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Diabolo.ca Forums => Gear => Topic started by: Nick on March 07, 2008, 10:15:57 AM

Title: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Nick on March 07, 2008, 10:15:57 AM
Duncan Yo-Yos (http://www.yo-yo.com) have just released their product catalogue for 2008.
http://www.yo-yo.com/catalog_pdfs/duncan_catalog.pdf (http://www.yo-yo.com/catalog_pdfs/duncan_catalog.pdf)
Of particular note to people on this forum is their plan to release a new diabolo:
(http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8877/diablopn3.jpg)
They only have early CAD designs available as it is still in the prototyping stage at the moment. From Jack Ringca, Team Leader of the Duncan Crew:
Quote
We are really excited about the proto and hope to produce an even better product than that. There are portions of its design that are not shown due to forthcoming patents.
Still waiting to hear about the specs.

Nick.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: William on March 07, 2008, 10:17:48 AM
Interchangable?! Thats awesome. The most convenient diabolo ever. I'm going to have to get one. Even if they play terrible.
Thanks very much for the link Nick!
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Squiggle on March 07, 2008, 11:20:58 AM
I want one (Well 3+) !

I expect these to be decent, Hopefully not too overpriced though.

(And I've thought about a new project in 3D-Design at school ;)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Jimthegrim on March 07, 2008, 04:32:56 PM
Quite an innovative idea. I wonder how they will actually play though and what the ratchet axle will be like. If they put some effort into the bearing then they might be quite good, but you never can tell how a diab plays until you play them. I wonder if they are going to be hard of soft cups?

jim
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: -Leo- on March 07, 2008, 04:50:43 PM
There were rumours about Yoyojam doing something like this a while ago but that never materialised. You gotta wonder if they take the same approach with diabolos as yoyos (competitions, teams etc)

Whatever it plays like it should be interesting,

-Leo
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: mofro on March 07, 2008, 05:07:31 PM
i want this to work i really do, but..... i have a funny feeling that that they will be alsolout trollop!

mofro
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: LaNgErZ on March 07, 2008, 06:39:40 PM
i have faith in duncan. they have made some amazing products,

it all depends on what size it is........

come on 4inch

lz
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: fzzyrn on March 07, 2008, 10:24:06 PM
I think that the bearings will be absolutely brilliant, but the cups won't be as good. somebody should email them suggestion about the cups. Also, i believe they should come out with a 5-inch variation and a 4-inch variation. The cups should be interchangeable (totally brilliant).
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Diabolo Bro on March 08, 2008, 12:53:29 PM
wow, I like the idea, definitely going to have to get some, the knob would make ufo's hard though.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Ginger_Tom on March 21, 2008, 03:17:17 PM
I've got to have two.

GT
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Beni on March 21, 2008, 04:24:27 PM
My guess is the first edition of these diabolos will be awful bearings and awful fixed all in one. I'll bet there'll be an issue with balance.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Funty on March 21, 2008, 06:32:55 PM
i'd save your opinion till you get to try or someone else did. everyone said the wheel would be rubbish and how wrong were they.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Chiok on March 22, 2008, 11:39:09 AM
I voted yes for the wheel, I saw potential in it personally.

It says two new features; I only count one.

Chiok
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: -Leo- on March 22, 2008, 12:14:31 PM
'The Wheel' for the most part is still useless. You can't really go anywhere on one wheel...the second wheel was by far the superior invention.


Back on topic and even if you think it's going to be a flop you'll probably be still interested to see how it turns out. I myself think it'll be decent. Duncan have a good reputation with their yoyo's so...

-Leo
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Beni on March 22, 2008, 10:31:25 PM
Unicycle?

Yeah I guess it works with yoyos but then again the diabolo spins a lot more violently and the knob is only "hand tightened"...

Beni
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: LaNgErZ on March 23, 2008, 12:21:20 AM
^ what!? if anything yo-yos spin faster, trust, they will get round any problems

lz
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Beni on March 23, 2008, 09:38:31 AM
I disagree, a yo-yo is a lot smaller and so the spin may be faster but there is less force. A diabolo, however, is jerked around (especially in vertax) and a lot more power goes into making it spin. Occasionally one of my finnesses will loosen, and that's tightened with a tool.

Beni
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Dan on March 23, 2008, 07:57:48 PM
My guess is they'll develop a system so that the axle is tightened by machine/tools until the final 2 notches which will be the difference between bearing and fixed.  Cannot say it will play well in either aspect yet but its an interesting idea indeed.


Dan
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: -Leo- on March 23, 2008, 08:20:03 PM
Watch a video by Hiroyuki Suzuki (mickey) and you'll know that yoyo's get jerked around a fair bit aswell :P
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: LaNgErZ on March 23, 2008, 08:47:02 PM
^ cant say i'm a mickey fan to be honest. going completely off topic have a look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA8ydW1SPDM
ridiculous

lz
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Beni on March 23, 2008, 08:52:42 PM
...nice tutorial ::).

Just out of interest, does anyone know exactly HOW the axle is changed? I'm guessing it's something to do with fixing it to the hubs...

Beni
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: William on March 23, 2008, 10:15:04 PM
I am guessing it woul;d be something with the hubs, if I tighten my short axle fly enough it'll play fixed. And I don't have to over tighten it either.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: stupendous on March 26, 2008, 09:06:23 PM
...nice tutorial ::).

Just out of interest, does anyone know exactly HOW the axle is changed? I'm guessing it's something to do with fixing it to the hubs...

Beni
I have heard that there will be no tools required to change from fixed to bearing and back again.  The hubs screw together, though I don't know if it is tension that keeps the bearing from spinning.

-stu
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: jordak on August 27, 2008, 09:19:53 AM
It said there coming Summer 2008...what's the latest word on it?

I myself am excited about the axle concept, but I expect that it will be initially flawed in Duncan's choice of materials or hub construction.

I guess my feelings could be summed up in excited skepticism
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Sean on August 27, 2008, 01:26:53 PM
It said there coming Summer 2008...what's the latest word on it?
I myself am excited about the axle concept, but I expect that it will be initially flawed in Duncan's choice of materials or hub construction.
I think Duncan got too caught up with his dissertation and the forum to finish up the diabolo. Duncan doesn't know much about materials or hub construction either. Oh wait...
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Ethan on August 27, 2008, 01:33:42 PM
bravo Duncan for the idea! going to have to get me a pair of those when i get my next paycheck, looking forward to the results
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: thetemple94 on August 27, 2008, 01:37:48 PM
Whoa, 4 month necro.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: jordak on August 27, 2008, 02:56:12 PM
Whoa, 4 month necro.

...Well, I thought that since summer '08 is coming to a close, an update might be helpful to people waiting on this product. Sorry if it's not proper forum etiquette, but we should be expecting news from Duncan soon right?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Duncan on August 27, 2008, 03:28:49 PM
...Well, I thought that since summer '08 is coming to a close, an update might be helpful to people waiting on this product. Sorry if it's not proper forum etiquette, but we should be expecting news from Duncan soon right?

