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Diabolo.ca Forums => Gear => Topic started by: nev on September 04, 2007, 05:35:43 PM

Title: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: nev on September 04, 2007, 05:35:43 PM
The new diabolo from Sundia (makers of the Fly) is here.

The Sun Series is a rubber cupped diabolo with the same shape and feel of the Fly but this time the cups are a much more durable rubber material which should stand up to a lot more abuse on concrete etc.

The downside (for some) is that it is fixed axle only (no bearing option) - It has the more durable stainless steel axle from the Fly fixed axle set.

(http://www.diabolomoves.co.uk/Pics/Sun Black.JPG)(http://www.diabolomoves.co.uk/pics/Sun 4.jpg)

Colours out so far are White, Black, Green, Blue ,Crystal (transparent), Red, Yellow, Orange & Pink
All are in stock at www.diabolomoves.co.uk
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: barnesy on September 04, 2007, 06:32:32 PM
I'm very tempted.   But how does the plastic/rubber feel compared to other makes?  Is it like Taibolos?  It looks too shiny to be like Henrys, but it's not easy to tell from a picture. 
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Duncan on September 04, 2007, 06:49:52 PM
I think I'm about to become very poor when I go to manchester this Thursday :(
These look much more appealing than Taibolo's in my mind.

Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: martijn on September 04, 2007, 06:58:54 PM
You really know how to keep us buying don't ya ;) I'll probably get one together with a Taibolo :) A little OT, but how's that Sundia string? What does it compare to?
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Ben. on September 04, 2007, 07:52:46 PM
also how are the sundia carbons?
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Eric Moffett on September 05, 2007, 12:31:49 AM
I sure you could mess around with parts and make them bearings too! ;D
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Brian_DK on September 05, 2007, 12:40:41 AM
A little OT, but how's that Sundia string? What does it compare to?

The string is roughly 50% thicker than Henry's yellow I reckon with a core, it isn't as smooth as Henry's, and it actually feels a bit heavier to play with in my opinion. I think it takes some time to get used to, my Chinese speed snaps/whippings wrap up a lot easier, but I'm not too good at those though. The colours are very nice I think, I have the pink and blue.

also how are the sundia carbons?

I have got the white carbons, long version. The length is actually the same as Henry's short carbon sticks. I think they feel and play almost the same. The tips on Sundia's sticks don't look as good and elegant as on Henry's, they are more square looking but I believe it's only cosmetics and has no real effect when you play with them. Sundia's sticks have one advantage over Henry's though, the hole in the end of the stick is a bit larger which enables the knot on the string to rotate more freely, even with Sundia's thicker strings. Other than that they are very similar I think.

Hope it helps.

Cheers,
Brian
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: nev on September 05, 2007, 09:33:34 AM
The string looks and plays very much like MB with a few less tangles.  All the colours are UV reactive.

The sticks are nice - the short are 32cm long (henry's alu's are 33cm and short carbons 35cm).  The shaft diameter (OD) is 6.5mm - same as henry's alu's and significantly thinner than henry's carbons at 8mm, but the carbon wall is thicker so they actually feel sturdier and stiffer.  I'd imagine they will be more durable also due to the extra amount of carbon in them.

The long are 35cm (same as Henry's short carbons) but are otherwise the same as the short.

The cup material is similar to the Taibolo and the old Diabigs - it seems very durable and the finish (not just the shine) is very high.  There is a nice big outer rim too and the washer sits flush within a recess (a nice touch and great for UFO's)
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Matt D on September 05, 2007, 03:04:55 PM
I have been wanting to get some fix axled fly's for so long but I haven't had the money but now that these are out I will try to save up for them instead.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: William on September 06, 2007, 07:42:31 AM
Meista, please order some ;) I'd buy these instead of flys if you did.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: norbi on September 06, 2007, 10:18:21 AM
Any chance the light kits will fit nicely on a diabig?
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: nev on September 06, 2007, 10:43:59 AM
Any chance the light kits will fit nicely on a diabig?

They would need a little modding I think - If I remember correctly the diabig bolt only has a nut at one end (ie. its a bolt and one nut rather than a threaded bar and two nuts).  The bolt diameter is the same at 5mm but I'd have to check on the thread gauge.  One of the various Fly bolts may be the right length to fit on the diabig - then the lights would fit fine - I'll check later for you when I can take a diabig to bits.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Nahxela on September 15, 2007, 01:32:41 AM
Well, I went to the Sundia website, and it turns out my previously unknown 三鈴 diabolo was a Sundia after all.
But the only difference is that mine doesn't have those pretty hubs... When I picked mine up in Taiwan it just came with the standard diabolo materials (Plain Hubs, Cups, Axle, Screw, Nuts, etc.).

