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Diabolo.ca Forums => Tricks => Topic started by: seán_ on November 17, 2004, 03:44:41 AM

Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: seán_ on November 17, 2004, 03:44:41 AM
in the thread on 2 diabolo mini genocides  (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=25) Kragen asked:

Quote from: kragen
Does anyone know where some guides for the one diabolo genocides / genocide related tricks are?

I've looked around but I cant find anything, there are a couple of mightily impressive looking video's around, but no guides.

I really want to have a go at learning after seeing Norbi's vid's they look awesome!


So I thought well if a guide doesn't exist this forum is probably a good place to gather peoples thoughts about this family of tricks.

First  of  having a look at Norbis videos (http://norbithejuggler.co.uk/home.html) (and others) is a great starting point.

I see there as being three distinct ways of doing these tricks. (but I am willing to be proven wrong)

a) Horizontal to the body, off to the left or right of centre (eg. Norbis earlier videos)

b) In front of the body in line with the right arm (the Way Andy P. does them)

c) In front of the body from infinite suicides (French style / Norbis newer videos)

I learned a) first, (mini genocides then genocides then overcides). Then at Bristol I learned b) from  Andy P. who sees it as a good method to be able to sight the diabolo and string. I havent played around with c)

How I learned to do a mini-genocide a) method. (pics to follow)

-First watch Norbis video of a mini genocide (http://norbithejuggler.co.uk/movies/xyminigenocide.mov)
-Then find yourself some space, you are about to do something that might come as a shock to others.
-Throw the diabolo a bit to the right and recapture so your left hand is over the right. let the diabolo settle at the bottom (this is for when you are learning, in practice all this becomes one movement) with  both sticks vertical and in line, left hand still over right, right hand lower than the left.
-Pinch the string using two fingers of the Right hand. I use my middle and index fingers but I think others use finger and thumb.
-Swing the whole thing gently to the left to about 8 o'clock.
-Swing  smoothly to the right and  as it rises let the right handstick slip from your grip.
-Keep hold of the pinch grip, you are aiming for the diabolo to be released so that it travels vertically up.
-Allow the right handstick to travel in a circle so that as the diabolo falls the string will catch the diabolo and start to encirlcle the axle.
-Do your best to catch the right hand stick (you can let go of the pinch grip now if not earlier I dont think its a conscious thing).
-A few things can happen you can find yourself in a string climb(nice) or you can miss the grab and end up with a double or more wrap to deal with. You'll work it out.

The important things I think are to keep everything smoothe and in line. Having somebody to spot you to make sure that the diabolo is being released vertically (or pretty near) and that you are swinging the string in line with the diabolo. Play about with different ways of holding the string and different paces of swings untill it works for you.
If you pinch the string close to the diabolo it will spin quicker and vice versa.
You can physically move your right hand (and whole body)  to help the catch if you haven't got the launch  quite right its if you have gone out of line where real problems seem to occur.

Once you get this, the Genocide is fairly simmilar in my opinion, just don't pinch the string and swing the right stick in a big circle using your left hand. The release is vertical / back towards the centre with a bit more height to allow for the bigger circle.
Where you can have problems is by swinging the string out of line. thats why I try and keep the left stick in line with the string. I have my knuckles facing up as I swing and release but turn my hand over as I pass 12 o'clock (I think but I'll give it some thought tomorrow night at juggling) again having somebody check your alignment (or use a video camera) should help.

heres a video of me and Mattf doing genocides, we start kind of simmilar, I catch closer to the left stick (closer than I usually do but its all good), matt ends in an infinite suicide.
[video]genocides, two different finishes (http://www.elveystreet.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sean/diabolo/sean_%20mattf%20genocides.avi)

b) The way I was taught this (for Genocide)

-From around the arm orbit position turn your body 90 degrees so that you are now sideways on to the traditional way you diabolo.
-Scoop catch/scoop sun.
-Bring your left stick so it is vertical and in line with the string as the diabolo starts to rise in front of you.
-let go of the LEFT stick to allow the diabolo to rise up in the air (vertically for preference).
-Let the left stick swing in a big circle to recapture the falling diabolo.
-Catch left stick and deal with situation.

Again what you want to be looking for is trying to keep things in line. this method is good because you can see easily if you are out of line.

c) havent got a clue but suppose learning a) or b) wouldn't hurt as would learning infinite suicides

Seán_

( hope this is helpfull and isn't me trying to pass on my twisted methods. I can think of plenty of members who  would be better placed to explain this family of tricks but maybe this gets the ball rolling.)

(nb. I edited the mini genocide bit as I had said pinch with the left instead of right also I realised that when I do a genocide I launch towards the centre rather than straight up)
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Sean on November 17, 2004, 07:05:22 AM
Wow, that was quite thorough. Thanks for putting that together and getting this started. I'm interested in where this will go because I'm quite weak at genocides and I'd love to learn more.

I think some basic genocides and genocide variations would make a great video tutorial. I believe Norbi had mentioned doing something like that for us... or am I wrong... I can't remember off the top of my head. You up for doing that shortly, Norbi? I think there is definitely demand out there.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: kragen on November 17, 2004, 02:08:18 PM
Neat - thanks im definitely gonna have to give that a go :)
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: MattF on November 18, 2004, 07:37:53 AM
Sean showed me how to do a mini genocide last night. It seems a touch easier than i anticipanted. I tried it a few times before but had complete;y the wrong technique, so cheers for the info Sean. I will try to master it this week ;)
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Eduardo on November 22, 2004, 05:58:16 PM
Quote from: seán_

-Pinch the string using two fingers of the left hand. I use my middle and index fingers but I think others use finger and thumb.