News from me? Okay: Until there's proper news, have some fun with this: http://www.yo-yo.com/games.asp

And I found this weird entry on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patience) that might apply to those who are getting antsy about news from Duncan Yo Yos.

If you're getting peeved at how long its taking to get some news from them, try finding some news about when the Finesse bearings are coming out :).

-[The Real] Duncan
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on August 30, 2008, 08:04:51 PM
ask and ye shall receive.

They are still coming, just a bit behind. If you know anything about Duncan, you'll know that's pretty typical.. I don't think they've ever hit an intended release date perfectly. However, they also have a good habit of not releasing things until they are right.. so have faith.

They also aren't doing this blindly, they're not guessing at what diabolo players want, or trying to design something they know nothing about.. they got help.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Shawn Fumo on October 06, 2008, 11:47:43 PM
Sorry for the necro, but here is a prototype in the flesh!

http://flickr.com/photos/docpopular/2915583645/ (http://flickr.com/photos/docpopular/2915583645/)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on October 07, 2008, 12:25:20 AM
To elaborate on that image, and to field some questions before they arise..

It requires -no- tools to open, and no tools or extra parts to change from fixed to bearing. The weight is around 270g, putting it between the finessee (around 250 I believe) and the circus (around 300 stock).

The shells are rubbery so they don't pick up rough edges as bad when they get scratched up (on of my problems with my sundias and other hard shelled diabolos). Stock colors will be red or white, cheap shell packs will be available to switch in a variety of colors.. I have to assume many juggling shops will put together their own color combination because of this.

It will be in stores I expect sometime next month, and will be cheaper than pretty much all the current higher end offerings from other companies (I don't believe there is an MSRP officially yet, but expect something like 25-30 USD)

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Marko on October 07, 2008, 08:12:18 AM
Looks promising. Eager to hear some reviews from you guys. Everything
comes to here with huge delay...
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: allsoppy5 on October 07, 2008, 08:56:05 AM
Sounds great =D Might have to get myself one to try it out.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Eric Moffett on October 07, 2008, 01:16:07 PM
Looks promising. Eager to hear some reviews from you guys. Everything
comes to here with huge delay...

As Kyo told me, Duncan has a larger distribution network than any juggling company. So maybe this time it's just a regular delay, and maybe since they're so inexpensive you could have someone in America (like me) ship you some.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: monkiatzu on October 08, 2008, 12:55:01 PM
hmm i dont trust the easy hand change from bearing to fixed...
then again i havn't investigated it yet
what an interesting idea  :-\
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on October 08, 2008, 03:43:02 PM
what's not to trust?

It's essentially a spacer that when placed one direction, doesn't touch the bearing sleeve.. and the other direction, is allowed to grip down on it holding it in place.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Eric Moffett on October 08, 2008, 11:44:54 PM
what's not to trust?

It's essentially a spacer that when placed one direction, doesn't touch the bearing sleeve.. and the other direction, is allowed to grip down on it holding it in place.

Kyle

Kind of like a clutch-bearing spacer =D
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: ecuador16 on October 11, 2008, 12:30:30 AM
i made a search in google to see if i could find anything new on this diabolo and found this nothing specific but really random they dont even have a price??? but you can order it ?
who wants to get their bank account robbed to find out ????
lol but anyways here you are
http://www.gallantgifts.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=gg&Product_Code=512739733 (http://www.gallantgifts.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=gg&Product_Code=512739733)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Diabolo88 on October 11, 2008, 01:22:50 AM
Wow, that prototype actually looks really nice (wonder if it plays nice though) and the whole idea is awesome. I´m still afraid to use Fly´s outside because of the cups material so if these are more durable it should be a really nice diabolo for casual play on rough surfaces like concrete. Best would be something close to Circuscups imho.

Will be exciting to hear what other people think of this and if it´s worth the money.

Quote
cheap shell packs will be available to switch in a variety of colors.. I have to assume many juggling shops will put together their own color combination because of this.

This sounds good, why doesn´t more companies do that?

Quote
It will be in stores I expect sometime next month, and will be cheaper than pretty much all the current higher end offerings from other companies (I don't believe there is an MSRP officially yet, but expect something like 25-30 USD)

25-30 usd for a bearing + non-bearing diab. That does not sound so good though. Well, the price in itself sound good but still...for that price can the quality still be kept high?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Eric Moffett on October 11, 2008, 02:05:28 AM
where do you think the high price on other diabolos comes from? it's because of taxes and shipping from other countries, on top of that they also say you can't sell cheaper than x amount sometimes so other diabolos are more expensive

where as duncan has a very good shipping network and a lot of stores that carry their products (way more than any juggling company) they're also an american company so there really isn't much for taxes I would assume thus lowering the price but I assure you Duncan is a fine company the last thing they would do is release a piece of junk esp since their yo-yos are such quality
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: monkiatzu on October 11, 2008, 03:12:26 AM
the taxes idea makes sense, so it would be cheaper for someone in USA than for someone in Australia..
that sounds right, but as previously said duncan already shipps very well, could this be the dream diabolo we've all been waiting for?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on October 11, 2008, 07:14:34 AM
The pricing can be explained quite simply.. Duncan is simply a whole lot bigger than everybody else, and therefor gets the benefits of greater buying power.

We're talking about a company that started in 1929, which is a small part of a much larger plastics company called Flambeau (maker of such things as plastic cases and boxes of all sorts, parking meters (Don Duncan invented those), decoy ducks, etc.. which is in turn a small part of an again much larger Nordic Group. Anyway, we're talking about a company who produces a huge range of products, so with that come some benefits of lowered production cost.

As to the play, well.. I'm probably biased.. in the interest of full disclosure, I designed this thing from the ground up and it's my name you'll find on the patents. I do not officially work for Duncan, they simply brought me in as outside help when they began dealing with a product they didn't have experience with.

It has been tested with the help of some great diabolo players, all of whom seem quite happy with it. I personally use that prototype every day.. and I can't wait to get them on the shelf.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: fzzyrn on October 12, 2008, 01:14:19 AM
hubstack attachments. now.
that'd be awesome........

this could be a start of a shift to a more yoyo like diab technique, or at least a more popular following.

Langerz, your true calling has come
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on October 12, 2008, 01:23:56 AM
Having been around and involved in the development of the current yo-yo trends for the last 10 years... I'm not sure that's a good cross over to make :)

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: fzzyrn on October 12, 2008, 01:47:34 AM
why? I know they aren't used that much in yoyos, but what with the ease of vertax with diabs, it couldn't be that be that impractical.

z-stacks and those other jutty out-y ones too.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: mike. on October 12, 2008, 05:04:33 AM
i kinda feel privileged to live in the USA now, maybe I'll actually get something B4 all you guys
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Diabolo88 on October 12, 2008, 10:30:33 AM
Quote
The pricing can be explained quite simply.. Duncan is simply a whole lot bigger than everybody else, and therefor gets the benefits of greater buying power.

