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Diabolo.ca Forums => Tricks => Topic started by: Arjan on December 07, 2004, 09:35:52 PM

Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Arjan on December 07, 2004, 09:35:52 PM
Hello,

I need some advise on my fan 180. It just doesn`t work really.
So I`m talking about a normal fan, done at the normal side (for me right, I`m a lefty)
Can someone help me?
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Sean on December 07, 2004, 11:10:31 PM
Tahia seems to be one of the better (non-Japanese) fan 360 experts out there. Care to film a tutorial for us Tahia?

Here's a bit of footage I have of Chris Heckman, who probably has the most solid fan 360 in North America, with Matt Hall a close second (I'm not even on the list ;) ). I see that Chris has signed up to the forum. You out there Chris? We'd love to hear from you.

It's the fan 360, shot from 3 different viewpoints. I thought it would help in figuring out what's going on during the trick. If you've seen the IJA 2004 video I did, you've already seen the footage. I just put it together this time with some slow motion added. After all, what better things do I have to do with exams coming up? :roll:

http://diabolo.ca/video/temp/fan360_3views.mpg (6.8 MB)

Sean
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Arjan on December 07, 2004, 11:25:33 PM
Thnx Sean! I would love this to be able to do this.

Notice the guy in the back with the diabolo`s under his arm walk frusrated away in the second scene  :)
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Punkerpanda on December 07, 2004, 11:43:11 PM
sean, do you know what song that is? i really like it
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Arjan on December 07, 2004, 11:46:23 PM
Indeed nice music! He would be sure able to tell, I`m sure.
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Sean on December 07, 2004, 11:59:24 PM
It's by the Blue Man Group (http://www.blueman.com/music/). That song is called 'Exhibit 13'. I also used music by them in my fan tutorial video (http://diabolo.ca/video.htm#fanentry) and in the s-fan entry/exit trick (http://diabolo.ca/video.htm#fanentry) version that is on my site. All their music is made with homemade instruments such as tubes, whips, and swinging poles (http://www.blueman.com/music/instruments.shtml). Some of their music has lots of whipping sounds in it that could work well with diabolo videos.

Edit - You can listen to the entire song and see the music video at:
http://www.exhibit13.com/


Sean
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Tahia on December 08, 2004, 07:11:21 AM
well in two week i'll try to do a tutorial for 180 Fan 360 Fan 540 fan 720 fan 900 fan and 1080 Fan of course :D  8) !!
thank for saying "one of the better (non-Japanese) fan 360 experts out there" it's too for me  :oops:  !!!
 i've somme idea to do the tutorial ;)!!
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Elmeri on December 08, 2004, 09:01:48 AM
I´m pretty confused about s- and c-fans.
What is the difference?
 My s-fan sucks and I haven´t tried c.
 I can try to do few videos later this week, about my fans and 3d start, and hopefully somebody could analyse them, but first I gotta do them.
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: seán_ on December 08, 2004, 04:07:49 PM
Basically a C-fan is the regular fan, the pattern the string makes passing over both axles is 'C' shaped. in this fan one diabolo gains some speed but the other looses speed so it can't be kept in a fan for very long.
The S fan you get one of the diabolos on the darkside of the string so that the string forms an 'S' shape, this fan can be kept going for longer because both diabolos gain speed but it is harder to exit from.

Check here for a list of posts about different tricks including C fans and S fans
 Trick & video archive  (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=149)
Sean has an excellant couple of videos on Fans and S fan exits, you can find them in there too.

Seán_
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Elmeri on December 08, 2004, 08:08:33 PM
Sorry I mixed c and s...
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Arjan on December 08, 2004, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: seán_
Basically a C-fan is the regular fan, the pattern the string makes passing over both axles is 'C' shaped. in this fan one diabolo gains some speed but the other looses speed so it can't be kept in a fan for very long.
The S fan you get one of the diabolos on the darkside of the string so that the string forms an 'S' shape, this fan can be kept going for longer because both diabolos gain speed but it is harder to exit from.

Check here for a list of posts about different tricks including C fans and S fans
 Trick & video archive  (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=149)
Sean has an excellant couple of videos on Fans and S fan exits, you can find them in there too.

Seán_


To my understanding, a C-fan is not a regular fan. Because there is not wrap involved. It`s like a sun, but then different.
To my knowledge, there a 3 fan theories:
regular fan
C-fan
S-fan

then, with the theories, they could all be reversed, anti clockwise, clockwise and so on.

anyway, check out this: [trick]Fan done by Priam (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=48)
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Tahia on December 09, 2004, 11:36:18 AM
well i do the regular fan now but to do the 180 fan  the C fan is better... S fan is hard to do in 180 and regular too :D!! sometime i do 360 with the 3 fan but it's not easy :D
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: seán_ on December 09, 2004, 01:43:39 PM
Quote from: Arjan


To my understanding, a C-fan is not a regular fan. Because there is not wrap involved. It`s like a sun, but then different.
To my knowledge, there a 3 fan theories:
regular fan
C-fan
S-fan

then, with the theories, they could all be reversed, anti clockwise, clockwise and so on.

anyway, check out this: [trick]Fan done by Priam (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=48)


Well that tells me then :) so if I try the three entrys into fans from Seans tutorial http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=20
of
Quote from: Sean

Three methods of starting the fan are featured:
1. Backwrapping one diabolo (or using a stopover) with the left stick for right handed diaboloists.
2. Using an armstall. This method is easy to get the motion started with but difficult to line up at first.
3. Vortexing into the fan. This method is probably the easiest once you have learned the vortex, although the vortex may be challenging to learn in itself.

then 1 and 3 involve wraps, 2 doesent yet is not a C fan? I'm still confused.

