 pm »
I think that alot of people might try 3 diabolos very early because it is a lot easier to tell what is happening in a 3 diabolo shuffle than say some of Antonin's crazy 1 diabolo combos or Makky's 2 diabolo stuff. When some people see those kind of tricks they might say to themselves "Wow that's cool, but I have no idea what he just did!" Then the same person might see a video of someone shuffling three and say "Wow, that's only just another diabolo, maybe I can do that." I think people go on to three diabolos after only learning a few basic trick with one and two because three seems a lot easier than some crazy one or two diabolo tricks.
YO!

-Fred-

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3d instants
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2005, 08:17:30 am »
Quote from: CM
I think people go on to three diabolos after only learning a few basic trick with one and two because three seems a lot easier than some crazy one or two diabolo tricks.

I don't know if it's always true but often, I see jugglers who try to learn 3 diabs and who have real problems to run 2 diab... :roll:

--- Fred ---

Mithew

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3d instants
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2005, 03:24:03 am »
Jacob think your opinion about 3 three low is a bit extreme, but totally  valid.  The thing i disagree with, is although its stupid to learn 3d early on (did you hear that JJ777), its their choice, diabolo is about having FUN, and some people seem to be taking it (and lots of other sports) a bit too seriously (unless their professionals, as nathan said, thats an entirely different matter.  If a person wants to learn 3d low, let them, it just means their performances will stink, and they'll soon realize that, and will hopefully pass on the knowledge that its better to get a solid base with 1d and 2d before moving to 3d to others, and this current fad will burn out.
There are 11 types of people in the world.  Those who can count in binary and those who can't.

J_J777

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3d instants
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2005, 04:17:57 am »
The thing is I do have quite a solid base in 2 diabolo and 1 diabolo tricks (hey hey watch it no cheap shots) and I find a great satisfaction in 3 diabolos because I think it looks cool and it "feels" cool so I enjoy and have fun.  And if you say my performance stinks (ignore the TMS performance, my string was too old and it was knotted on stage before I started.)  So I find that I have a valid attempt at 3.

Also I find that a 3 diabolo shuffle looks total different than 2 diabolo because 1 diabolo is always suspended in air (most of the time.)

Pete

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3d instants
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2005, 01:52:01 pm »
I'm 14 years old, I can do 3 low, and I am proud of that. It took me a bit longer than most people seem to be learning it now (it took me just under a year to get a shuffle), but I am still proud that I can do 3 low.
I started diabolo when I was 9, I didn't know there was anything you could do with it except throw it and catch it. So for the first year of my diabolo practices that’s all I did. That only consisted of 20 minutes a week and only in the summer and spring. I was doing it for fun. I had no idea I would still be doing it 5 years on and probably be one of the best of my age group in the country.
I still find diabolo very fun. No matter how long I play for I don’t get bored. I don't think I could give up diabolo even if I tried because it is part of me now and I even flinch when my diabolos hit the floor.
So far none of this post has had anything to do with 3d, which is the topic so I better say something about that. Only 2.5 years ago did I find out that 3 diabolos was possible. I was learning 2 at that time and making some progress. HT e idea of 3 diabolos in any shape or form completely overwhelmed me. By this pint I had realised that I was probably going to continue diabolo for a long long time. I immediately wanted to learn 3d and stepped up my 2d practises doing 5-6 hours a day through the summer holidays of that year. I progressed through 2d quite quickly and was trying 3d within a year of learning 2d. At first I got very angry. Because I couldn't do it. As with everything I had learnt in diabolo up to that point. I even contemplated giving up and became immensely jealous of people like Tony and the rest of MFP. I am still jealous of Tony and MFP to this day and I still get absolutely furious with my diabolo. But I still enjoy it. I never started diabolo to make a career of juggling or even to become at all known in the juggling community around the world. I still don’t, I do it for fun. 3 low has become less and less important but I didn't start learning 3d for respect or credit form anyone I did it to get better at diabolo to have more fun. And I would presume that is why most people would learn 3d or 2d or anything. Obviously once someone has learned these skills they may as well do something with them. So why does it matter how quickly or how many people learn 3d if it makes you jealous to see people doing things that you can't them you should make effort to do better. If you are annoyed that too many other people are getting as good or better than you, you should make effort to practise harder to maintain your position over them, But that’s up to you.
No one gets an easy ride in diabolo, everyone try’s just as hard, or harder than you, but it doesn't matter why they do it. Everyone gets angry, when they can't do it, everyone feels the world is unfair when they can't do it and someone else can. There is proof of this in diabology, in the uncut at the end you see Tony absolutely flinging his diabolos away, or hitting them on the floor. He doesn't get it any easier than anyone.