I don't know if I'm wrong but should'nt the pinching be with the right hand instead?

And another question, I try this, but when my string hits the diabolo axle, it wraps once or twice on it and the diabolo goes down on the string, hitting the right stick and going to the floor. Any tips on what I'm doing wrong?
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: JGherkin on November 22, 2004, 07:03:25 PM
If that were happenin its prolly worth tryin it on the other side, I dont no for sure but that'd be the first thing i'd have a look at trying, not a fellow lefty by any chance are you?   :P  either that or maybe thats wot the instruction were written in?? I haven't given a shot at followin them yet
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Eduardo on November 22, 2004, 07:55:57 PM
No, I'm not left handed, I'm telling this because of Norbi's video, it seems he pinches with the right hand...
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: norbi on November 22, 2004, 08:29:11 PM
Yes i pinch with my right becuase it goes smoother into string climbs and Not-So-infinite suicides.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: seán_ on November 23, 2004, 02:47:36 AM
Oops, yes that should be Right hand for the pinch, sorry

As for hitting the floor, try catching the stick after one revoloution and go into  a string climb like Norbi does or chinese whip (or simmilar wrap move). If I miss and get a couple of wraps around the axle I try and get rid of at least one quite quickly by sending it over the left stick.
It might be worth playing around with where you grip the string,  how far to the side you do this trick and how high of the floor you release and catch the diabolo and if you catch the stick below the level of the diabolo (which may lead to the diabolo slipping to the floor Eduardo) or above.
Just change these around a bit and see if that helps.

Seán_
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Arjan on November 23, 2004, 02:59:58 AM
Well, a genocide is possible at any side, from any position. But at the "wrong" side the stick goes very fast around, because of the spinning of the diabolo, but it is possible to do it. These tricks look very cool in combo`s
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Eduardo on November 25, 2004, 09:57:08 AM
Woot!! I pulled it, twice last night, now I'm having a hard time catching the stick, most times it either hits my hand and bounces or I just miss it (I don't know how) and it wraps several times on the axle... but I'm very very happy for those two succesful ones.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: kragen on November 25, 2004, 01:37:16 PM
bah, ive just had a go at doing this and I cant manage it...

-Throw the diabolo a bit to the right and recapture so your left hand is over the right. let the diabolo settle at the bottom (this is for when you are learning, in practice all this becomes one movement) with both sticks vertical and in line, left hand still over right, right hand lower than the left.

So after this step there will be an open string, but only if your left hand is to the right of your right?

-Pinch the string using two fingers of the Right hand. I use my middle and index fingers but I think others use finger and thumb.

Wherabouts do you pinch the string? At this point a picture would be good because I completely cant visualise this :S

Also when the diabolo hits the string again wherabouts is the righthandstick in relation to the left?

I've been trying to piece together this method with one of norbi's video's but I cant seem to find one in which he follows this method... im completely lost :S

thanks for any help :)
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Eduardo on November 25, 2004, 03:48:12 PM
I made this picture, this is the way I do it, I'm not sure it is correct, but at least it works to me (once in a while :P)
(http://aurum.bavs.com.br/~aurum/sand/pinch.gif)
ps. for righties
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Arjan on November 25, 2004, 03:54:13 PM
Your picture is down  :cry:
Hmmm now it isn`t anymore... nice!
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: kragen on November 25, 2004, 04:44:35 PM
ah cool! :D

Thanks that makes things a LOAD clearer.

I will give that a try tomorrow...
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: murifri on November 25, 2004, 08:02:40 PM
I broke my Henry's carbon fibre at juggle club on monday.  I was practicing the genocide into infinite suicide a little too close to a wall and the stick hit a light fitting.  I got the stick back and it was all bendy.

Now what does this have to do genocides i hear you wonder...

A mate lent me some Mr. Babache aluminums until I could get down to the juggling shop to get some more sticks.   But low and behold, as soon as I try anouther genocide it works like ca charm.  The aluminum sticks are so much better for genocides and infinite suicides, the extra weight really helps to keep the stick rotating and the diabolo in the air.

But the ones I'm using now are far too long, so next set of sticks I get are going to be much smaller aluminiums, the wide world of genocides beckons.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: seán_ on November 27, 2004, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: Eduardo
I made this picture, this is the way I do it, I'm not sure it is correct, but at least it works to me (once in a while :P)


The drawings right, thanks for that I was hoping to get a pic but have lent my camera out.

I tend to pinch the string about a third of the length from the left stick. Although I said release straight up for both tricks I believe I release so the diabolo comes back towards the centre for the genocide so that i can catch it near the leftstick (I like to end the trick in a stopover, infinite suicides are for those who can't catch the stick ;) )

heres a video of me and Mattf doing genocides, we start kind of simmilar, I catch closer to the left stick (closer than I usually do but its all good), matt ends in an infinite suicide.
[video]genocides, two different finishes (http://www.elveystreet.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sean/diabolo/sean_%20mattf%20genocides.avi)

I'll try and get a mini genocide on tape but it would be fairly simmilar to the way Norbi does his (without the style or the string climb ;) ) Norbi, mini genocide (http://norbithejuggler.co.uk/movies/xyminigenocide.mov)
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Sean on November 27, 2004, 05:23:20 PM
Nice little video! This thread and videos like that have finally convinced me to delve further into the world of genocides. There's been some serious neglect of these tricks on my part in the past!  :roll:

Sean
Title: alternative way to get into Mini g
Post by: seán_ on February 26, 2005, 08:24:14 PM
In [Tutorial] Arjan's 2 diabolo mini genocide, by norbi (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=394) there is an excelent description and video showing how to do a 1d minigenocide.