I like these very much, they play pretty much like a fixed Fly and look the part, too. They get good spin and have very good balance along with a decently sized axle that's good for grinds. In fact, I like to think it's the step between fixed axles and bearings (if that makes sense at all...)
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: David - SAS1 on September 15, 2007, 08:38:22 PM
If the axels are taken from the fly's then could the bearing axel just be fitted on
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Shaun on September 16, 2007, 03:30:46 AM
If the axels are taken from the fly's then could the bearing axel just be fitted on
hope so, that would be handy, ive already got 4 flys with 3 sun series diabs in the mail, cant wait to try em out.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: nev on September 16, 2007, 10:03:16 AM
If the axels are taken from the fly's then could the bearing axel just be fitted on

No
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: David - SAS1 on September 17, 2007, 02:17:12 PM
No

Well that's a shame but I might have to buy some all the same so that my fly's don't get completely destroyed
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Nahxela on September 17, 2007, 11:11:57 PM
Well, if you're deciding between flys and sundias, I would go for the Flys.
They seem more balanced to me... And you can customize them easily :)
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Shaun on September 18, 2007, 05:46:28 AM
Well, if you're deciding between flys and sundias, I would go for the Flys.
They seem more balanced to me... And you can customize them easily :)
i think you mean Sundia Flys and Sundia Suns. ive fixed the axles on my flys anyway, so if i dont like the Suns, i suppose ill just sell them, we'll see...
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Nahxela on September 19, 2007, 12:53:39 AM
i think you mean Sundia Flys and Sundia Suns. ive fixed the axles on my flys anyway, so if i dont like the Suns, i suppose ill just sell them, we'll see...
Oh, right, my mistake ::).

Well, the Flys are probably better overall, since (I think) Sundia Suns were a prototype of the Fly, since I met with a friend of Yabe's (Zhang Yao Wen of TPEC, if I recall correctly) in Taiwan who had helped to design the Fly. Although my Chinese isn't too great (I'm still learning), so some stuff might've been lost in translation...
Plus Flys are customizable with light kits, weight kits, and interchangeable axles :).
I think Suns only have a weight kit, if anything.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Duncan on September 19, 2007, 07:59:20 AM
I've been messing with the Suns for a few weeks now and I can say that they're a nice set for anyone looking for a diab with a bit of extra weight to make things lazy (sean_) or concrete resistant. They play a lot like hard-shelled circus diabs. 3low is very nice with them, and 1 and 2 are just fine thanks to the extra weight. The Flys are more customizable, but the Sun won't let you down at all. They're not for everyone, in my opinion, but they'll suit circus people (or those still stuck on harlequins) fine.

Note, the black diab seems to mark up whatever it touches like the purple taibolo, so no using it with something markable in the near vicinity.

-Duncan
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Shaun on September 19, 2007, 09:15:52 AM
nice little critique there duncan. the suns are starting to sound like a disappointment (compared to flys). would be nice to some how combine the two.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: nev on September 19, 2007, 09:19:53 AM
Well, the Flys are probably better overall, since (I think) Sundia Suns were a prototype of the Fly

Wrong - The Sun Series is Sundia's BRAND NEW diabolo and has only been available a few weeks now, it is definately NOT a prototype of the fly (if anything its the other way round) - the diabolo you have is probably an older version of the Fly as there have been a few improvements / modifications to that model over the years to get to the current one.

Also - the light kits fit the Sun too, and there are lighter axles and washers also to reduce the weight so they are also customizable (just no bearing option).

In short the Sun is a fixed axle diabolo which plays like a fixed axle Fly BUT with the extra durability of a Circus for use on concrete or other hard surfaces.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Duncan on September 19, 2007, 02:35:41 PM
the suns are starting to sound like a disappointment (compared to flys).

I wouldn't say they're a disappointment. They're simply different from each other. Fly's take concrete like butter takes a hot knife, so I bought a set of Suns to have the Fly playability and concrete resistance.

Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Nahxela on September 19, 2007, 11:11:11 PM
Wrong - The Sun Series is Sundia's BRAND NEW diabolo and has only been available a few weeks now, it is definately NOT a prototype of the fly (if anything its the other way round) - the diabolo you have is probably an older version of the Fly as there have been a few improvements / modifications to that model over the years to get to the current one.

Also - the light kits fit the Sun too, and there are lighter axles and washers also to reduce the weight so they are also customizable (just no bearing option).
Hmm... All these Sundia brand diabolos look so much alike...

I don't suppose you have the Chinese name for the Sundia Suns? Since I seem to know my Chinese/Taiwanese diabolos better if I know their names in Chinese (Symbols would be nice, but Pinyin is ok), much appreciated if you could get me that name.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Matt D on September 21, 2007, 05:18:24 AM
THose crystal suns look awesome, but are they still made of rubber ???
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Shaun on September 21, 2007, 08:05:28 AM
crystal suns look awesome!!
I finally got my suns, but im going to just continue with the flys, sell the suns
The suns are a good diabolo, it has a few differences in mold and parts than the flys, in many ways better, but im content with flys for now.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Chiok on September 24, 2007, 12:50:12 AM
Cor blimey, I  might have to get some of those Crystal Suns just for the hell of it.  As long as they can be kept scratchless so they don't end up looking like a battered Diabig.  What's the scuffability of the Suns?

Chiok
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Duncan on September 24, 2007, 07:38:25 AM
What's the scuffability of the Suns?

My white Sun looks like a harlequin after taking some black streaks from my black Suns. They take the concrete, but they get sharp edges on them that make vertax (for me) nearly suicidal. They probably take it just like a diabig. If I bought a bit of sandpaper, it would probably fix the edge problem.

For the most part, my black ones are in better shape - I can still see my reflection out of them, albeit barely. I didn't buy them, however, to keep them looking nice.

So whatever you do, keep that crystal Sun off concrete at all costs and it should look fine.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: tommi on October 05, 2007, 01:12:19 PM
Also - the light kits fit the Sun too, and there are lighter axles and washers also to reduce the weight so they are also customizable (just no bearing option).