Quote
where do you think the high price on other diabolos comes from? it's because of taxes and shipping from other countries, on top of that they also say you can't sell cheaper than x amount sometimes so other diabolos are more expensive

OK this makes sense then. It still sounds very cheap though. Duncan is that company that makes spinning tops and such correct?

Quote
hubstack attachments. now.
that'd be awesome........

There are actual plans on this or not (haven´t read the entire thread yet)? If there are I´m getting one wether it´s crap or not :D.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: fzzyrn on October 12, 2008, 12:41:21 PM
yeah i know about the stacks and the ones langerz and tommi(?) made.
i'm more interested in the really pointy ones that you see in some yoyo videos.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: thetemple94 on October 12, 2008, 12:45:41 PM
i'm more interested in the really pointy ones that you see in some yoyo videos.

Top tips? I'm all for something like that. Think of the possibilities!
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on October 13, 2008, 04:38:05 AM
I'm happy to listen to all suggestions.. some things of various sorts are being worked on and developed, but nothing is certain yet.. aside from the diabolo itself :)

Kyle

..and yes, that was intentionally as vague as possible.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Diabolo88 on October 13, 2008, 11:45:56 AM
Quote
    i'm more interested in the really pointy ones that you see in some yoyo videos.


Top tips? I'm all for something like that. Think of the possibilities!

Kyo, you are developing these? If so you can add me to the requests already made about those pointy hubstacks (Z-stacks or whatever they´re called in yoyo?). That would make it like a one-sided and normal diabolo combined. How cool would that be to do 3D floor excalibur and Sharpes style ice passing without the ice 8).
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Hathaway on October 13, 2008, 01:21:25 PM
How cool would that be to do 3D floor excalibur and Sharpes style ice passing without the ice 8).
Probably about as cool as doing it on ice... If not warmer being that ice is frozen ;).

I'm quite looking forward to this diab though! Any plans for lights or anything?

P.S A fire version?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kizzyontay52 on October 13, 2008, 02:32:00 PM
2nd post!

 Im really looking forward to the release of this! As a duncan yoyo collectior (collection of 20+) i have no doubts that this will be an amazing product!

 about the pointy hubstacks (top tips) has it actually been said that this will have them, and how will they fit on as well as the hand tightening thingy for fixed axle to bearing conversions? The CAD picture shows great big duncan emblems on the side, which i assume will be used for the tightening, but how will those AND the hubstacks fit on?

     ~KZ
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on October 13, 2008, 07:54:35 PM
I'd like to note again that nothing is certain about future attachments at all.. some ideas have been tossed around, but I make absolutely no promises. There are some things I'd like to see, but we'll have to wait and see where it all goes..

I'd say a light kit is most likely at least in the near future.

For now, you'll just have to enjoy the diabolo :)

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: GbH on October 13, 2008, 11:08:13 PM
Kyle,

I'm intrigued - how long does it take to switch from fixed axle to bearing?  Is it something that could be done mid-way through a show?  If I'm working 'light', it sucks having to have either both types with me, or to just use bearings.

Guy
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on October 14, 2008, 04:51:32 AM
It's relatively fast, but it isn't instant, so you'd need some sort of pause or stop in the show.

You need to disassemble it, but it requires no tools.. just spin off one of the knobs, pull the shell/hub off, flip a spacer over, reassemble.

It takes me about 15-20 seconds I guess.. never really tried to see how fast I could do it.

The knobs bottom out, so there is no risk of over-tightening in a rush.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: GbH on October 14, 2008, 11:04:24 PM
Thanks for that, Kyle.  Although not an immediate change, it still might be fast enough for some situations, given a little imagination and story telling.  I'm already well experienced in taking apart a tangled yo-yo whilst demonstrating how "it's not actually powered by batteries or an army of small ants..." as a cover up to what I'm really doing!   ;D
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on October 15, 2008, 03:31:48 AM
Yea, it could be fit into a show.. I've seen many shows where someone disappears behind a prop briefly, but that's usually with a multi-person act..

If you figure out a good way to do it, let us know :)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: jazz-man3 on October 15, 2008, 08:52:41 PM
still no pic of the axle. :-[
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Olive on October 16, 2008, 03:27:10 PM
Quote
still no pic of the axle. :-[

Say please  ;)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Mark BMC on October 16, 2008, 04:09:29 PM
don't tease me women! I demand a pic via pm, everybody else loves the suspense.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: jazz-man3 on October 16, 2008, 09:08:08 PM
im willing to buy this now give me the 360 degress pic please  :D :)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: jazz-man3 on October 16, 2008, 09:10:22 PM
will it be as resonsive as the duncan yoyo lol  :P
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kizzyontay52 on October 16, 2008, 09:16:28 PM
will it be as resonsive as the duncan yoyo lol  :P

MOD IT.

every one of the 20 or so FHZ's i own (made by duncan) are modded apart from a few collectables i keep stock! NONE are tug responsive.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on October 17, 2008, 05:11:22 AM
take take take.. now you guys want actual pictures of the product? bah! You're just supposed to blindly buy it based on an image taken on an iphone and a breif description :)

I'll see what I can do about getting more images out there, but that's not my part of it :)

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: ETAMark on October 17, 2008, 02:44:23 PM
Quick question: How loud are the prototype bearings? I've heard some old Spinabolos that sounded like an actual rachet. Just curious.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Eric Moffett on October 17, 2008, 06:52:37 PM
Well production Sundia Fly bearings when properly lubricated and tightened it sounds pleasant just a light hum of sorts so I would assume kyle would use a clutch bearing of similar or greater quality
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: thetemple94 on October 17, 2008, 07:26:36 PM
MOD IT.
every one of the 20 or so FHZ's i own (made by duncan) are modded apart from a few collectables i keep stock! NONE are tug responsive.
Cleaned bearing, one duncan sticker worn out, one not does the job. It's tug responsive but I can do pretty much every thing I know on it. Maybe because I'm insanely smooth but whatever.
will it be as resonsive as the duncan yoyo lol  :P
Diabolos aren't responsive you silly, do you see people putting friction stickers on their finesses? Do you assume that Duncan, being a manufacturer of yo-yos, will do that to diabolos so they roll up the string? *Nods head in agreement* Really good idea!

Temps

P.S. Sorry for being so critical but it really annoys me when people make cross comparisons between diabolo and yo-yo, and vice-versa, especially since the two are so radically different in terms of fundamental concepts. Temple Out
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Eric Moffett on October 18, 2008, 01:42:56 AM
Cleaned bearing, one duncan sticker worn out, one not does the job. It's tug responsive but I can do pretty much every thing I know on it. Maybe because I'm insanely smooth but whatever. Diabolos aren't responsive you silly, do you see people putting friction stickers on their finesses? Do you assume that Duncan, being a manufacturer of yo-yos, will do that to diabolos so they roll up the string? *Nods head in agreement* Really good idea!