Basically the differences between the one described earlier in this thread are, the use of a finger to rotate the string upon launch rather than a pinch (you can see this on the diabology educational video as well) and the method of getting the diabolo on the darkside of the string.

Norbi uses a couple of inverted stopovers as a magic knot on the Right side then throws it across to the left and does a mini g (the Right hand will be over/infront of the Left in this version a small point which will make it feel a bit different at first)

I have been using magic knots on the left to enter mini g's and genocides recently, its very simmilar I just like doing knots on that side and means you can enter it from different tricks.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: mitchelljuggles on March 01, 2005, 04:50:20 AM
Ive been playing around with some genocides of late. the other day was using wooden sticks and something went wrong! the string wrapped around the axel and i copped the wrong end of the stick on my eyebrow. :oops: Its a very cool trick and i plan not to let a mild concussion keep me from mastering this one!
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Andy on March 01, 2005, 07:26:57 AM
Hey, anyone got any tips for doing the mini-genocide after the whole infintie suicide to genocide thing? I've managed to get it some times but its always really sketchy as usually the diabolo slips down the string and hits the end of my stick making it wobble everywhere. If this doesn't happen then I never get enough height on the diabolo to do the mini-genocide though!
I'm using carbon fibres and i bet someones gonna say get aluminiums, but is there any other way i can improve these without buying new gear?
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: kragen on March 02, 2005, 12:22:57 PM
which is easier - the mini genocide or the full one?

I know how to do the trick now - its just I ALWAYS miss the diabolo, if i do manage to catch it then I miss the handstick! :P

Think I've managed to pull it off once with the diabolo still spinning at the end of the trick - even then I caught the string :P
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: seán_ on March 02, 2005, 01:30:29 PM
Personally I got the mini one first, but now I would say I find the full version easier.

As for missing the diabolo, try and concentrate on getting everything in line, both the sticks and the swing.

Where the diabolo lands/ is caught will have a bearing on your success, so a bit of playing about with that might help.

On the full one I find it easiest to catch it quite close to my left hand, this lets the right handstick have a relatively casual swing. On the mini I try not to launch/catch too low and right.

Dont be too proud to catch the string and sort it all out later.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: kragen on March 05, 2005, 05:20:33 PM
yeah - maybe im just being an idiot and trying to "catch" the diabolo rather than just letting it land where it wants to.

I might have a go with the mini genocide as well and see if that makes things any easier.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Sharpes on March 05, 2005, 06:14:00 PM
To Andy:

I think you're talking about a mini genocide with an extra wrap, like you do when you do infinite mini-genocides (diabolumberto's latest vidoe, trick of the week, and antonin in diabology). Antonin and diabolumberto do it where you just let go of the stick, making sure it unwraps on the correct side of the string, and then just as it passes 12 o'clock (going counterclockwise), pull up, and do the mini-genocide, the same holds for doing it on the left side (letting go with the left stick from a frontwrap). just let go, and pull just as it goes past 12.

I like to pull twice after letting go, once to propel it around, immediately after letting go, and again just after it's vertical. I find it let's me control where the diabolo goes a lot more. Hope that helped

-jacob
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: martijn on March 05, 2005, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: Sharpes
I like to pull twice after letting go, once to propel it around, immediately after letting go, and again just after it's vertical. I find it let's me control where the diabolo goes a lot more. Hope that helped

Yes, I do that too. It helps me also with infinite suicide to genocide.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Sharpes on March 06, 2005, 04:13:02 PM
I've been trying to do antonin's infinite suicide to genocide, as in popping it way high and having the stick spin like 3 times (I can do the regular pop off an catch immediately. I'm using carbon fibre's, and having no success, the highest i can get it is like 2 feet above my head.

-jacob
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Capitaine buisson on March 07, 2005, 02:55:34 AM
Quote from: Eduardo
I made this picture, this is the way I do it, I'm not sure it is correct, but at least it works to me (once in a while :P)
(http://aurum.bavs.com.br/~aurum/sand/pinch.gif)
ps. for righties

thank's i actually working on this your draw will be very usefull
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Alex on March 07, 2005, 04:40:17 AM
For mini-genocides, I actually just drop the handstick and then pull up on the string, so the handstick pulls the diabolo up.  I find it much easier than swinging the diabolo.  Of course, I don't know how well it will work for differen equipment.  I'm using regular G1 Finesse, and Henry's Carbon Fibre handsticks.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: viiru on March 07, 2005, 12:47:10 PM
One of my favourite genocide variations is worth a try. Looks much more aerial than normal geno.

First do "dot the i" trick with rather loose wrappings. When your left handstick is swinging freely downwards, launch the diabolo straight up with the left handstick, and "hitting" your hand forward at the same time(normally you would spin the string clockwise, but do it counterclockwise), and catch a handstick behind your shoulder. as a result, you'll get an "inverse" genocide and a lots of respect :).

A bit hard to explain, i'll try to make an video out of it today.