The black ones in the shop? I would love an all-black sun diabolo  :P.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Christopher on October 05, 2007, 03:36:43 PM
Hmm... All these Sundia brand diabolos look so much alike...

I don't suppose you have the Chinese name for the Sundia Suns? Since I seem to know my Chinese/Taiwanese diabolos better if I know their names in Chinese (Symbols would be nice, but Pinyin is ok), much appreciated if you could get me that name.

There is nothing on Sundia's site that metions the sun series, but it literally translates to "
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Nahxela on October 05, 2007, 07:53:48 PM
There is nothing on Sundia's site that metions the sun series, but it literally translates to "
I know ;), I went to the sit a couple of times and they seem primarily focused on Flys and the traditional Chinese Yoyo in that section (plus the sticks).
And I was asking for the name of the Suns in Chinese/Pinyin, not the translation.
The translation is usually literal with these diabolos (i.e. the Fly Diabolo is literally that in Chinese).
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Asa (Formerly Legault) on October 05, 2007, 11:11:50 PM
Could you mod it with a spinabolo or fly axle?
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Shaun on October 06, 2007, 01:02:28 AM
I've briefly played around with the Sun and Fly parts, and I couldn't properly make a Sun diabolo have bearing mode, don't know about spinabolo though.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Christopher on October 06, 2007, 03:29:07 AM
I know ;), I went to the sit a couple of times and they seem primarily focused on Flys and the traditional Chinese Yoyo in that section (plus the sticks).
And I was asking for the name of the Suns in Chinese/Pinyin, not the translation.
The translation is usually literal with these diabolos (i.e. the Fly Diabolo is literally that in Chinese).
why don't you try "san1 ling2 tai4 yang2 xi4 lie4 che3 ling2", just call them this first or mabye send an email to Sundia(filling.yu@msa.hinet.net) to find out the excact name
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: BMW on October 16, 2007, 01:41:07 AM
Finally, I got my Crystal Sun. It's wonderful shape and good steadily. I love it.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Asa (Formerly Legault) on October 16, 2007, 02:31:05 AM
I wanted to say, ill trade my two mint condition finesses for a crystal sun and some good handsticks (Aluminum, Carbon, Crystal, any of the sort.) and if you dont want to trade the handsticks too I'll just trade em for the sun (I just really, dont like finesses)
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: The_New_diaboloist on October 27, 2007, 12:21:52 AM
So from what I gathered, Suns are like Circus's (rubber cups), only a little lighter.

What I'm looking for is a good diabolo that is a bit lighted than  Circus, and has plastic hubs (275g would be great, and these Suns are perfect). I use Alu's, and now my new string wares down past peak grip in nearly three days (due to the marked up metal hubs).

Questions:

Are the rubber cups durable? For example, could it drop or get pushed on a little and come back to its normal shape? Is the flexibility more like a circus or a finesse?

Like I said, I need plastic hubs, or hubs that don't dent/mark easily. I think these hubs are aluminum, but has anyone experienced aluminum sticks-on-axle to create dents?

I heard that the Flys spin well, and feel very stable, do these Suns offer the same effect?

Lastly, since I'm used to Circus's, do you all think that these would be a good fit for me? Or would you recommend a Finesse?

Thanks,

TND
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: nev on October 28, 2007, 02:57:29 PM
Firstly the Suns are 290g as standard, but you can fit the Fly washers to reduce the weight to approx 275g

1. The rubber cups are very durable - like a circus / diabig on the flexibility more than a finesse.
2. The Suns have plastic hubs - the axle part is stainless steel - so there is not much chance of any denting etc.
3. The Suns feel very much like a fixed Fly due to them sharing the shame axle shape - if anything even more stable because of the extra weight.  They will spin faster than a circus and get up to speed very quickly.
4. If you are used to stock circus (with the heavy metal hubs) then you should like the Suns as they come.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: onewheeldave on November 03, 2007, 09:29:19 PM
Nev- Do the light kits fit Sundai Suns, or are they just for the Flys?

If they don't (fit the Sundai suns), are there likely to be ones available in the near future?

(Incidently- I'm super-happy with the two blue sundais I bought from you at the manchester convention- initially they felt on the heavy side but I quickly acclimatised; the axles are the best I've used and the cups material is very good and seems to be long-lasting).
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: seán_ on November 03, 2007, 09:45:25 PM
Nev has his crystal Suns fitted with light kits, you need the washers from a fly that the sundai kits fit to.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: William on November 03, 2007, 11:08:53 PM
Aww.
I wanna see a video of that. Crystal Suns with light kits would be so nice. With some of Peter's light sticks.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: jacky on November 04, 2007, 08:40:20 AM
so that website charge in USD or other?
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: iroQuai on November 04, 2007, 01:48:16 PM
I believe its English pounds...
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: nev on November 04, 2007, 02:43:34 PM
Nev- Do the light kits fit Sundai Suns, or are they just for the Flys?
The Sundia LED's fit both the Fly and the Sun diabolos (the blue and green suns are translucent - the black & white are not - so black & white won't shine through the cups - all the Fly colours except black are translucent) - obviously the LED's work best in the Crystal Suns & Glow Fly's
Nev has his crystal Suns fitted with light kits, you need the washers from a fly that the sundai kits fit to.
You don't need the Fly washers - the LED's fit on the standard Sun just fine - I change the metal washer for the fly plastic ones simply to keep the weight down.
I wanna see a video of that. Crystal Suns with light kits would be so nice. With some of Peter's light sticks.
I filmed some impromptu stuff of Garner & Pete at Durham with LED crystal suns and Peters sticks - unfortunately its still sitting on my DV tape, haven't even had time to view it yet.  I'll get round to it soon ;)
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: William on November 05, 2007, 08:33:59 AM
You champion.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: wilyspin on November 07, 2007, 06:01:12 PM
Wrong - The Sun Series is Sundia's BRAND NEW diabolo and has only been available a few weeks now, it is definitely NOT a prototype of the fly (if anything its the other way round) - the diabolo you have is probably an older version of the Fly as there have been a few improvements / modifications to that model over the years to get to the current one.