Temps

P.S. Sorry for being so critical but it really annoys me when people make cross comparisons between diabolo and yo-yo, and vice-versa, especially since the two are so radically different in terms of fundamental concepts. Temple Out

P.P.S. it's a joke ;)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: ETAMark on October 19, 2008, 01:51:48 AM
if it's quiet, I'll buy it. the Spinabolo in question was my second diabolo and it turned me off of bearings; with the option, who can refuse?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on October 19, 2008, 05:58:52 AM
No bearing is completely silent.. no one-way bearing anyway.. but the ones thus far have been MUCH better than the spinabolo ridiculousness.. more in line with the sundias.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Diabolo88 on October 30, 2008, 07:33:29 PM
Found a cool video of on of those cool "thingys" that stick out I would want to see on a diabolo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGfdqFnIHmc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGfdqFnIHmc&feature=related)

If you could fit one of those on stock or as an accessory it would probably be very fun to play around with.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Kingsid3 on October 30, 2008, 08:01:07 PM
Nice! Looks like a YYF G5 to me, they would be cool on a diab. LZ was making some i thought?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: zwiggelbig on October 30, 2008, 09:25:40 PM
Lol still somehow I think its cheating those diabolo's but thats just me :P Don't blame me on that opionion I know alot of you won't agree it but I just hate such diabolo's because it makes things to easy.

But feeel free to love them though =)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Eric Moffett on October 30, 2008, 09:53:54 PM
Lol still somehow I think its cheating those diabolo's but thats just me :P Don't blame me on that opionion I know alot of you won't agree it but I just hate such diabolo's because it makes things to easy.

But feeel free to love them though =)

That's like saying using stem cells is cheating on curing stuff (no offense intended to anyone). Might as well try and experiment before we rule it out as junk.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: zwiggelbig on October 30, 2008, 10:35:26 PM
I do have one =) else it would not be fair to say that.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kizzyontay52 on October 31, 2008, 11:46:30 AM
Nice! Looks like a YYF G5 to me, they would be cool on a diab. LZ was making some i thought?

oh, come on simon! g5+!!!!

 I actually began work on a stack kit for the g3 before i realised that langerz had allready made some. As long as its ok with him, once my lathe gets here ill be pumping them out, with top tips (that video) and something like inverted top tips.. imagin that. get into a decent vartax, and just balance the diabolo on the end of your stick sideways, so it will stay there for minutes, still spinning!!! get me?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Eric Moffett on October 31, 2008, 01:03:36 PM
oh, come on simon! g5+!!!!

 I actually began work on a stack kit for the g3 before i realised that langerz had allready made some. As long as its ok with him, once my lathe gets here ill be pumping them out, with top tips (that video) and something like inverted top tips.. imagin that. get into a decent vartax, and just balance the diabolo on the end of your stick sideways, so it will stay there for minutes, still spinning!!! get me?

Yeah he said he was working on something like that too the concave insert so that ufo's were much nicer
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Kingsid3 on October 31, 2008, 02:09:55 PM
Those sound awsome Kiz. But come on, i did think the anno look different but i couldn't see the inside of cup of the yoyo(right word?) but fair play. Whats the difference anyway? IF your commin to src bring a g3 and your proto-type if you have one.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kizzyontay52 on October 31, 2008, 04:47:50 PM
Those sound awsome Kiz. But come on, i did think the anno look different but i couldn't see the inside of cup of the yoyo(right word?) but fair play. Whats the difference anyway? IF your commin to src bring a g3 and your proto-type if you have one.

will do. And the profile is much wider, rims less angular.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on November 20, 2008, 03:40:15 AM
http://shop.plaza.rakuten.co.jp/yo-yo/diary/listDaily/20081107/ (http://shop.plaza.rakuten.co.jp/yo-yo/diary/listDaily/20081107/)

The first shots I've seen go up of the new diabolo.

Should start to see them in the next few weeks.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Sean on November 20, 2008, 03:54:31 AM
Interesting to see the shape of the cups. Much more triangular and less spherical.

So who's on the packaging?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Diabolo88 on November 20, 2008, 04:02:44 AM
Quote
I actually began work on a stack kit for the g3 before i realised that langerz had allready made some. As long as its ok with him, once my lathe gets here ill be pumping them out, with top tips (that video) and something like inverted top tips.. imagin that. get into a decent vartax, and just balance the diabolo on the end of your stick sideways, so it will stay there for minutes, still spinning!!! get me?

That sounds so awesome, I´d be happy to test prototypes like that for you anyday ;).

Quote
http://shop.plaza.rakuten.co.jp/yo-yo/diary/listDaily/20081107/

The first shots I've seen go up of the new diabolo.

Should start to see them in the next few weeks.

Kyle

They look weird for some reason, no different colors so you can tell which way the diabolo should face in bearingmode (would you need to buy a separate cup just for that?) and such an emphazised rim. Whatever, the important thing is how they feel ofcourse. The logo looks cool.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on November 20, 2008, 04:37:23 AM
Takeshi Kamisato is the guy on the packaging, a member of the 'Duncan Crew USA'.. all around amazing guy, and a good diabolo player too.

There is an arrow molded into one of the hubs to tell you which direction the diabolo goes in bearing mode.. though admittedly it isn't a great indicator.. I suggest coloring it in with a red sharpie or something so it's easier to see.. or just picking up the diabolo and figuring it out in about 2 seconds.

The stock colors will be either white, or red. Light kits coming I believe early next year.

And yes, they are different. That's kinda the point isn't it? I'm personally kinda tired of buying the same diabolo over and over.. I guess it'd be ok if they were perfect, but they aren't.. so this is something new, and something I'm sure many people will love.

Kyle

Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Diabolo88 on November 20, 2008, 05:17:48 AM
Quote
And yes, they are different. That's kinda the point isn't it? I'm personally kinda tired of buying the same diabolo over and over.. I guess it'd be ok if they were perfect, but they aren't.. so this is something new, and something I'm sure many people will love.

Actually the fact that they look (in my own words here) "weird" is what makes them interesting. It has been discussed on the forum before about thick rims for better stability etc. Yoyoers know this so this is maybe a better stability diabolo than many others. The shape looks like it would take some getting used to but without even having tried them who knows.

Still want to see a tip-set badly ;).
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: fzzyrn on November 20, 2008, 05:50:44 AM
I'd test for you! I live in the US too (one of few diabolo-ists)
The triangular profile'd cups may have some difficulty entering vertax (the string has to rub against something right?). A heavily rim weighted design is the right idea (think finesse g3, but more radical), though.

This is a 5in diameter, right?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on November 20, 2008, 05:50:10 PM
I've had absolutely no problem getting into or out of vertax with these.. the only 'getting use to' I experienced was corrections in 2d.. but I adjusted to it in about 10 minutes or so.