Is there a possibility to do genocide with two diabolos (both flying)? I have a faint memory that I've seen that done here in Finland but maybe I've been dreaming or so :).
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: diabololi on March 07, 2005, 12:59:58 PM
Yeah, that would be prety amazing, I guess it would go into a sprinkler.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Spooned on May 23, 2005, 06:31:25 PM
When i try a minigen the string always just wraps around the diab instead of flying off and recapturing it, any ideas about what happensor the side I throw it off, 'cause it seems to be the way that you throw it to the opposite side you would for a proper gen?
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: JGherkin on May 23, 2005, 06:51:21 PM
Possibly when you release the stick its going the wrong side of the string to let it unwrap? Try slowing it down and making sure you release on the right side (thats right as in right/wrong not right/left)  :)
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Andy on May 23, 2005, 06:51:39 PM
ah, the stick is going round the diabolo, but instead of undoing the backside, it is making a sun type knot. The way to get around this is to hold the stick being released either more forwards or backwards, depending on which backside you are trying it from. hope it helps...
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Spooned on May 23, 2005, 07:47:08 PM
Thanks guys, almost there now  :)
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Twilite on June 25, 2005, 03:55:29 PM
I was trying these today, and have the general movement there, but am having a problem with (I think) the beginning.

---NOOB QUESTION FOLLOWS-----

To start, you back wrap, that correct? Now the terms I've used in the past didn't include 'back wrapping', but I presume it's one of two things. I've tried both and neither worked too well, but I thought I'd clarify which it was supposed to be before I went any further...

1. BackSIDE, as in the start of a coffee grinder or fritz, where there's a half cross in the strings?
2. Or a wrap around the axel like before an infinite suicide?

I presume, after reading the answer below about making it unwrap properly it's the second, but earlier on someone said about it being equivalent to an open string, if you crossed your arms, which would be the first of my two, and no one corrected that, so I'm a little confused!

I can get it close (just missing the catch) with an open string though, as a result of being unsure which way to start, which I thought was strange? Any room for variations there?

Thanks.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: ronnie2tone on June 26, 2005, 01:00:59 AM
Quote from: Spooned
When i try a minigen the string always just wraps around the diab instead of flying off and recapturing it, any ideas about what happensor the side I throw it off, 'cause it seems to be the way that you throw it to the opposite side you would for a proper gen?


I used to suffer from this as well. The solution for me was to concentrate on dropping the open stick as straight as possible and trying to keep it as straight as possible. It usually  :wink: goes to the correct side of the string

(This way also works when you are continuing onto your 2nd mini-gen as it doesn't matter which side you catch the 1st mini-gen, just aim straight)
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: seán_ on June 26, 2005, 02:03:57 AM
Twilite, it might be a bit confusing since there are several tricks mentioned in this thread
If we are talking about the base 1d tricks that most people learn first then it's backside.

Backside (or darkside) means the diabolo is on the other side of the string (such as you do for the tricks you mentioned) but not neccesarily with a cross because you can have your hands crossed instead of the string.

This is the case in the genocide and mini G mentioned in the at the start of this thread. (the diabolo will look like its on an open sting but your right hand will be over the left (or right depending on how you got the diabolo to that side)).
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: QUOTH on July 20, 2005, 07:39:07 AM
ok, this thread so far has been ALOT of help but id like a few things cleared up, if anyone could be so kind to give another newby some advice.

whats the difference between a genocide and a nmini genocide, iev read through the thread but cant spot the difefrence? and i just want to be shure that norbis video is of a mini genocide?

next question, whats the purpose of pinching the strings. is it just to help throw the diabolo directly up?

havent tried it yet, but i will today at colledge :D
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: norbi on July 20, 2005, 10:40:53 AM
Quote from: QUOTH

whats the difference between a genocide and a nmini genocide, iev read through the thread but cant spot the difefrence? ...

next question, whats the purpose of pinching the strings?


tada, you've worked it out. The difference is that the regular genocide is where the whole string swings around in a huge circle (becoming less and less popular these days i find, apart from out of infinite suicide) AND the mini-genocide is where you pinch the string, becuase as you may notice, its only half the size of a normal genocide, and hence.... mini.

Hope that clears it up for you.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: QUOTH on July 27, 2005, 09:38:59 AM
so the pinch is just to shortern the string which you swing, making it much quicker.

so norbis video is of a full genocide? :S


will try mini genocides then :D
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Spink on July 27, 2005, 11:46:55 AM
Quote from: QUOTH
so the pinch is just to shortern the string which you swing, making it much quicker.

will try mini genocides then :D


Mini genocides seem alot easier to control but non jugglers seem more impressed with full ones

anywho.........
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Andy S on July 27, 2005, 08:09:08 PM
Thanks so much for the tutorial/this entire thread!  With all your AWESOME help, I got it within an hour of first trying it.  It gave me one of those priceless rush feelings like what I got with my first suicide -- I expect it'll be a little slower to wear off this time.  So, yeah, thanks both Sean and Norbi (I watched the video about 20 times).  You made my day/week.

-Andy S
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: ScottMcG on September 15, 2005, 11:56:17 PM
i cant get the diabolo to go up high enough so the stick to come back round again to catch it! any tips on gettin the daibolo up further?
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: seán_ on September 16, 2005, 12:00:28 AM
just keep at it, a positive amont of swing and getting the timing of the release right.  dont have the right hand (the release hand) higher than the left (IMHO)
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Chiok on September 16, 2005, 12:07:10 AM
Yeah, this got me for ages when I first started minigs.  The unfortunate thing is that it comes down to a knack for when the right time to pull up on the string is.  If too early, you'll pull the dibolo up too early and the stick will wrap around it.  Too late and you get the problem of it not hopping high enough.  You want to aim for - let go of the stick - in one fluid motion, move to pinch the string and pull up with a good tug.  When you get the right timing and force of pull, the diabolo will pop up and possibly off to the left too.  