Also - the light kits fit the Sun too, and there are lighter axles and washers also to reduce the weight so they are also customizable (just no bearing option).

NEV - I am interested in the Sundia sun's but would like to get the weight into the 260-275 range...can this be done? and how so? (does it mean affecting the durability?)

Thanks
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: William on November 08, 2007, 07:31:39 AM
Put your text outside the [/quote] tag
Title: New Colours For Suns
Post by: Christopher on December 03, 2007, 01:07:36 PM
I've just looked through Naranja and found some new colours of the Suns.  There is orange, yellow and crystal coloured ones available.  I wonder if the Crystal coloured ones are also limited.

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/web/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fnaranja.co.jp%2Fjuggling&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Duncan on December 03, 2007, 01:24:15 PM
Any chance of getting these over here, Nev?
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: onewheeldave on December 03, 2007, 06:09:03 PM
The Sundia Suns are still my favourite diabolo- I've got Fly's and Tiabolos, but it's the Sundias that I use on a daily basis (much prefer them over Henry's and Finesse as well).

As a little bit of consumer feedback though, I have noticed one little problem- not so much for me as I've got the necessary tools to rectify it when it arises, but, for a newbie it could be an issue.

Basically, at least one of my Suns has fallen in half on several occasions (both mine are blue so I don't know if it's one, or both).

Unlike Finesse, the Suns can't be secured by finger pressure alone, so it's a matter of finding two socket sets of the right size.

The third time this happened, I used locktite, but it 's happened again since that.

The main problem I see here is that a newbie could buy the Sundia, and, if it comes apart, not be alert enough to notice the small black nut- without which they won't be able to put the diabolo back together.

This became apparent when it happened to me- I picked the sun up after not using it for a while and it came apart- the nut wasn't visible and it hasn't turned up since.

Unable to cope with the thought of using a lesser diabolo, I experimented and found the nuts on my Fly's fitted- they're also much better than the small black ones that came with the Sundais.

Checking with a friend who also bought 2 Sundias, he says that one of his has also been coming apart.

If this is a common problem, maybe, as potential solutions, the manufacturers, who seem quite open to feedback, could simply cease using the black nuts and switch to the, IMO, vastly better ones that the Fly's ship with, which seem to have some kind of plastic locking material internally?

I'd like to stress again that, other than this issue, the Sundias are absolutely the finest diabolo I've ever used- I'm not complaining here, just offering feedback.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Nahxela on December 03, 2007, 10:00:20 PM
Weren't the Crystal Suns supposed to be of a limited supply?
Did SundiaSports just make another batch, or have these been circling around?
I want some...
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Shaun on December 03, 2007, 10:33:53 PM
As far as I know they're limited, but because of the demand I wouldn't be surprised if they made more (hope they do). They look really nice. I have some waiting for me in brissy, cant wait to get them.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: wilyspin on December 07, 2007, 12:33:26 AM
Basically, at least one of my Suns has fallen in half on several occasions (both mine are blue so I don't know if it's one, or both).

Unable to cope with the thought of using a lesser diabolo, I experimented and found the nuts on my Fly's fitted- they're also much better than the small black ones that came with the Sundais.


Buy lock washers at the hardware store.  $0.20 will fix the issue for good; it worked for mine.  You might also have to invest in a metric set of sockets....I think they were 4 or 6 mm acorn nuts....Nev?
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: onewheeldave on December 07, 2007, 11:34:45 AM
Buy lock washers at the hardware store.  $0.20 will fix the issue for good; it worked for mine.  You might also have to invest in a metric set of sockets....I think they were 4 or 6 mm acorn nuts....Nev?

That's true- and pretty much what I did, except I got the lock washers off one of my Fly's.

However, this is basically an issue of me recommending diabolos to friends and kids who are on my workshops (I teach circus skills in schools).

Previously I'd generally recommend Finesse (as opposed to Henry's, as the finesse are lighter (for kids) and don't need an extra £8 to replace the poms), partly cos the cup material is so resilient and long-lasting.

But the Sundias are so much better (IMO) in terms of balance and the quality of their axle, that I'd like to recommend them (with the proviso that they could be overly heavy for some children).

However, to recommend a diabolo that will likley fall in half (and, from your post, it sounds like yours have come apart too) to individuals who don't necessarily have a socket set and, almost certainly don't have the two socket sets necessary to tighten up a diabolo- is obviously an issue.

Particularly when the nut is small, black and likley to get lost when the diabolo comes apart (as happened to me, even though I was aware of the ease with which the nut could be lost, I still haven't found the thing).