And yea, it's a ~5" diabolo.. it's the same diameter as the finesse I believe

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kizzyontay52 on November 20, 2008, 09:54:16 PM
I've had absolutely no problem getting into or out of vertax with these.. the only 'getting use to' I experienced was corrections in 2d.. but I adjusted to it in about 10 minutes or so.

And yea, it's a ~5" diabolo.. it's the same diameter as the finesse I believe

Kyle

sounds...


PERFECT.

whats the axel width? BIIIIIGG??
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: fzzyrn on November 21, 2008, 12:03:34 AM
cool! 5 in, vertax easy. I would think the 2d corrections will take some time. When can i get one?

have you tried satin-ing it? Arm grinds were a part of the collab this year.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on November 21, 2008, 12:31:15 AM
The axle is rather wide, yes..

These should be available in the next couple weeks I believe, check your favorite juggling store to make sure they are getting them (I'll post here when I know a release date for sure)

And no, I haven't tried doing any sort of satin.. though I've beat the living **** out of a few of them, which is sorta the same I guess ;)

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: stupendous on November 25, 2008, 03:15:08 AM
The proto I threw in October was great!  I can't wait to get my hands on these!!

-stu
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: William on November 25, 2008, 10:53:16 AM
PLEASE tell me they'll be out before Christmas?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Sean on November 25, 2008, 11:03:45 AM
I was talking with Don Higgins (of Higgins Brothers). The distributor told him it would be Dec. 10 at the earliest. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on November 25, 2008, 06:42:34 PM
I just got a note from a retailer saying they were told they were shipping.. I imagine early dec. is the best bet with thanksgiving and such going on here in the US.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: fzzyrn on November 25, 2008, 08:11:43 PM
which retailer? i gotta get a couple.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: flep on November 25, 2008, 08:33:22 PM
will they be available in Europe too?
I'm just wondering because I've never heard of Duncan (I don't know anything about yoyo ;))
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Sean on November 25, 2008, 10:10:30 PM
I'm going to guess... YES, just maybe not at exactly the same time depending how their distribution network is set up. They invented the parking meter! I think they can get a diabolo to Europe.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on November 26, 2008, 05:07:35 AM
They will be available worldwide to any retailer who wants to carry them. Duncan has a huge distribution network as they are one of the largest yoyo/toy companies out there (in business since 1929).. and I know they have been getting lots of new stores interested with the release of the diabolo.

So if you have a favorite store, make sure they've placed their order.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: William on November 26, 2008, 06:50:54 AM
I think they can get a diabolo to Europe.
but what about aus? :P

Any idea how much these will be?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Sean on November 26, 2008, 01:50:15 PM
I think this pretty much answers it:
[they] will be cheaper than pretty much all the current higher end offerings from other companies (I don't believe there is an MSRP officially yet, but expect something like 25-30 USD)
Although maybe there is a MSRP now?

They will be available worldwide to any retailer who wants to carry them. Duncan has a huge distribution network as they are one of the largest yoyo/toy companies out there (in business since 1929)... So if you have a favorite store, make sure they've placed their order.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kizzyontay52 on November 26, 2008, 08:15:17 PM
ok, i work for a toy shop. wel sell loadsa diabs but we get them all from butterfingers. how can we get some of these?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Ben. on November 26, 2008, 09:50:21 PM
ok, i work for a toy shop. wel sell loadsa diabs but we get them all from butterfingers. how can we get some of these?
if it is just a toy shop and not a juggling shop then it probably isn't going to get customers coming just for diabolos so stocking a new diabolo with new technology probably isn't going to be their priority. i don't know your situation that well so i may be wrong, but they probably will be quite happy with finesses and flys that a new one.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: zwiggelbig on November 26, 2008, 10:50:53 PM
ok, i work for a toy shop. wel sell loadsa diabs but we get them all from butterfingers. how can we get some of these?

You could ask if they could order a specific one? And that one could come with the rest of their stuff they order?

Thats what I do. I go to a sort of a toy shop and they just order specific things for me =)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Eric Moffett on November 27, 2008, 12:07:29 AM
if it is just a toy shop and not a juggling shop then it probably isn't going to get customers coming just for diabolos so stocking a new diabolo with new technology probably isn't going to be their priority. i don't know your situation that well so i may be wrong, but they probably will be quite happy with finesses and flys that a new one.

Well talk to your manager or store owner and see if they do business with Duncan Yo-Yo's. If they do you probably can order a unit or two of them. Simple.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kizzyontay52 on November 27, 2008, 08:01:02 PM
if it is just a toy shop and not a juggling shop then it probably isn't going to get customers coming just for diabolos so stocking a new diabolo with new technology probably isn't going to be their priority. i don't know your situation that well so i may be wrong, but they probably will be quite happy with finesses and flys that a new one.

biggest juggling shop in norwich..

nah, we dont have anything from duncan atm.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: LaNgErZ on November 27, 2008, 10:20:33 PM
duncan don't distribute in the uk so you have to go direct. they have price breaks depending on how much you buy of course but generally there are pretty good margins on most products, so it would be worth bearing in mind for your store kizzy (especially seeing as it has such a great name)

would definately like to get my hands on a pair for evaluation.

lz
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: William on November 29, 2008, 09:18:47 AM
so it would be worth bearing in mind

The pun was obviously not intentional?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Will G on November 30, 2008, 09:45:11 PM
duncan do distribute in the UK
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: LaNgErZ on December 01, 2008, 12:28:12 PM
i meant duncan do not have a set uk distributor, you have to buy from them directly. i know because i have done it myself.

but if you have more experience in the field of selling yo-yos and diabolos please elaborate further. oh thats right your 14

lz
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Spink on December 01, 2008, 01:47:18 PM
^^^^^^^^
 ::) HaNdBaGz Lz  :-*

Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on December 01, 2008, 04:14:43 PM
I'm quite sure any store can stock Duncan products if they so choose, all they need to do is contact Duncan about it.. seems pretty straight forward to me.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Will G on December 01, 2008, 07:13:30 PM
sorry langerz, I misunderstood, I thought you meant that you could not buy duncan products from a UK store.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on December 04, 2008, 06:44:36 PM
Looks like they have started arriving in stores.. went up on an american site today (infinite illusions)

..awful description for it, but it's there :)

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: aya on December 10, 2008, 09:46:39 PM
I don't post often but just wanted to pass on some info:

"The new Pheonix Duncan Diabolo arrived at Lofty Pursuits(infinite illusions' store front). Since Kyle  is leaving this week to move back Texas, we are going to have a release party for Kyle tonight from 6:30 to 7:30 pm. Please come by Lofty and join us and say hello to the new diabolo and good bye to Kyle."

So if you find yourself in Tallahassee, FL tonight with nothing to do....