This is why it also helps to do the minig from a string knot entry like a RHBW - 2 inverse trapezes - throw to the left string which will get you in the darkside with the right stick forward.  When you throw the diabolo at the left piece of string, it will cause the diabolo to swing to the right after the release which gives you a bit of momentum with the pop.  Or just a simple throw up and recapture on the darkside will also make it swing to the right.  Two left inverse trapezes might work too.

Try all the combinations of getting into the darkside you know of and see which one gives you the right flow for the pinching and pulling of the string.  Oh, and make sure you pull somewhere between 12 and 2 o'clock (visually, not actually).

Chiok
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: ScottMcG on September 16, 2005, 12:14:33 AM
cheers for the tips
im giving up for tonight, theres not enough room here..
im going out tomoro so ill be practicing alot out in the open air...

 Cheers
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: ScottMcG on September 18, 2005, 01:31:44 PM
after 3 days of trying ive almost got it, i can catch the diabolo with the sting, but right now im just finding it hard to grab the right string again? any tips on that part??

 cheers
        Scott
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Tom Derrick on September 18, 2005, 01:59:51 PM
Quote from: ScottMcG
after 3 days of trying ive almost got it, i can catch the diabolo with the sting, but right now im just finding it hard to grab the right string again? any tips on that part??

 cheers
        Scott

May I suggest this thread http://www.diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=64
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: ScottMcG on September 18, 2005, 05:24:47 PM
just pulled of my first few successful mini genocides, but it seems that after the string climba t the end, it string is always twisted round?
any indeas how to make it not happen?
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Spooned on September 18, 2005, 07:24:52 PM
The string is meant to be looped round the diabolo at the end, if youre right handed it will be a LH FW knot. Youll figure it out soon enough  :)
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Chiok on September 18, 2005, 11:46:42 PM
Quote from: Spooned
The string is meant to be looped round the diabolo at the end, if youre right handed it will be a LH FW knot. Youll figure it out soon enough  :)
I think you mean LFBW don't you?  I always left unwrap after a minigenocide because I've swung the right handstick on the outside.

Chiok
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: JGherkin on September 19, 2005, 12:33:45 AM
Could be either, eventually you'll learn to control which one you end up with and go on to create many wonderful combination tricks involving mini-gs  \:D/
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: ScottMcG on September 20, 2005, 10:48:33 PM
finaly got mini genocides properly!!

but i got a weird idea for a strange variation when i messed up once

i did a mini gen but held the string too close to the left stick and when it swung round, it hit the ground just as the diabolo hit it and landed in a grind on the right stick, it was pretty weird and ive not been able to get it done again properly :(
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: JonnyG on September 21, 2005, 11:10:49 PM
Now its my turn to start learning!

I can do lots of basic stuff now, because I've practiced a lot lately, but I've started trying to do minig's (I think...) and I have come close to them, but Im nearly there. I won't give up.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Valium on September 22, 2005, 02:45:46 PM
it seems to me that flexible sticks like the energy sticks are not as easy for mini genocides as alu sticks. With my xtreme its easy but i really have problems with the energy sticks  :roll: am I the only one with this problem?
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Shawn Fumo on October 05, 2005, 04:18:42 AM
Any thoughts on methods of controlling which side the stick wraps around? Is it just a matter of how far out you hold the stick in your weak hand? Or is it more about the actual angle of the swing with the strong hand itself?

I'll experiment some more.. but it happens so fast that it seems hard to control which way it ends up. I have a tendancy to do it the "wrong" way most often where I unwrap and then have to pass both sticks under to untwist..

Shawn
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Chiok on October 05, 2005, 12:50:44 PM
Most of the time, a genocide for a right handed person has the twist in the string with the right stick infront.  Then in a minig, the right handstick is thrown infront of the string (i.e to unwrap the diabolo) and then it will wrap back up in a LHBW.  You could technically have the darkside with the left hand infront so if you released the right stick, you'd have to release it behind (or in between you arms) and would probably end up in a LHBW again.  To end in a RHBW (like normally), you'd have to make the diabolo recapture so the stick swings behind the left string (or in between your arms).  This generally doesn't happen as you would have a stick flying towards your body, which people try to avoid.  I can imagine it be pretty nasty on a full genocide if you wanted to catch it back into a RHBW.

Most people do things infront of them as it keeps it from hitting themselves.  Of course you can break these "rules" when you make up your nuts minig, suicide, genocide combinations which require different wraps etc.  Really anything goes, but I do believe the first tries always end up as LH darkside, end to LHBW.

Chiok
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Mithew on October 05, 2005, 03:15:48 PM
whenever i do a genocide, i end up in a double trapeze.  is that normal???
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Shawn Fumo on October 05, 2005, 05:24:42 PM
Wow.. I'm an idiot. :)   When I fussed with it with a non-spinning diabolo at first, I thought when it wrapped on the outside, you had to unwrap a certain way. Then when I did that and it was twisted, I thought I was doing it wrong. It turns out I was fine and I just had to unwrap the other way from the start. Those few times that I thought I was doing it "right" must have been the stick coming to the inside instead. Wow, it is amazing how goofy you can act when you stuck in a certain frame of mind.. ;) Thanks!

Mithew, well there should be a wrap of string around the axle, but not an actual stopover/trapeze. Though if you are actually getting into a stopover from a genocide, that is pretty cool!