My friend, for example- it turns out he's damaged his diabolo by trying, the last time his came apart, to secure it using pliers- obviously, to those of us used to dealing with nuts/bolts, it's a no-no to use pliers, but, to those who don't know and who are mid-way through an intense practise session with 2, the temptation is clear.

If I recommed a particular piece of circus skiils equipment, especially to children (whose families may not be equipped to repair stuff) I do put a lot of thought and analysis into my choices- currently, although, IMO, the Sundia is a top diabolo, this coming-apart issue is a major sticking-point.

I think the Sundia is great for those who are equipped with the tools to sort it out and, that probably includes most of us hardcore diabolists who've used henrys, cos they've had to change the poms- but, when it comes to 'civilians'- they're often not as well equipped and I think they have an expectation that, if they pay £20+ for a diabolo, that it's not going to fall apart.

The main thing though, is that, as far as I can tell, it's very easily fixable at the manufacturers end and, if that's done, the Sundia becomes a diabolo that can be recommended, without reservation, not only to diabolists, but to newbies and the growing numbers of children who've experienced a workshop in circus skills and want to get their own kit.


Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Shaun on December 07, 2007, 12:28:02 PM
I know this thread is about Suns, but I agree that the wide axle fly is the best for children learning to play diabolo. There is much more room for error in balancing the diabolo, and the bearings make learning new simple tricks so much easier.
I haven't had any problems with Suns falling apart.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: nev on December 07, 2007, 01:00:05 PM
Ive not experienced this problem personally, its the first I've heard of it, but I've just reported it to Sundia.

In the meantime, I have a supply of nylock nuts if anyone needs them - just PM me (its not a metric thread so general hardware stores probably will not have them)

Any chance of getting these over here, Nev?
Working on it - the Crystals have been re-made and I should have some more stock very soon.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: nev on December 18, 2007, 03:03:37 PM
OK so the Crystal Suns are now back in stock ;D
(http://www.diabolomoves.co.uk/pics/sun crystal.jpg)
Also in stock now are some new colours for the Sun Series
(http://www.diabolomoves.co.uk/pics/sun purple.jpg)(http://www.diabolomoves.co.uk/pics/sun Red.jpg)(http://www.diabolomoves.com/pics/sun yellow.jpg)(http://www.diabolomoves.co.uk/pics/sun orange.jpg)
White Suns and LED kits are also due back in very soon.

And I've also reduced the shipping charges for the UK and EU (sorry but International shipping remains the same)

Merry Christmas
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Squiggle on December 18, 2007, 03:13:13 PM
I WANT! O.o
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Crackers on December 18, 2007, 04:35:56 PM
You'll here from me soon nev :P I want some of thoses ^^
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: TomMiller on December 21, 2007, 04:31:08 PM
YEEESSSSS!!!!!!!

woo ordered a crystal sun


to happy words cant explain


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Niclas on December 21, 2007, 04:59:37 PM
My dad had also ordered 2 crystal suns to me.
Christmast gift.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: nev on January 09, 2008, 09:44:07 PM
For all you nice people who bought Crystal Suns recently, the Sundia LED light kits are now back in stock.

They fit both the Fly and Sun diabolo's (check the website to see which colours work best).

When fitting to a Sun diabolo I'd recommend also getting a set of Fly washers to replace the metal ones on the Sun.  This keeps the total weight down to 302g with LED's fitted.

I've also got the replacement white hubs for the Sun which I'll get back up in stock in a short while.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: TomMiller on January 09, 2008, 09:57:56 PM
Wll the fly washers still fit in the suns?
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: martijn on January 09, 2008, 10:06:58 PM
Basically Fly = Sun, so yes.
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: relic on January 11, 2008, 01:58:28 AM
Damn I'm glad it's my birthday soon, these are defiantly going on my list.

Just to confirm, it isn't possible to get the fly bearing axle to fit into the sun is it?

If not are there any plans to make a bearing axle kit for the sun?

I like the sound of the fly axle but I don't trust myself with plastic cups, I still drop stuff far too often :(
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: William on January 11, 2008, 04:56:31 AM
Damn I'm glad it's my birthday soon, these are defiantly going on my list.

Just to confirm, it isn't possible to get the fly bearing axle to fit into the sun is it?

If not are there any plans to make a bearing axle kit for the sun?

I like the sound of the fly axle but I don't trust myself with plastic cups, I still drop stuff far too often :(
No you cannot. Nev has already tried. They really should make bearings on the sun.. Nev? Any plans?
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: tommi on January 11, 2008, 02:24:59 PM
Since I don't have any Suns or Flys, could someone (Nev) tell me why exactly cannot a Sun be modified into bearing mode? I mean which parts are different in Suns compared to Flys?
Title: Re: NEW DIABOLO - Sundia Sun Series
Post by: Beni on January 11, 2008, 04:19:43 PM
What William and tommi said.
If the sun is the 'solid' version of the fly, shouldn't you make a bearing axle for the sun?

Beni

Title: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: nev on January 12, 2008, 02:15:44 PM
Whilst the Sun shares the same axle as the "fixed" fly - all the other bits are different.

It was designed to have the same stability and feel of the Fly but that is where the similarity ends - the Sun is designed and put together in a completely different way.  The hubs and the cups are not made to accommodate the bearing bits. 