As for the diab, I've had a little time with it and I'd give it 5 stars. one star for being a great beginner and advenced diab, one for the great $ value, one for the quality of parts, one its bearing/fixedness, one and a half stars for the quick tooless breakdown for traveling (and switching from bearing to fixed). subtract a half star for the funky sticks and lack of instructions (I don't need 'em but someone surly will)

Cheers.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Sean on December 18, 2008, 02:57:45 PM
I see that Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Duncan-Phoenix-Diabolo/dp/B001MMF8B6) and YoYoSam (http://www.yoyosam.com/Duncan-Phoenix-Diabolo-Set-5471) are also now carrying them in the US. A couple places are already sold out of reds. So - does anyone have one of these things and can post a real photo? Thanks Ken!

Higgins Brothers is hoping to get them soon in Canada.

Oh, and apparently there is something else (http://www.ripmax.com/item.asp?itemid=A-PMA044) named Phoenix Diabolo too. Bizarre.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Ken on December 18, 2008, 03:37:32 PM
So - does anyone have one of these things and can post a real photo?

Your wish is my (and all that shiz)...

[smg type=link align=none caption="Full size..." id=246]

[smg type=link align=none caption="Full size..." id=245]

I was up at the Oddballs shop in London yesterday, and Nathan had just got them in that day, so I had a play around to see what it was like.

Overall, I wasn't too impressed with it... I found quite frequently that the axle itself kept switching back and forth between fixed and bearing, which, granted, was easily rememdied whilst still spinning, but a little annoying. At one point the axle didn't seem to want to co-operate at all - it stayed in the fixed mode of play no matter how many times we (Nathan and myself) switched the bearing/fixed spacer over. There are other things that I didn't really like about it, but I'll leave it at that, for now.

Now, I'm not saying it's a bad diabolo, as they look quite cool and are rather clever to boot, just throwing my opinion out there (for what it's worth) - by no means am I a diabolo buff, so my experience/knowledge of this particular diabolo means... well, you get the idea.



Edit - You're more than welcome, Sean.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: mellowscholar on December 18, 2008, 05:23:56 PM
It seems odd that they'd even put them on the market with a problem like that, it's a pretty important and defining feature of the diabolo. It's a shame they've come out like that.

(Also, how come the posted date on those photos in the gallery is 26th September 2007?)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Sean on December 18, 2008, 06:29:56 PM
(Also, how come the posted date on those photos in the gallery is 26th September 2007?)
Because this is enabled in the gallery settings:
Quote
Use Exif datetime for upload date if available
If the file has Exif data available, the upload date will use its datetime setting instead of the current time.
I can only assume the date on Ken's camera is a bit off.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on December 18, 2008, 09:11:47 PM
So something interesting on the comment about it locking up.. I've been through a -lot- of prototypes, testing, etc.. and never had that problem. Then, today, I took a brand new one out of the package and played with it while out in the cold weather (rare here).. it did it a few times. I found that after about 10 minutes it stopped and didn't do it anymore, but it's the first I've ever seen that happen.

Not sure if this is a rough spot on the washer somewhere that wears down, or if it's the cold itself that is causing it, but the problem definitely is gone now and hasn't appeared again thus far.

I'd be interested to hear any other experience with this.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Diabolo88 on December 18, 2008, 09:57:30 PM
Quote
I found quite frequently that the axle itself kept switching back and forth between fixed and bearing, which, granted, was easily rememdied whilst still spinning, but a little annoying

So could you lock the axle into fixed mode entirely in some way (like with glue or something)? For 3D for instance that sound like it could be a major problem otherwise if one suddenly hopped to bearingmode.

The design from those pictures too is still so interesting. For multiple diabolo I still wonder about the control but the fact that they are so smoothly transitioning into the cups would possibly make them awesome for 1D-knots where you need to free loops quickly.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Ken on December 18, 2008, 10:33:20 PM
I can only assume the date on Ken's camera is a bit off.

Whoops!  :-X Evidently I'm not a camera buff also... Thanks for letting me know guys, I'll sort that out.

So could you lock the axle into fixed mode entirely in some way (like with glue or something)? For 3D for instance that sound like it could be a major problem otherwise if one suddenly hopped to bearingmode.

To be honest, I didn't have much trouble with the fixed falling into bearing mode, more the other way around. It did happen on the odd occasion though, but I'm not entirely sure what the solution could be.

I'm not going to rule the Phoenix out completely though (that'd be a bad idea in my opinion), for all I know the two diabolo's I tried out were faulty, or there was something that I missed. It seems that quite a few people have had a good experience with them already, it's just a shame that my first impression was a bad one.

I had a thought after I made my first post here. It related back to a quote I heard a while back that kinda relates to this... It goes something like 'He who never made a mistake, never tried anything new'. I imagine that if experiences like this are frequent, Duncan (or someone else, for that matter) will find a solution.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings...

Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: William on December 19, 2008, 01:21:23 AM
They look a bit.. Euh?
Remind me of flys, but with a shallow-er cup.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: monkiatzu on December 19, 2008, 05:54:46 AM
They look a bit.. Euh?
Remind me of flys, but with a shallow-er cup.

yea the cups are really shallow.
the cups are kidnda closer to flat rather than curved.
That isnt a bad thing, it could be better.
very interesting though
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Matyz on December 31, 2008, 03:37:47 PM
Interchangable could make problems if it stops to work. Nobody in the world plays with a diabolo and never drops.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Will G on December 31, 2008, 09:58:58 PM
I just bought two from the oddballs shop in London, I love the look of them and they have a fairly rubbery cup so no issues with cups breaking on concrete.

The axle is a problem at first, with the switching, but after about 30 mins of play they stay in either mode almost perfectly.  The bearings are quite loud and feel rough at first, but with a little play they smoothen out and feel nice, though they do stay quite loud. In bearing mode they can go into fixed for a second or two but not much. It has happened 2 times in the 5 hours I have been using it, but that will probably become perfect after a little more play. In fixed axle mode they cannot slip into bearing at all.

The knobs can't be undone easily at first as they are tightened ALOT! but then again that could just be because I am 13 and fairly weak.  After using a vice to get them off I can tighten and un-tighten them just fine.

The bearing and fixed axle both work fine now and I really like them. For £25 they are well worth the money.

In 2009 packs of 2 cups will come out so that you can change the cup colours. Also in 2009 they will release light kits for them.

The sticks that come with them are plastic with rubber grips. They are very flexible and are about  the same length as short carbon fibres.

Specs (as on box):
Weight:260 grams
Size:5-1/4" Diameter x 5-3/8" Long.