Shawn
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: norbi on October 05, 2005, 05:28:30 PM
You are holding onto the right stick i imagine.
If you are starting on the backside (with a crossed string), then try doing the opposite (recapture with the other hand, swing the other way, hold the other stick) this will feel weird at first, but its 100% worth learning.

If this is correct, ignore the next bit, but...
If, perchance, you are starting on an open string and doing an anti-clockwise (counter-****wise) suicide that turns into a genocide. Then try passing the right stick to the left hand after the diabolo leaves the string.

Have fun.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: J_J777 on October 05, 2005, 07:53:31 PM
Mithew it's fine unless Antonin is messing up his genocide...  Look at how antonin does his genocide, it looks like urs

except he has better style, better technique, and it's cooler :D
Title: I CAN DO MINI-GENOCIDES!!!
Post by: El Chinho on October 08, 2005, 12:41:57 AM
I only read this thing yesterday, and by the end of today I have done about 10-15 of them (mini-genocides), and got 3 in a row earlier on and even managed to put one at the end of a wee combo!
 
also, my little-finger-knuckle on my right-hand is friction burned to **** and actually really hurts just now and i have a bruise on my right forearm the size of a squash ball, but i did learn by far the coolest trick that i know so far ...

signed,

El Chinho
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: -Leo- on October 08, 2005, 10:05:03 AM
Ouch, sounds nasty what kind of sticks did that?
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Mithew on October 09, 2005, 05:06:48 PM
i was wondering, which do you guys think is cooler, a genocide or a mini-genocide, i think genocides look better, but that might be because i'm better at them (when i do a mini-genocide, the past few times i didn't pinch hard enough and the whole thing was really messed)
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: -Leo- on October 10, 2005, 09:08:11 PM
I would say that non-diaboloists prefer normal genocides as they are bigger and more exagerated, however I prefer mini-g's.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Martin_ on July 08, 2006, 07:08:02 AM
Sorry for bringing up an old thread but wish to share some knowledge and hope to get some advice.

Been playing with mini-g's for about a month now and i can still only land one in every 10. Most of the time the reason for the duff attempt is the stick spinning too fast around the axel on the catch so its either painfully hard to catch or just bounces out of your hand. Any remedy for this?

Also since i have started learning them i have only just realised the sheer number of ways to enter it. Although hardest i have found inf suicide to letting the string wrap over your finger and the diabolo 2-3 times then catching the stick its in backside and mini-g. Is the most amazing.

Since i need the practice my motto now is "if there is ever an oppertunity to mini-g sieze it!"

And finally, has anyone ever tried one from a rolling start in backside. I've sucessfully managed it a couple of times but the lack of spin is a pain.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: frank0072 on July 08, 2006, 07:39:09 PM
I have played around with genocides and mini-g's aswell the last month, and they come almost easy right now. The rolling start from the backside to mini-g is not so very hard, because a mini-g doesn't take a lot of speed out of the diabolo, so if you perform it allright you can catch the stick do two chinese whips and continue playing.
There are so many ways to get into a genocide, but the most fun is 'the garotte' I think. It's always an impressive trick, and if you pull of a genocide afterwards it's even more impressive I think.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: -Leo- on July 08, 2006, 11:24:20 PM
Quote from: frank0072
The rolling start from the backside to mini-g is not so very hard, because a mini-g doesn't take a lot of speed out of the diabolo


Mine actualy speeds it up slightly.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Ginger_Tom on July 09, 2006, 12:07:50 AM
If anybody wants me to, i'll put up a tutorial on everything genocide. I've got loads of different entries and exits for different genocides, and different styles of genocide.

If anybody wants it i'll Youtube it tomorrow.
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: bacon on July 09, 2006, 12:41:21 AM
I'll make it easy for everyone -

Yes please Ginger Tom!  I haven't even got around to trying genocides of any type, so any help before hand would be most welcomed!
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Ginger_Tom on July 09, 2006, 12:43:38 AM
Ok, they'll be on in a few hours
 :D
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Ginger_Tom on July 09, 2006, 02:36:59 AM
Well I've ilmed the video, its uploading now.

It's a bit dark, and theres a few drops, but it was filmed at 2am and i'm
fairly wasted.

I'l post a link when its up and running, enjoy!!
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Ginger_Tom on July 09, 2006, 03:15:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIQLgyNook8

Theres the video.

Unedited with a crap tune playing in the background.

Enjoy!
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Spink on July 10, 2006, 08:42:00 PM
Nice 2 handed whip cach to miniG :wink:
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: bacon on July 14, 2006, 12:01:37 AM
*terribly late reply due to blowing up computer*

Thank you!  This should help immensely
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Sir. H Jock (josh) on July 14, 2006, 09:08:42 AM
hi don't know if this will help of not.
but the other week my brother and i where filming some juggling and diabolo  
stuff.. and this clip relates to this thread.

I was mucking around with some differant camera angles etc, and anyways i was standing on a 1m platform doing mini-genocides (even tho i can pull them 80% of the time on flat ground) i found it really easy doing it right at the edge of the platform, meaning the ground under the diabolo was 1m lower than the ground my feet were on.. understand?... thus resulting in having more time to catch the diabolo before it hits the ground...

HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caVzGkdFPM0url) is the video with a slow-mo replay... and here(click Photo to inlarge) is a photo for all you ppl who can't be bothered to watch the vid...