It is still possible to fit the bearings with A LOT of modification (I have done it) but a better option would be to have some Fly design cups made from the Sun material - I have asked Sundia about this possibility already.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Scooby on January 21, 2008, 03:11:00 AM
Wow. these new diabolos have swept everyone away!

Does anyone use good old henrys anymore?

i do...


does that make me old-new school ?     haha

are they really that much better?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Eric Moffett on January 21, 2008, 03:21:25 AM
Actually using these have not impressed me at all. I'm a finesse guy, I own two Suns, and they're very heavy; I put the Fly washers in them that helped a little. One thing I noticed in 2d is that I'm correcting A LOT and they're sluggish. I haven't used them much for 1d but if your used to light weight diabolos I would definitely suggest against these and probably for Taibolos, but I would like to get a couple of Taibolos first. ALTHOUGH they are still good diabolos nonetheless.

In a nut shell - if you like light diabolos these aren't for you, if you like heavy diabolos they are for you.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Scooby on January 21, 2008, 03:29:11 AM
ah ok, so they arent made of magic.

im sticking with my henrys.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Eric Moffett on January 21, 2008, 03:39:35 AM
ah ok, so they arent made of magic.

im sticking with my henrys.

Sorry if it wasn't clear I fixed it. I like LIGHT diabolos and these are HEAVY, but if you LIKE HEAVY diabolos the go a head and GET THESE they're still good diabolos but my style isn't adjusted for heavy diabolos...
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: hyperflame on January 29, 2008, 05:44:23 PM
Does the sun diabolos make noise?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: seán_ on January 29, 2008, 05:51:05 PM
Only on drops and 2d corrections (oh probably when grinding as well)

I's a standard diabolo, not a bearing one so it wont have the noise a fly makes.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: hyperflame on January 29, 2008, 07:59:10 PM
oh ok, Do you think the Suns are good? Are they very balanced?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: TomMiller on January 29, 2008, 08:05:22 PM
yes  VERY!!!!!! stable
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Dennis on February 09, 2008, 01:37:30 PM
i've got a question!
what's the difference between a sun and a fixed fly?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: fzzyrn on February 09, 2008, 01:47:53 PM
fundamentally, flys and suns are two very different diabs. They just share some parts.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Asa (Formerly Legault) on February 09, 2008, 03:06:58 PM
I believe suns and FIXED fly's are very similar.
Fixed Flys have less durable cups but apparently are better for doing multiple diabolos high.
Sun's are very similar to fixed fly's but have more durable cups, and are heavier, so better for shuffling multiple diabolo's low, but take more strength and energy.

But don't trust me, i have only tried bearing fly's and have not tried suns.
Thats just things compiled from what i've heard.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: wilyspin on February 14, 2008, 02:30:12 AM
I just received my aluminium axles from Nev.  After pounding out the one way bearings my suns now weigh in at 257 grams!!!  At this weight I would have to say they are my favorite diabolos on the market.  Anyone looking to drop the weight should look into these. 

Will
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Shaun on May 09, 2008, 07:19:51 AM
Bump!
If any Aussie folk want some Sundia Clear Suns or light kits, let me know ASAP and I'll get you some (by PM).
Or other Flys and Suns.
Sundia also now make a lighter weighted model of the Sun as well!
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: William on May 09, 2008, 10:05:52 AM
How much for 3 green suns? And possibly some white carbons
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: nev on May 09, 2008, 11:25:30 AM
I didn't think the new lighter Sun cups were finished yet?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Shaun on May 09, 2008, 11:39:35 AM
I didn't think the new lighter Sun cups were finished yet?
hmm, he didn't tell me that. Maybe they are finished? I'm curious to see what they done to it. Personally I like the current weight. I don't think I'll be buying any for this order...in a couple of days (unless someone in oz wants one).
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on May 12, 2008, 07:57:33 AM
So Sundia's starting to develop their diabolos more? Any development or modifications for the Flys coming up? Suns?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: nev on July 09, 2008, 03:03:18 PM
Hello

I've just reduced the crystal sun price to the same as the regular colour suns.

In addition you can now order all of the suns as standard with the choice of Metal washers 290g or plastic washers 275g (the nicer looking Sun plastic washer not the fly ones).

The new 260g suns will be a similar price when they arrive.

All available at diabolomoves (http://www.diabolomoves.co.uk/diabolos)
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: hibbo on July 16, 2008, 10:40:20 PM
Hello

Have been looking at getting some new diabolos and am definately going to get a couple of suns for some LED's.  Any idea when the lighter suns will be available, look forward to that.

Cheers
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on July 23, 2008, 04:38:47 AM
Sorry to bump, but I'm out to get a third Sun diabolo and I'm unsure of the colors...

I have 2 Green suns right now, which look nice, and I'm thinking about using my third sun to make 2 mixed-color suns, what are good looking colors to mix with green, in people's opinions?

I have a White fly, which looks awesome, do white suns look like white flys, color-wise? If so, I might get a white sun and forget about mixing cups, unless white+green looks good.

So yeah... help would be much appreciated  ;D
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Sean on July 23, 2008, 05:08:34 AM
As I understand it, white suns pick up marks from other coloured suns like white walls in a room full of kindergarten kids with crayons.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on July 23, 2008, 08:42:36 AM
Oh, noes!  :(

Does that include green? Can anyone confirm this?
My green Suns, to me, don't feel like the kind of material that would stain another...