And I still haven't a clue about how to do a 180. I suppose it will all become clear with Tahias tutorial.
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Dave P on December 09, 2004, 02:34:44 PM
Sorry to be holding back the rest of the class, but what exactly is a "regular" fan. :?  :oops:
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Tahia on December 09, 2004, 03:51:23 PM
http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=48

here you can see whatr is a regular fan :p!!

for the tutorial be patient the next  week i promise ;)
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Sean on December 09, 2004, 04:03:46 PM
OK, to clear up some things:

C-Fan (to the best of my knowledge) stands for Clockwise-Fan. This is opposed to AC-Fan which stands for AntiClockwise-Fan. The S in S-Fan represents the shape of the string around the diabolos.

I don't know what a proper definition of a 'regular' fan would be. The traditional fan for a right handed person is the anticlockwise fan (AC-Fan) on the left side. The traditional fan for a left handed person is a clockwise fan (C-Fan) on the right side.

I think you could classify all fans in which there is a half twist in the string on one diabolo as 'regular' fans. It doesn't matter which of the 3 methods from my video you use to get into the fan... the resulting fan is identical. The only "wrap" is the half twist of string on one diabolo. For the traditional right handed diabolist anticlockwise fan, the wrap is on the left diabolo and it is this diabolo that will slow down.

Now I think the C and AC fans usually correspond to the 'regular' fans, although I suppose theoretically we could classify anticlockwise S-Fans as S,AC-Fans and so on. This gets reduntant though, since only anticlockwise  S-Fans will speed up both diabolos and are therefore useful. The clockwise S-Fan will slow down both diabolos.

Sean
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Dave P on December 09, 2004, 04:44:13 PM
The more I learn the less I know!
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Arjan on December 09, 2004, 04:54:40 PM
Sean, about what fan was Priam talking in that topic I started. I believe a C--Fan without wrap. This is still a mysterie for me.
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Sean on December 09, 2004, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: Arjan
Sean, about what fan was Priam talking in that topic I started. I believe a C--Fan without wrap.

No, it's just a plain C-Fan (Clockwise Fan) on the left. You can start or transition into any fan from a sun. Some are just easier than others. Priam's start is a 'trick start'. As long as both diabolos are on the same side of the string there will always be at least one half twist around one of the diabolos in  the fan. When you transition into a sun from a fan you will lose the half twist of string.

Of the 'regular' fans there are 4 main combinations. C-Fan on the right, C-Fan on the left, AC-Fan on the right, AC-Fan on the left. That's it. Maybe a good topic for a video tutorial some day. (I need to get better at some of them first if I'm going to do it though :P  )
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Dave P on December 09, 2004, 05:04:15 PM
Quote from: Sean
The clockwise S-Fan will slow down both diabolos.

Sean


I may be loosing my marbles here but, I think you should be able to drive the diabolos so long as its still the left one on the darkside. Don't ask me how you could get in and out of this. There would be more twist in the string so "s" may not cut it any more. Good luck trying!
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Sean on December 09, 2004, 05:19:24 PM
Wow, my brain is starting to hurt! ;)

Well, I think it is not possible to have a clockwise s-fan (with no extra twists in the string) with the left diabolo on the darkside of the string. When you switch the direction of the s-fan to the clockwise direction I *think* that the diabolo on the darkside of the string would technically change. Am I wrong here? Quite possibly. But I believe you are right that with extra twists you could have a clockwise fan that speeds up the diabolos.

Somebody could do a PhD in mathematics on diabolo fan string theory... maybe I'm in the wrong field - sounds like that's where the fun is. :)

Confusing stuff, huh?
Title: PhD's
Post by: Matt_H on December 09, 2004, 05:37:14 PM
Well i just got my PhD in physics 2 days ago so i'll try and work it out :D



Matt_H
Title: Re: PhD's
Post by: seán_ on December 09, 2004, 05:40:04 PM
Quote from: Matt_H
Well i just got my PhD in physics 2 days ago so i'll try and work it out :D



Matt_H


Congratulations Dr Matt_H

The string theory you learnt on your Astrophysics degree might come in handy here as well :)
Title: hehehehe
Post by: Matt_H on December 09, 2004, 05:44:23 PM
You may well joke but i have done some 'string' theory, but it all ends up in 23 dimentions if your not carefull and diabolo is difficult enough in 3 dimensions sometimes  :wink:
Title: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: JGherkin on December 09, 2004, 05:54:21 PM
My S-Fans clockwise!  :P  Its the anti clockwise one that would slow them down for me hehe
Title: i hope this week end ! New video plus Fan 360 tutorial
Post by: Tahia on December 13, 2004, 12:34:09 PM
i film that this week :) and it will be a real video with my real skill ;)!!*and sure a little part of my 3 diabolo shuffle :)
and a tutrorial 180 and 360 fan  ;)have a nice week :)
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Roland on December 01, 2006, 11:34:20 PM
okay, so I understand all the c/ac/s stuff, but what's the difference between 180/360/etc?
is it just the number of rotations, or how many times the diabolos are wrapped?
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Squiggle on December 02, 2006, 02:52:31 AM
180 , 360 etc  is just the amount of rotation that you turn.