(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5660/minigen0nf.th.jpg) (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=minigen0nf.jpg) take note of the shadow of the diabolo in the photo...

if just learning mini-gen i thought this may help or it may not... give it a go and then give me some feedback...
thanx

Josh
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Chiok on July 14, 2006, 02:33:20 PM
Quote from: Sir. H Jock
I was mucking around with some differant camera angles etc, and anyways i was standing on a 1m platform doing mini-genocides
That's a 1 metre high platform?  How big is your 8 inches?  :wink:

But a good trick for learning.  Especially mini-g's because they are so close to the floor most of the time.  Good for getting the feel before refining the skill.

(your video short cut is wrong, it should be HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caVzGkdFPM0))

Chiok
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Matt_ on July 14, 2006, 06:46:28 PM
1m eh?

i have a ~1.5m wall in my backyard which is way overkill, but i love standing on that and doing infinite suicide to double/triple genocides. you can get away with some weird stuff on there because there is so much room below you. i've also done it on the tops of the playground.

don't get too used to that little safety blanket though, otherwise when you go to flat ground, you'll destroy your sticks ;)
Title: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Martin_ on July 15, 2006, 10:20:31 AM
I'm getting there, good practice the other night was to try every possible mini -g variation and keep doing it till i caught it. The main problem i have is the stick whirling round smacking my hand and bouncing back :P. Tis incredibly fun trick though. Still no idea how the slowicide - mini-g works. I need to yank the strink rediculously hard for it to pop up and it also pops 2-3 feet to my left or right, whatever wrap im doing it with.

For right slowicide mini-g its

Right backwrap -
let go of right string into a slowicide -
as it unwraps tug up on the string about 1/2 way to pull it out of the remaining wrap and in the air-
Let it rewrap itself as the stick makes a circular spin as per normal mini g-
Catch the other stick?

Can anyone point out what im doing wrong here. There is quite a lack of good slowicide-mini-g videos the best example i found is on of bagguetts and diabolos just after erics grind sequence, antonin pulls 3-4 of these off.
But its hard to see and understand the mechanics behind it.

But anyway may your diabolo fly true and fast, just not into your faces *rubs my cut lip thoughtfully*
Title: Mini Genocide
Post by: zwiggelbig on May 15, 2007, 09:41:48 AM
Okay.. I know that me and lots of other people want to lurn Mini Genocide but..
It is a realy hard trick..

So maybe some of you could give some good explanation of mini genocide
and tell others what they do wrong. Or create a good tutorial..

What i am doing is i start with the start of a normal Genocide i trow the diabolo in the air i wrap it from above with my right stick. Then i swing it to the right i release the right stick and i grab the left string..
Well i don't know what i am doing wrong but the diabolo won't even leave the string..
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: Alex! on May 15, 2007, 10:52:56 AM
Try here http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=64.0 (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=64.0)
Please try and use the search button
Remember there is always the ' "Is there a...thread" thread? ' thread ::) which you can use to ask if there is already any information on the trick
http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=2741.0 (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=2741.0)
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: Mathias P. on May 15, 2007, 11:02:49 AM
Or look at Norbi´s 2D Minigenocide Tutorial. There he shows one variation of a 1D Minigenocide too. And you can watch it as often you want.

-PeAcE-

Mathias P.
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: zwiggelbig on May 15, 2007, 11:38:27 AM
I did used the search button couldn't realy find anything..
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: barnesy on May 15, 2007, 11:41:13 AM
I did used the search button couldn't realy find anything..
This thread: http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=2359.0 is always at the top of the tricks section, and is often an easier way to find existing threads.  This thread could probably do with merging to another but I'm in a hurry at the moment.

Dave
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: Dan on May 15, 2007, 01:41:22 PM
When i learnt mini-genocides i entered it from an inverse trapeze where you swing it through an extra time and drop.  Then simply swing the whole thing to the left of you and release the right stick as normal.  At first i found i got to much momentum if i simply chucked it up to my right and went over it like a normal genocide.  Also theres a slackwhip entry which is pretty simple aswell.  Have a look at videos etc with them.
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: Vagabond on May 15, 2007, 04:18:21 PM
I just do normal genocide (backside, suicide etc.) but grab the string as it goes round. I'm not sure if this is the correct way but it looks alright.
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: Ben. on May 15, 2007, 05:35:46 PM
zwiggelbig, what you are doing wrong is what i was doing wrong until someone from the forum showed me (dont know who ???).
instead of putting a right backside on the string, put a left one and then do the genocide to the right and it should undo as you say it is a hard trick and you may find it easier to use different sticks
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: Vagabond on May 15, 2007, 07:30:18 PM
How does that work? I've been doing normal gen's with a right backside for ages and it's fine.
Nevermind I'm going to try this way to :P
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: Ben. on May 15, 2007, 07:37:56 PM
i think its just the technique that you use
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: Vagabond on May 15, 2007, 10:18:34 PM
Would make sense, I've got mates who cant go into it with the right bacjside like me, and some who don't use the backside at all...damn technique.
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: Rick on May 15, 2007, 10:37:01 PM
I recently learnt mini genocides but I haven't yet got them solid and i occasionally have the same problem. i find that i think about pinching the string too early and so try and grab it before the diabolo has left the string, so it wraps up on me. So try throwing it higher and so you have more time to pinch the string.

Also, if it still won't come off after throwing higher: As you swing the diabolo right and let go of the right handstick give it and extra push as you let it go, this should free the diabolo up and make it come off the string.

As for catching: start off catching the diabolo close to where you pinch the string it's much easier and the handstick will come round slower.