All in all, I love them. Hope this has been helpful. (Pics to come soon)




Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: jamzjazz on January 11, 2009, 05:16:05 PM
firstly i havnt got a bearing diabolo yet.Should i get this or a fly?
Secondly has anyone done a test of this yet?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Beni on January 11, 2009, 05:18:31 PM
Look up.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: jamzjazz on January 13, 2009, 08:46:31 AM
Look up.

sorry i meant a video test
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Hathaway on January 13, 2009, 11:12:50 AM
Because a video test is going to tell you so much more then what people have written?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: jamzjazz on January 13, 2009, 06:04:12 PM
Because a video test is going to tell you so much more then what people have written?

i suppose it wont realy and i have read all that but i think i just wanted to see someone use it anyway forget about it. doesn't matter   ::)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Will G on January 13, 2009, 07:41:35 PM
I would do a vid but i'm not really that brill.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Ben. on January 13, 2009, 07:47:53 PM
Langerz, when are you getting your hands on them?

Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: looby on January 13, 2009, 08:13:56 PM
Funty and myself had a dabble with these the other night.  If you can consider us reliable sources for reviews of props and such then listen closely.

Avoiding beating around the bush, the bearing is pretty grim... Although the fly axle isn't perfect (the axle has a half mm gap either side on mine) it does its job very well, the phoenix in bearing mode feels very very cheap.  In bearing mode it tended to wobble pretty easily which wasn't a good sign and sounded like it had grit stuck inside it.  So bad infact that Nathan informed us Duncan are shipping them out with a new bearing axle in the very near future.

In fixed mode they play fairly nicely and seem more on the lighter side.  This makes me wonder why you'd bother in that case.  Until the bearing issue is fixed you may as well spend the extra £2.50 and get some taibolos from Nev's shop since these are on the lighter side, therefore a good comparison.  Until the bearing issue is fixed they aren't exactly the dream mulit tasker we all hoped for I'm afraid.

Tornados with wide axles and light kits on the other hand feel amazing.....
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: LaNgErZ on January 13, 2009, 11:21:39 PM
Langerz, when are you getting your hands on them?
i've had my hands on them for a while, i'll tell the story.......

they turned up at my shop in the morning, i got one out of its package, i read all the stuff about the revesible washer etc. set it up for bearing....... and melted the washer in under a minute.

dont buy them they are awfull, buy flys from diabolomoves.co.uk. simple

lz

edit: loving the auto .com to .co.uk there..... very nice, i stand corrected
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Eric Moffett on January 14, 2009, 01:14:45 AM
i've had my hands on them for a while, i'll tell the story.......

they turned up at my shop in the morning, i got one out of its package, i read all the stuff about the revesible washer etc. set it up for bearing....... and melted the washer in under a minute.

dont buy them they are awfull, buy flys from diabolomoves.co.uk. simple

lz

edit: loving the auto .com to .co.uk there..... very nice, i stand corrected

Maybe you need titanium washers?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on January 14, 2009, 03:31:32 AM
i've had my hands on them for a while, i'll tell the story.......

they turned up at my shop in the morning, i got one out of its package, i read all the stuff about the revesible washer etc. set it up for bearing....... and melted the washer in under a minute.

dont buy them they are awfull, buy flys from diabolomoves.co.uk. simple

lz

edit: loving the auto .com to .co.uk there..... very nice, i stand corrected

..I'm sorry, but huh? you melted a washer? Please send me a PM and perhaps I can help.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Kingsid3 on January 16, 2009, 09:01:12 PM
LaNgErZ  your skills melted them, just like they melt faces...

End of that.....
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Ben. on January 16, 2009, 09:35:44 PM
you do know that Langerz videos are sped up right?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Matt? on January 16, 2009, 10:32:09 PM
his style is more lazy than Crackers.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kizzyontay52 on January 17, 2009, 02:09:56 PM
you do know that Langerz videos are sped up right?

no, they arent.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNca1bDF0eI

3:30 onwards, every other person is in normal speed, so is the car in the background.

 i hope you were joking :P
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: ecuador16 on January 17, 2009, 08:51:38 PM
i have two questions
who carries these diabolos in the US and what type of diabolo does langerz use it looks like a fixed fly
but smaller

im sure people have asked him that a million times and
langerz is the washer plastic?
it doesent make any sense for it to be plastic they should have known it would melt
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: ep2992 on January 17, 2009, 11:31:04 PM
I just got The Duncan Phoenix Thursday evening in the mail. ( I ordered it on amazon.com.)  Here's what I liked and didn't like:
The Diabolo:
This is a very fun diabolo, although it does have it's problems.
The bearing is enjoyable to use and serves it's purpose:
the bearing mode spins quite fast. With the standard setup, it dosen't seem to spin as long as others because it's lighter than a lot of other diabolos, like my finesse. But the bearing caused it to spin for as long as I needed it to.
When I first used the bearing it shook, but it dosen't seem to do that anymore. It is also pretty loud in bearing mode.
The standard axle is also pretty good (It's wide, which I like)
But, as I said before, It has a pretty short spin time.
Sometimes the diabolo switches in mid trick from bearing to standard, or from standard to bearing, but it hasn't happened more than a few times so far and isn't a big issue.
The Knobs:
This is where I'm having the most trouble. First of all,about 50% of the time the diabolo hit the ground or anything else in my basement, where I was practicing last night, the knobs kept coming loose and having to be tightened.
Today I practiced in my snow covered back yard (and a a little bit in my basement) and this didn't happen at all. But the biggest issue for me was this: This afternoon I was using the bearing, and in mid use it switched to standard mode, and was not switching back like it normally does. So I tried opening it up, but I could only unscrew the knob on one side, the other side would not open. it was as if that knob had been super glued to the cup and the screw that goes through the axle. Both me and my father could not unscrew it.
It's now the evening and I'm still unable to open the diabolo from that side.
 (you need to open the diabolo from sides and flip both washers to make the diabolo bearing or standard.) The manual warned about not tightening the diabolo too much, but as far as I know I didn't tighten the diabolo anymore than I had in the past two days.
I'm not sure what to do about this. Does anyone have any solutions?
The Sticks
They aren't the most important part, but I thought I'd mention them.
I like these sticks. They are plastic with rubber grips. They're good for grinds
and aren't too heavy. They are also easy to attach the string too and so far I haven't had a problem with my knot coming out through the hole in the stick and having to retie it.
-----------------------------
This is a very nice diabolo, except for the knob issue.  It think it is the most fun diabolo I have used since my sundia fly broke. I think it is worth the money, but people should probably wait until the Duncan company comes out with a version that has less trouble with the knobs. Hopefully that will happen soon, because then this diabolo will be completely worth it.
Hope this info helps.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on January 18, 2009, 12:55:03 AM
"The Diabolo:

With the standard setup, it dosen't seem to spin as long as others because it's lighter than a lot of other diabolos, like my finesse."

The diabolo is I believe 20g heavier than the standard finesse.

"The Knobs:
 So I tried opening it up, but I could only unscrew the knob on one side, the other side would not open. it was as if that knob had been super glued to the cup and the screw that goes through the axle. Both me and my father could not unscrew it.
It's now the evening and I'm still unable to open the diabolo from that side."

Despite the directions on the box, you only need to flip one spacer actually. I have one side locked in place and just use the other..