The whole point of this probably too long post that not very many people will read is that its up to you what you think. What does it matter how quickly some one learns 3d? So what if someone learns it in 2-3 months if it took you the best part of a year or longer. Congrats to them but they haven't had it any easier. If they have been helped by resources on the Internet or books or videos or DVDs, that’s good. That’s called progress. The resources out there are there to help people get better. It you think that’s unfair go and complain to someone who will do something about it but rest assured they won't.

Sorry for the long post. I had to get my view across somehow it just took a lot of words.

Sory for enny spelling mis-tackes or gramactical erra's,
The tallest trees from acorns grow.

Chiok

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3d instants
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2005, 10:53:38 pm »
That's some very valid points.  I'll agree that they may have just tried harder than you, but I'll also counter that with some people can just do things better than you.  Take anything for example, some people will try something and get it straight away, some will take ages about it.  Any 3 ball beginners class you see, some kid might have it by the end of the session whilst some are still trying to get the 330 pattern.  But if you do try harder, you might get it quicker.  There's probably too much variability in these things to be certain about any factors that contribute.

I'm a lil annoyed I can't do 3low (or high) and would love it if I could.  I'm annoyed I can't fan properly, I'm annoyed by 5ball progress has stalled, I'm annoyed I couldn't style my hair properly today.  Not to say that I didn't try (cept with the 3 low, I only have 2 same), but sometimes you will find things you can get straight away and others you can't.  I think a point might be not to be so arrogant or self-rightous and think it's so easy when someone else struggles.

We're a friendly bunch of people, let's keep it that way.

Chiok
www.gravityvomit.co.uk - Gravity pulls down, we throw up.
University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

Pete

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3d instants
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2005, 09:15:03 pm »
Sorry if it was at all unfriendly. It was just the way to get the point across.

Then of course there's age differences. Young people learn quicker than older people (not trying to be agist)
The tallest trees from acorns grow.

Sharpes

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3d instants
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2005, 10:11:22 pm »
My comment was mostly directed toward performing, and a suggestion for anyone who's very frustrated with three to maybe work on two and one, and have much more success, before moving back to three when it will probably be a good deal less frustrating. but mostly just about performing
Jacob and Nate Sharpe

Chiok

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3d instants
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2005, 10:47:58 pm »
Pete:- The age thing is also true, studies do show your aptitude for learning is less the older you become.  Not unfriendly at all.  As for Sharpes point, well, he has one.  Building foundations does make you more solid overall [/fortune cookie comment]
But then has anyone ever skipped a stage in anything, or rushed through it to the next part.  The example that I was thinking of was A-Level mathematics.  Pure 1 + 2 went ok, no problems, Pure 4 was more tricky and Pure 5 was just hard.  I didn't do so well in Pure 4 as I would have liked so I resat it.  Due to working on Pure 5 for a while, the Pure 4 content seemed a breeze the second time around.  I guess it's about transferrable skills, but I have to say that I find some 1D tricks within my reach now having worked on 2 for so long.  I kinda jumped 1 in favour of two, but find myself going back to it to extend myself.  I wonder if jumping to three (if you have the patience) could help with 1 and 2 in terms of control and agility.

But yeah, there's little comparison to what you can catch on a camera after 3 hours, and what you can bust out infront of 500 people on a stage.

Chiok
www.gravityvomit.co.uk - Gravity pulls down, we throw up.
University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

Pete

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3d instants
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2005, 03:26:35 pm »
I wasn't very good with 1d when i started 2d. I should probably have learnt more 1d first.I was very reliable at the things i knew but i only knew a few tricks.

When i was learning 3 low i progressed alot at 1d and 2d because when i got too stressed out to even pick up a third diabolo i settled down by doing some 1d and 2d. I think this helped me a bit. If i had just carried on with 3 even though i was really stressed out i would have made lots of mistakes. Its good to know when to stop.
The tallest trees from acorns grow.