Author Topic: 3d instants  (Read 26574 times)

GbH

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3d instants
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2005, 07:04:35 pm »
Quote from: Pete

As for being pro. Pro is an abreviation of professional. To be a professional diabolist, diabolo has to be your profession (job).
Correct me if i'm wrong.


Whilst I don't think you're wrong, the description can be a bit misleading.  As far as I know, no-one is paid simply to do diabolo and, as such, I'd question whether there is really such thing as a 'professional diabolist'.  True, there are performers, teachers and even salesmen who use diabolos in their work to a greater or lesser degree.  However, they are paid according to their ability to entertain, teach or sell product - aims that aren't necessarily dependent on high levels of technical ability.        

Ultimately, what this means is that the term 'Pro' has little or no significance when it comes to describing a person's level of technical diabolo skill.    

Guy

Chiok

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3d instants
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2005, 07:44:09 pm »
Quote from: Martijn
Hey Chiok, I don't know if you wrote that due to my post? but I just wanted to say that that's not my intention. I try to provide people good information and advice, and they can do with it whatever they want.
Of course, I've always taken your advice and it's always been good.  Love the Circusplanet too, the diabolo videos are gold.  

However, this quest to keep people from getting better sounds interesting.  If you break Niels Coopman's sticks, and I'll take out this Ríku kid and Ofek.  

And this "Professional" topic was brought up on Rec.Juggling before Steven Ragatz left.  Many were divided as to the definition between being paid and conducting yourself in a professional manner.

Respectfully submitted,
Chiok[/u]
www.gravityvomit.co.uk - Gravity pulls down, we throw up.
University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

frank0072

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3d instants
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2005, 08:28:06 pm »
well it seems my question has got a lot of reaction..

I think it's good to think about these things, and make up your mind where you are and where you are going to. Maybe I am taking this a bit to serious, but sometimes serious views can be very enlighting.

I really love the mind-making-connections-theory. I have heard it before, and I am almost certain it is true. The thing said about JiBe compared to someone himself was very good aswell.

Therefor I can conclude (for myself atleast) that;
a. It comes down to a lot of practice
b. Determination is absolutely needed
c. Motivation aswell
d. It depends on what skills you put your time
e. You can't be pro on every level, sometimes you have to make choices (between 3low & 3high for instance)
f. I am taking this way to serious I think, but I like it :)
some people think they are better because they can do something better

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

donald grant

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3d instants
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2005, 09:58:16 pm »
Interesting point, Mr GbH!

Being "pro" has nothing really to do with having attained a particular skill level with the diabolo.  The bloke who does the "chucking it really high" trick busking on a street corner is just as much a professional as the high paid Vegas entertainer.  It's all about being in the fortunate situation of playing with the old bobbin and getting paid for it.  This isn't some kind of international sport where higher skills automatically invite greater contracts/ fame/ financial reward.  If someone from the real world is prepared to offer you cash to do a cat's cradle and a couple of string climbs, there are worse "pro"fessions to be in :D

Donald
(grizzled old "pro", who's quite happy to stick some harder tricks into the number for an extra fiver.......)

arnie

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3d instants
« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2005, 11:53:08 pm »
Being ranked on technical ability with diabolo? Is this not what Jason Garfield has done with the WJF competitions.  If you want to be ranked in a list of what other people think of your diabolo skills just enter that. Problem solved? I don't know if there is a cash prize but if you won then you would be a professional diabolist based soley on technical ability.

TimEllis

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3d instants
« Reply #65 on: December 27, 2005, 05:29:16 pm »
Yep, another long post from another random guy.

I just got my third diabolo yesterday (Christmas present!)  I plan to start practicing my 3d shuffle very soon.....once I figure out where to start.  Now mind you, I've only been diaboloing for a little over a year.  And I've also only been able to do 2d for a little over 3 or 4 months now.  I've got a couple 2d tricks under my belt, and all the corrections, accelerations, etc.  I'm not exactly terrific at it, and I realize that is going to hamper my 3d learning curve.  But does this mean I'm rushing into 3d too soon?  I think not.  I get frustrated when I try a new 1 or 2 diab trick over over over and over again, and still can't get it.  It gets to the point where I'll give up on it temporarily (By that I mean like, for the day).  After that, I'll want to try something else.  Why not try 3d?  It seems like it's just another trick almost....  I can't handle having my mind on one trick, and doing it until I get it perfect.  So, I'll try a bunch of different tricks.  I'll focus on one for a while, and then move on.  So why is learning the 3d shuffle so different from any other trick to learn?  Why do we have to wait until you can do all these different tricks until you're "ready."  