Anyways, how do white Suns look in comparison to white Flys?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Duncan on July 23, 2008, 10:05:16 AM
The last, and only time, I tried mixing my sun's colours up was when I first got my black and white sun and they went completely off balance - the white and black cups weren't actually the same weight. For the few minutes I suffered while playing with them in that mode, they did nothing turn out of alignment. It would be a rotation or two, then correct - rotation or two, then correct - etc.

Maybe it's changed since then.

I honestly don't remember what my white sun looked like anymore, since its a sufferer of picking up marks from my black suns :P. It was shiny for a time, but, like most suns that get used a lot, they tend to lose that shine with constant practice.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: William on July 23, 2008, 10:59:04 AM
So what (different) colours would be least likely to mark each other?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: fzzyrn on July 23, 2008, 02:34:33 PM
white and yellow, one suspects.

oops. my proper grammar was showing
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on July 24, 2008, 08:06:34 AM
Anybody know which Suns weigh around the same?

And has anybody got any experience with green+white Suns?

Nev, you should do some testing, granted you still have loads of Suns lying around.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on July 26, 2008, 09:16:25 AM
Bump.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Karl Arne on August 03, 2008, 06:30:42 PM
I have 2 Sundia Sun, but I did't like the color :o
I have a Crystal Sun and a Yellow Sun. The green color look nice!
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Eric Moffett on August 03, 2008, 09:26:42 PM
Honestly, after hours and hours of practice with these they're very nice. Unfortunately I don't like the groove on the axle, "extra wide for multiple wraps," and also horrible for when the diabolo is tilted, because then the string can sit on top of the axle and the diabolo will tilt worse AND turn, very, very, very annoying.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on August 04, 2008, 09:28:19 AM
I have 2 Sundia Sun, but I did't like the color :o
I have a Crystal Sun and a Yellow Sun. The green color look nice!

You DON'T like the Crystals? or the yellow?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Karl Arne on August 04, 2008, 03:50:57 PM
Yes. I Don't like this color. I think the green look much better!
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: kurrygrodan on October 31, 2008, 04:32:35 PM
I got 2  black sundia sun diabolos and i love them :o ;) . is it possible make sundia suns to sundia sun bearing?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Sean on October 31, 2008, 04:53:16 PM
is it possible make sundia suns to sundia sun bearing?
No, not easily. At least, not without some serious modifications on your part. i.e. No. ;)
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Metaphor on November 04, 2008, 08:13:15 PM
About to buy some Suns propably. Do you guys know if pink/black Suns fit? Or black/white Flys.  :)

Appreciate it, Meta
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: kizzyontay52 on November 16, 2008, 05:26:50 PM
any body got these and not liked them? because i reaaaally want some.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Marijn on November 16, 2008, 05:39:58 PM
I got 2 Suns recently and they are stunning. I've always liked Circi for their weight and feeling of just being decent. Then I got some Taibolo's but they didn't really do it for me. I liked them for their ''smooth'' feeling, but they just didn't weigh enough for me.

Suns are the best of both worlds for me: 275gr with plastic washers is just the perfect wieght for me, they feel very decent yet extremely smooth while playing. Oh, and they look nice!

Suns are the best diabolo's available for me :)
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: martijn on November 16, 2008, 06:04:44 PM
I hear ya Marijn. Now I've used them for a while, they became my fav diabs as well :)
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Sean on November 16, 2008, 06:10:38 PM
The one thing that bugs me about my suns is throw starting them high and correcting them high. Anyone figured out any tricks for this? I must be missing something because Ryo likes/designed them and he's no slouch with 3 or 4 high.

1. I find them a bit hard to throw start them consistently with good spin, direction, angle, and tilt when right backhand throwing them to start 3d.
2. Because of the wide axles, I find them harder to adjust their orientation with the string in 2 or 3 high. Also, I find them a bit more liable to fall completely off axis. Basically, if things start going bad, they go really bad in couple of rotations. With regular circus or finesse axles, or even taibolos, I can angle my string or catch a bit to the front or back to correct things - especially if the diabolo isn't spinning fast.

Mostly this is all a result of their wider axles. Any thoughts for others that use them for 2 or 3 high backhand hand starts or people that can correct them easily with the string?

Otherwise, they are my favourites too.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: mike. on December 09, 2008, 10:29:37 PM
Then I got some Taibolo's but they didn't really do it for me. I liked them for their ''smooth'' feeling, but they just didn't weigh enough for me.

Suns are the best of both worlds for me: 275gr with plastic washers is just the perfect wieght for me, they feel very decent yet extremely smooth while playing. Oh, and they look nice!

Suns are the best diabolo's available for me :)


yeah, i was thinking about this but then i realized that i had been using 4 inch diabolos for a long time so that makes the taibolos seem like a rock....if i need more weight i was planning on decorating the cups insides.

with the suns though, it just seems after close analysis that the axel looks TOO wide but that could be from personal preferance


edit:spelling
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Marijn on June 30, 2009, 09:33:23 AM
I have a little problem with the hubs of one of my Suns. Both the hubs have the problem you can see in the pictures below. Is this a common problem? Could it have been avoided? 'Cause I don't really know how this happened :(

Time for a new set of hubs I guess.