"The Sticks
They aren't the most important part, but I thought I'd mention them.
I like these sticks. They are plastic with rubber grips. They're good for grinds
and aren't too heavy. They are also easy to attach the string too and so far I haven't had a problem with my knot coming out through the hole in the stick and having to retie it."

Yea, the sticks are 'ok'.. they aren't top of the line, but they don't need to be for 99% of the people buying them. I think they're some of the best standard out of the box sticks out there (way nicer than those hideous wooden things henry's uses)

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: -Leo- on January 25, 2009, 02:07:35 PM
Woo! Exams are done now so I'll be on the forum a bit more now, aswell as updating the gear guide and sticky now :)

I had a play with one of these yesterday and thought they were ok, not fantastic though. Obviously I'd need to test it for more than 15 minutes to get a full 'feel' for them though. I was chatting to the owner of my local juggling shop (which is where I was trying out the diabolo) and he said he thinks that the price on them is going up to £35 from the £23 he was selling them at originally. This isn't due to cahnges in the diabolo or anything, just the cost of importing them at the moment.

Anyone else heard anything like this?

-Leo

Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: nev on January 25, 2009, 02:28:01 PM
^ That would not surprise me at all - the Sundia stuff has recently gone up in price pretty sharply for the same reason (exchange rates and the weak pound) - 6 months ago £1 was worth $2.10 - now its only worth $1.36.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that anything bought in USD is now costing a lot more UK£'s to get here - the shipping cost is also more as is the tax when it does arrive.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: K on March 29, 2009, 11:27:14 AM
My friend who owns a circus store around me is getting these in soon. Im hoping to have a go. How do they compare to Fly's and Suns and Finesse's etc etc?

-K
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Funty on March 29, 2009, 04:44:27 PM
they dont really. if you've got a fly and a sun don't bother getting one of these:)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Jim Brennan on April 06, 2009, 02:31:43 AM
I saw one of these at the Madfest Juggling Festival, Madison, WI, USA in January.

It rated pretty high with me.  It runs quiet and is balanced.

Only 2 cons:
1) Wish it was a 5 inch diabolo.
2) Seemed like it took a lot of strength to tighten this one up after conversion so it wouldn't wobble.

Here's a link off diabolotricks.com to a video of assembly ect.

http://diabolotricks.com/videos/Duncan/Duncan4.wmv (http://diabolotricks.com/videos/Duncan/Duncan4.wmv)

I also noticed that Serious Juggling is selling them for $27 USD.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Will G on April 06, 2009, 11:41:25 AM
1) Wish it was a 5 inch diabolo.

I think it is...
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Sean on April 06, 2009, 01:53:26 PM
Interesting. Thanks for the video, Jim.
1) Wish it was a 5 inch diabolo.
I assumed it was too. Higgins is listing it as 5 inch. Is it 4.5?
Following up on my earlier posts I should mention that Higgins Brothers is now carrying these in Canada (http://www.higginsbrothers.com/buyphoenix.htm) (and also ship to the US).
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Will G on April 06, 2009, 09:50:25 PM
Interesting. Thanks for the video, Jim.I assumed it was too. Higgins is listing it as 5 inch. Is it 4.5?
Following up on my earlier posts I should mention that Higgins Brothers is now carrying these in Canada (http://www.higginsbrothers.com/buyphoenix.htm) (and also ship to the US).

It's the same size as a finesse
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Jim Brennan on April 07, 2009, 03:18:57 AM
Oh, I see that they are 5 inch now.  The prototype we tried was about a 4.5 inch.  I do like the Sundia Fly better.  As long as they stay low in price, the Duncan Phoenix are a great bargain to someone looking to upgrade from a crappy diabolo.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: TonyDHelms29624 on April 07, 2009, 11:34:32 AM
IMHO, I love the Phoenix diabolo. I think it's one of the better ones that I have. I actually prefer these over the Finesses.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on April 09, 2009, 06:11:50 AM
Oh, I see that they are 5 inch now.  The prototype we tried was about a 4.5 inch.  I do like the Sundia Fly better.  As long as they stay low in price, the Duncan Phoenix are a great bargain to someone looking to upgrade from a crappy diabolo.

Sorry, but as I have every prototype of this diabolo ever made sitting in my closet, there was never a 4.5" version.

The diabolo fits perfectly into a spot that was missing. I personally use my above anything else, but I'm also biased.. I do still love my suns and finesses.

It's far better than the cheap stuff, and it plays well enough to be used for anything.. but it probably won't win over people who are already using high end diabolos. It does offer a -cheap- bearing solution for beginners, and ends any debate over buying fixed or bearing.. no need to risk not liking one or the other.

Also a side note to anybody who has had trouble with bearings locking.. it is being fixed, I'll let you guys know as soon as I have more information.. you should be able to get a replacement.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Bish on April 22, 2009, 04:42:00 AM
I'm looking forward to playing with one of these. I want to see how they compare to other bearing diabolos. I'm also wondering how long it takes to go from bearing to fixed. does any one have a rough idea?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: kyo on April 22, 2009, 08:15:47 AM
I could probably do it in maybe 15-20 seconds? It's quite simple.. unscrew knob, pull off shell, flip spacer, put on shell, screw on knob.

Note: there is word that replacement bearings are going to be made available soon for those experiencing problems.

Kyle
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Hathaway on April 22, 2009, 06:38:54 PM
So its about the same time it takes to change the axle on a fly?
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: seán_ on April 22, 2009, 06:53:45 PM
So its about the same time it takes to change the axle on a fly?
Takes me longer than that to go between fixed and bearing on a fly. (what with finding the tools and ordering a fixed axle and everything :)
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: William on April 23, 2009, 07:08:58 AM
I can already imagine another convention game..
I really want to try one of these Duncan diabolos. Its a shame they sound about as useful as a wooden frying pan.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Will G on April 23, 2009, 07:15:00 PM
I think that they're ok diabolos, if you want a bearing diabolo I would buy a fly though. I say this because the bearings in them are not all that good. They work very well as a fixed axle but wobble a little. All in all they are good.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: Hathaway on April 24, 2009, 09:56:32 AM
Clearly I was assuming ownership of the axle already... You don't need tools to take apart a fly.
Title: Re: Phoenix Diabolo: New Diabolo from Duncan Yo-yos
Post by: jordak on October 20, 2009, 12:44:15 AM
(sorry for the necro)

I want to get one of these before my roomate's wedding in April. (My Sundia Sun was stolen about a year ago). The chief factor in selecting this is the price; the bearing/fixed axle is a bonus for me.

Given some of the things other people have said (axle switching, knobs in the cups) I was wondering if I can expect an updated Phoenix to come out in time for my roomate's wedding.

Any more rumors/news from Kyo?


All of my concerns about the current model were put to rest in an im chat with kyo. I plan on buying the Phoenix sometime in the next few months.
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