As far as performing is concerned, I have performed to a couple different non-juggling audiences.  I have a nice cute easy little diabolo routine.  Just some 1d tricks, and then a very little 2d section.  Everyone is happy with it, and wow'd.  But guaranteed, at some point someone that night will come up to me, talk about the diabolos, and ask "Well can you do three diabolos???"  And I always feel like I'm disappointing them when I have to say well....no.  To a non-juggling audience, a trick is a trick.  They don't know a hard trick from an easy trick.  Under the leg typically gets just as much applause as my minigenocide combo.  But when I bust out that second diabolo, everyone gasps like "Can he really do  two at the same time?!?"  I feel that once I do a little 2d thing, I can then get out the third, and people will really be shocked.  But that's just me.  And that's a non-juggling audience.  That's why I'll never perform at a festival.  Now, juggling audiences appreciate the technical difficulty of a combo.  That's a different story.  I loved when I saw Yabe perform at Cornell, and he made a miraculous recovery in 2d.  I don't even know how he did it.  But right then, I was the only one clapping.  Nobody else recognized what had happened, and just thought it was part of the act.  Ok, I'll stop ranting.  I agree with Chiok saying "We're a friendly bunch of people.  Let's keep it that way."
Keeping the world safe from boring people,

Tim Ellis

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GbH

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3d instants
« Reply #66 on: December 27, 2005, 08:50:48 pm »
Mr Boss,

My suggestion would be just 'follow your insticts'.  If you're feeling that 3d is what you want to be doing, then you may as well give it a try.  If it works out for you, then great, you'll have set yourself a goal and achieved it.  If not, you'll just join the many others who've given it a go and found it's not for them.

However, one word of warning.  If you're thinking that it'll be 'just another trick', then you're probably going to be in for a shock.  Although the discovery of the wrap start seems to have eased the learning process somewhat, there's still a reason why, even now, relatively few people have managed to get it.  

Good luck - you've got an interesting (not to mention frustrating, tedious, boring and time consuming) journey ahead of you.

Guy

Andy S

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3d instants
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2005, 12:12:54 am »
Nice, I got a third circus for Christmas as well (I probably would've waited to get one til this summer but, well, my parents hadn't read this whole thread  :roll: ).  I only started diaboloing at the beginning of this past summer (1/2 year), so I'm certainly not as good as I'd like at 1 or 2.  Then again, I don't think I'm personally at risk of abandoning 1 and 2; it seems to be a judgment call as GbH said.  

I've decided to never make more than three attempts at 3d before taking a break to do something else.  I get frustrated reasonably quickly, and I mostly want three to put some variety into my practice -- I don't really care how long it takes me to learn it.  (I'm not too interested in performing for now, so that's not an issue.)  After just two days, I understand a wrap start and get decent spacing w/no collisions more than half the time (4 or 5 ott async once!).  I figure I'll just take it slow, put my full concentration into making three good attempts in proper form, and then relax a little.

This is a great discussion representative of a great forum.  Thanks.

-Andy S

Sharpes

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3d instants
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2005, 02:07:07 am »
I'd go with 5 a day, I think with 3 you don't have time to work out any "bad day" kinks (you will still have days of 5 bad runs in a row :wink: , never fear) I know that when I start some days I have 2 to 3 runs where I screw up my start.
Jacob and Nate Sharpe

Andy S

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3d instants
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2005, 02:34:09 am »
Ah, I see I'm not as relaxed as you seem to think.  I just meant no more than three attempts right in a row, not in one day.  In between I could work on other diabolo stuff, do homework, whatever.  I just don't want to make mediocre attempts because I'm getting tired from all the accelerations.  

7 ott just now by the way  :D

-Andy

TimEllis

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3d instants
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2005, 06:36:33 am »
Quote from: GbH

you've got an interesting (not to mention frustrating, tedious, boring and time consuming) journey ahead of you.


Well if it wasn't all those things, it'd be easy, and that's just not what juggling is about!  And of course, I wasn't planning on putting a whole lot of serious time into it yet.  Just kind of poke around at it.....maybe learn a thing or two.  If I were to focus completely, I would probably frustrate myself out of diabolo alltogether!
Keeping the world safe from boring people,

Tim Ellis

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http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TimEllis

Mick Lunzer

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instant 3d
« Reply #71 on: January 09, 2006, 08:47:51 pm »
I just caught this thread. I really have heard it all before, in 1989. I was around when Jeff Mason First performed two diabolos. The conversation went a lot like it is going now. I started on two diabolos as soon as I could. People were telling me I should slow down and learn more with one. They said two isn't all its cracked up to be. It was limited. I had a number of fellow jugglers say they refuse to learn two because it was the latest fashion they wouldn't buy into. They said it has become meaningless because so many people were doing it. By the way, none of these people went far with their skills. For me, after learning two diabolos, going back and getting "depth" with one, was a cake walk, in fact it helped me come up with new stuff for 1d.