180 is a 180 degree turn. So a half tun

360 full turn

720 douple full turn

Etc.
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Christopher on December 06, 2006, 09:34:35 AM
is it easier to learn the  left c-fan before learning the right ac fan?
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: martijn on December 06, 2006, 12:42:57 PM
I think so yeah, it'll get you used to the motion, and it's easier to enter and exit.
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Sean on December 07, 2006, 03:07:06 AM
Personally I learned the right AC-fan (by starting with a left AC-fan and turning 180) long before I got the left C-fan. I'd keep trying both and see what works for you.

I learned the right c-fan quite quickly (probably because there are so many easy entries) and just recently realized that it isn't that hard to turn that 180 and end up in a left c-fan. I think starting a left c-fan can be difficult for many people from all those years of left suns being ingrained in them.
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: mo3 on May 14, 2007, 12:22:30 PM
Hey People, I'm sorry to bump this old thread but does someone have the video from seans first post?

The one with the 3 different camera angles? I'm just learning the 360 fan but everything messes up with
the last turn ( the second 180 ). Maybe this video could help me :D

So please, reupload if you can!

thanks in advance, mo3


*EDIT* Ok i figured it out myself, so I don't need it anymore ( THX TO SPARX :P ) but I think it still would
be nice for everyone who wants to learn the 360!
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Niclas on February 29, 2008, 12:06:01 PM
How to exit a ac fan 180?

I'm sorry to bump this old thread!
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Diabolo88 on February 29, 2008, 12:15:33 PM
As far as I know you cannot exit an AC-fan (I´m assuming you´re talking about a normal fan now) directly after a 180 because there will be a twist of the string at 180. You need to go the full 360 around. Maybe there is someone who has come up with a way, but I haven´t seen it.
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Diabolo Bro on February 29, 2008, 12:55:14 PM
No there's a way, hasn't anyone seen diabology, prim does it in his 180 fan explanation, there is no twist, you simply wrap the diabolo you right hand is controling, easier seen then explained.
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Diabolo88 on February 29, 2008, 02:28:52 PM
Quote
No there's a way, hasn't anyone seen diabology, prim does it in his 180 fan explanation, there is no twist, you simply wrap the diabolo you right hand is controling, easier seen then explained.

Must´ve missed that. Oh well, now you´ve given me a reason to dust that one off and watch again ;D.
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: William on February 29, 2008, 10:51:12 PM
I just stop doing mine and it ends up with a left frontwrap on the left diabolo. Then just transfer out.
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: vito on June 05, 2008, 11:56:28 PM
Did Tahia ever finished the video??...the links seems to be broken
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Eric Moffett on June 06, 2008, 01:47:03 AM
this would have been so useful for figuring out fan 360 too bad i finally learned it on my own =/ and yes the link is broken
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: nev on June 06, 2008, 08:51:40 AM
Temp link - thanks to Tahia for the original video

www.diabolomoves.com/video/temp/360_fan_tutorial.wmv (http://www.diabolomoves.com/video/temp/360_fan_tutorial.wmv) (right click save as please)
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Sean on June 06, 2008, 12:52:42 PM
Looks like it's still available in the original thread in the 'tutorials' section:
http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=211.0

Somewhere on jongle.net way back in the day I remember -Fred- put up a good video on how he learned the fan 360. Not sure where to even start looking though.
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: vito on June 06, 2008, 02:54:17 PM
thx a lot
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: Green on August 15, 2008, 05:07:59 AM
Hello,
i'm trying to do the fan 180 lately, but everytime when i try to pull the right side diabolo to me, the left diabolo just get a right backwrap, i've tried to figure it out for two weeks(about 2.5 hours per day for just practicing fan 1860), but i still can't do it.
Could anyone please help me?
Thank you!
Title: Re: Fan 180 or more> How to?
Post by: alfster48 on April 01, 2009, 02:59:48 PM
hi, my name is alfie charles.
i am a 14 year old boy and have started diabolo from december 07'
i have a youtube acount with some videos of me.
i am inspired by every diaboloist on diabolo.ca


i would be very grateful if you guys could tell me what i am doing wrong when i am trying to land a 180 fan.

thank you guys so much.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIAAkOoee2Y#lq-lq2-hq-vhq]Fan 180 Help] (http://[/url)Fan 180 Help (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIAAkOoee2Y#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)
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