(I tried to get the pictures as sharp (is that correct, or a ''double-dutch'' :P?) as possible).
(http://i41.tinypic.com/124ja7n.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/mvp74y.jpg)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/9rt6w1.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/34hfjpi.jpg)
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Crackers on June 30, 2009, 10:22:00 AM
Left them under the sun too long ?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Sean on June 30, 2009, 01:59:31 PM
"sharp" is correct. I've had the same thing happen to 2 of mine. I believe it happened when I had them on the axles but without the cups and I dropped them (travelling). Thank goodness they only cost a couple pounds (compared to Henrys hubs for example). I think it's the nature of their shape. They are very narrow along the edges.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: nev on June 30, 2009, 04:12:53 PM
Were they still on the diabolos at the time?  As Sean said, I've only seen that happen when the cups are removed.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Marijn on June 30, 2009, 08:59:46 PM
The cups haven't been off the diabolo since I bought 'em. The hubs are cheap indeed :)
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: nev on June 30, 2009, 09:23:44 PM
That is indeed strange then - I've never seen them damaged like that on a complete diabolo.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Sean on June 30, 2009, 09:32:59 PM
I assume they would have had to catch on something? Maybe a tiny lip just happened to land on something hard with an edge?

Or maybe you shouldn't have tried to fix that scuff mark with a sledge hammer?
(http://diabolo.ca/images/forum/sledge-hammer.jpg)
Hardi-har-har
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: monkiatzu on July 01, 2009, 11:41:42 AM
lol sean, sledge hammers solve everything dont they :P
that happened to me when i tried using fishing wire for diabolo string, which is awesome, but it catches between the cup and washer and kills the washer
wat to do; you should unscrew the cups, take out the washers and bend them back.
worked for me, should for  u
if not get a sledge hammer
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: maunch on July 28, 2009, 06:02:00 AM
I just got some of the light Suns, and they are awesome!  Well, considering it was an upgrade from a single Chinese yo-yo...  But they're still cool!
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: killer764 on December 23, 2009, 06:43:02 PM
Can i fit this: http://www.diabolomoves.co.uk/diabolos/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=46 (http://www.diabolomoves.co.uk/diabolos/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=46)
Into a sundia sun or a sundia shinning?

I want to buy a new diabolo, but i don't know if the sundia sun is softer than the shinning.
I hate the sundia fly's kind of cup and i want to buy the diab which is the more similar than the circus.

Can I buy a sundia shinning (marble) with a fixed axle?

P.S: i want exclusively a fixed axle diabolo.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Hathaway on December 23, 2009, 07:50:46 PM
You want a fixed axle diabolo that is lke a circus... Hmmm, perhaps just buy a circus?
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: killer764 on December 23, 2009, 08:17:50 PM
I've already 3 circus with allround axle! ^^
But you didn't respond to all my question.
I will buy a rainbow kit, so i've to have a sundia. (i don't want a vegas kit)
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Sean on December 23, 2009, 08:29:17 PM
Can i fit this: http://www.diabolomoves.co.uk/diabolos/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=46 (http://www.diabolomoves.co.uk/diabolos/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=46)
Into a sundia sun or a sundia shinning?
Yes, but I believe you have to knock out the bearings first. You do realize that the black axles are quite a bit more slippery right? I have a Sun set up like that. I like it for 1 diabolo stuff with old string but it's probably too slippery for anything else for me. Your opinion may vary.

I want to buy a new diabolo, but i don't know if the sundia sun is softer than the shinning.
Yes, I'd say the original heavier weight Sun cups are a bit softer.

I hate the sundia fly's kind of cup and i want to buy the diab which is the more similar than the circus.
The Sun cups still aren't as rubbery or soft as the circuses. In many ways, that's a good thing. I think it strikes a nice balance.

Can I buy a sundia shinning (marble) with a fixed axle?
Doesn't look like Nev has those set up by default, who knows, perhaps if you ask nicely Nev could set you up... but I'm not sure, you'd have to ask. It's certainly technically possible.
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Hathaway on December 23, 2009, 08:34:27 PM
He was selling them set up like that at the BJC (I think...)

As you are looking for glow stuff have you had a good look at the taibolos, the light kits on those are very nice as well...
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: killer764 on December 24, 2009, 09:27:18 AM
Ok, thank you Sean!
I think i will buy a sundia sun (crystal) heavy version with carbon fiber washers, wide aluminium axle and a rainbow kit. For christmas my grandparents want to give the best diabolo to me, so i've a lot of money ;)

Hathaway, i've looked taibolo led but i don't know if i can use it as a normal diabolo when i don't use the led.
Maybe a sun with a led kit is more "usable" than a taibolo led in 1 diabolo tricks?

Another question, does the baterie of rainbow kit is durable?

Thank you!

(if you can respond to my questions on the revolution kit, that's would be perfect :P)
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: Hathaway on December 24, 2009, 09:49:17 AM
Yeah the batteries do last for a while, can't say how long as it obviously depends how long you use them for. Just be careful though in my experiance the switch is very easy to flick on by accident when in your bag, this in my opinion is the worst designed thing about the sundia light kits. Having said that it doesn't happen all the time so I wouldnt worry to much its just something to look out for!

I'd say the sundia and taibolo are as nice as one another for 1d tricks, just depends on which one you prefer!
Title: Re: Sundia Sun Series Diabolos
Post by: killer764 on December 24, 2009, 06:26:31 PM
Ok thank you, i've just bought all item what i was telling.
You will see me with in coming month in a new video ;)
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