If you only know one 2d trick and your natural energy is toward 3d. Do it now. Going back and getting "depth" with 2d will be a cake walk.
I can tell you for a fact, that thats how it went with 2d and 1d for me.

If you can do 3d and tell others they should wait, I suspect you want to keep your trick more exclusive.

If you can't do 3d and you discourage others, I suspect you might feel better if you were'nt the only one who can't do it.

I am working hard on three low with slow progress. If someone gets to 4 and 5 low before I do, I will jump on those trains without waisting a moment debating if I should gain more depth with 3.

Sometime the "holes in our foundation" help us look at the structure differently. This is often where innovation comes from.

So here's to 3d the latest greatest fashion!
-Mick

Nathan

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3d instants
« Reply #72 on: January 10, 2006, 02:35:52 am »
With regard to amount of 3d practicing/day, I think it depends on what kind of person you are. If you get frustrated easily, don't go at it like a maniac. If you just can't rest until you get it right, then go for it. The latter attitude may be the reason for the "instants" this thread discussed.

If you try 3d for an hour and can't get it, then have to go punch a pillow to calm down, you should stop trying so hard, and go at a comfortable pace. But realize the people who are driven enough to practice for hours and hours a day (jacob) will advance more rapidly.

Differences in personality will result in differences in practice habits, which in turn will result in differences in skill level. (technical skill, not performance skill)

Point  of interest: The day I got my first "real" run of three (40+ ott), It was past midnight, and I had been trying for several hours. I didn't get stressed at failing so much, and when I finally got it, I danced around the house. Now I perform three regularly.

Mick Lunzer

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3d instants
« Reply #73 on: January 10, 2006, 04:42:20 am »
Nathan,
 Thanks for the tips :D  3d seems to be a hard road. Maybe we should develop a Fresh thread on all the tips for learning 3d rather than discuss whether it should be done or not. That way the people who are interested can learn from those who are doing it. And we can let everyone who isn't interested debate if we are ready to do 3d or not. If there is already such a thread I haven't found it. I'm pretty new. :)


p.s.
I really like the smiley guys 8)

Chiok

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3d instants
« Reply #74 on: January 10, 2006, 09:25:34 am »
Quote from: Mick Lunzer
If there is already such a thread I haven't found it. I'm pretty new. :)
The Trick and Video Archive has some links in the Three or More section with topics about help with 3 Async, 3 sync, suns, wrap starts etc.  I think it should be all in there.  Quite a read unfortunately, alot to go through.  But a good sentiment nevertheless.

Your best option if you're not sure is to try the Search function at the top in the Nav Bar, type in a couple of general terms and see what happens.  Alot of the time they'll be something on it.  There's 1000's of posts.
Quote from: Mick Lunzer
p.s.
I really like the smiley guys 8)
You be careful there... There's a limter...  Welcome to the Forum!

Chiok
www.gravityvomit.co.uk - Gravity pulls down, we throw up.
University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

madmanjuggler

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3d instants
« Reply #75 on: January 10, 2006, 04:55:34 pm »
Quote
I can then get out the third, and people will really be shocked.


hmmm i dunno, if someone asks me if i can do 2 when im doing one people ask me then if i can do three. I reckon if you got that third out they would want to see 4. Maybe im wrong

Chris

GbH

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3d instants
« Reply #76 on: January 10, 2006, 05:41:48 pm »
Quote from: madmanjuggler
 <snip> ....  I reckon if you got that third out they would want to see 4. Maybe im wrong

Chris


No, you're not wrong.   :(

Jester

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3d instants
« Reply #77 on: January 11, 2006, 06:45:07 am »
thats the central fallacy of juggling

people ( lets call them Muggles/Punters )

always ask exactly that question or something like it



one day some guy i'd never seen before walked up to me and said "show me your best trick" so then i did and he looked shocked for a while then walked off

but now that i've thought about it i'm working on a new trick for when someone asks me that question

the middle finger diabolo grind

Does that make me a bad person?
do it, do it ,do it, DO IT!

arnie

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3d instants
« Reply #78 on: January 11, 2006, 05:24:51 pm »
People do ask that but its quite easy to explain. I have found that explaining how hard three is before doing it isn't the way to do it either because people think I am then showing off about it (it took enough time why shouldn't we show it off lol). I have found the best approach to be to say I'm working on three and i'd like to show it to you because then when you do it they appreciate it more that you have tried something that you find difficult. It also suggests to them that I don't do four. Also if someone asks if you do four I also just say "No, can you?" but you have to say it in the right tone!

Steve

No i can't afford a fifth  :wink:

GbH

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3d instants
« Reply #79 on: January 11, 2006, 05:34:12 pm »
Quote from: arnie


<snip>

No i can't afford a fifth  :wink:


Yeah - LOL.  I've been "saving up for the fourth one" for ages.  For some reason, the other 50+ sat in my cupboard get temporarily forgotten about.