I have some in a video I made recently in normal speed and half speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ1pWToHLWU at 1:38

hope that helps
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: Martin_ on May 15, 2007, 10:47:54 PM
Best advice i can give is plenty of practice. Just try pinching, or holding or just putting your hand in the way of the string untill you can get it to recapture then its a case of grabbing the stick again. This trick along with my continued struggle with 2d high and fans probably took the longest to get to a point where now i can nail it most of the time.

Experiment with lots of ways to get into a backside then do a mini g from each method. I remember making myself keep doing a method untill i could do the mini g perfectly then another darkside method. Even rolling start darkside straight into a mini g <3 those ones.
Its a great trick unfortunatly it seems to be lost on non diaboloing crowds which cry for another high throw.

Summary of above = practice :P
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: zwiggelbig on May 16, 2007, 09:53:13 AM
Okay this is how i do it;
I firstly do a right or left backwrap you know the way you start a normal genocide.
So when i got it wrapped that way and i would do a normal genocide i swing the diabolo to the right then i release the right stick. Then i try to grab the left string. But what happens is that the diabolo won't even fly in the air. I think i am doing lots of things wrong but i don't know what because i don't understand Mini Gen en nobody around here can lurn me..

So could someone tell me what i am doing wrong? I could make a movie also..
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: David - SAS1 on May 16, 2007, 10:28:43 AM
If you post a video then we can look at it and see if there what is wrong
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: zwiggelbig on May 18, 2007, 04:23:27 PM
I finaly found out how to do a mini Genocide and IL post a tutorial of my way.

First just start on a open string making some speed.
Then you trow the diabolo in the air just on shoulder hight Then you wrap it from above with your left stick,
thats a left backwrap.

Okay now you got to the point where its in a left backwrap.
What i do is i aim the right stick to to ground then i swing the diabolo smoothly to the right
I let go of my right stick and i try to trow the diabolo a little bit on shoulder/head hight in the air.
Now the diabolo is hanging in the air the stick would make a big circle like a normal genocide.[/color]
But you want to do a mini gen, well what you gotta do is to half the string you do this by putting your right hand on the string. Now the string will make a half circle and if you had it all straight the string will catch the diabolo from below.

You can tryout whatever you like to grab the string you can pull it up you can give it a little more speed or just hold it.

If it seems to happen that you have to hold the stick to high then your string is to long. Or if you catch it all the time but by the time you catched it the diabolo already hit the ground along with the stick.
This could be the problem of being to slow, trowing the diabolo to low. Or you're string is to long!
If you want to find out if your string is to low then go stand on something thats a little bit high from the ground. Now do a mini gen you would notice difference.

I hope i gave a good tutorial..

If you have any questions just ask it.. i will try to make a video tutorial once i can do it better.
Gl! ;)
Title: Re: Mini Genocide
Post by: Mathias P. on May 29, 2007, 10:57:03 AM
...instead of putting a right backside on the string, put a left one and then do the genocide to the right ...

By the way that trick works for both sides as well. But i think the " catching the diabolo from above" method is really the easiest. Just practice often, you´ll get it.

PeAcE

Mathias P.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Rick on May 29, 2007, 01:02:35 PM
Whats the variation of the mini genocide where you have the diabolo on a wrap then you pull on the string and the diabolo becomes un wrapped and comes off the string then the string wraps around the diabolo like a normal mini genocide. And how do you do it?
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Unforgiven on May 29, 2007, 07:15:28 PM
Whats the variation of the mini genocide where you have the diabolo on a wrap then you pull on the string and the diabolo becomes un wrapped and comes off the string then the string wraps around the diabolo like a normal mini genocide. And how do you do it?

I believe that would be a Continuous Mini-Genocide. Here is a good tutorial for it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXfb7Pk3B1U

I'm trying to get those, but they are a bit harder than the original ones, 'cause you have to get a good timing for it.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: n3mo on June 22, 2007, 03:27:57 PM
i can do mini-gens pretty well, but i keep coming across one problem - as the stick swings around the diabolo for the wrap, it often hits my hand and reverses direction (i.e. the diabolo drops and bounces away, while i nurse bruised knuckles). is that pretty much just improper hand position or something?
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Alex! on June 22, 2007, 07:46:28 PM
Thats just to do with the timing of when you move your hand away from the string. I had this problem when I first learnt them and it still happens occasionally. With practice and time that will eventually go.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: n3mo on June 22, 2007, 10:36:25 PM
alrighty. thanks =]
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Dan on June 23, 2007, 01:22:45 AM
Or you could do what i did and move your hand closer to the diabolo so that you get the string wrapped around and then you can reverse it under control (can produce some nice combinations).  Now i bring my hand back towards my body slightly so that there is no/very little chance of the stick hitting my hand.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: paul.w92 on July 02, 2007, 06:04:27 PM
sorry but in the very frist post in this thread sean_ refers to an overcide i have never heard of this trick could some1 plz show me a video or tell me where there is a thread of this trick
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Eric Moffett on July 02, 2007, 07:17:43 PM
I was working on mini-genocides today, and I couldn't figure out why I couldn't let go of the left stick and unwrap a right backwrap, until I saw that I was still throwing the left stick as if I had a left backwrap on it so it would always go around the wrong way. So I threw the stick the other way and bam, the stick swung around the diabolo flew off the diabolo, but missed the diabolo. It was still a great achievement for me! So I ended that practice on that good note.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: seán_ on July 03, 2007, 01:04:26 AM
sorry but in the very frist post in this thread sean_ refers to an overcide i have never heard of this trick could some1 plz show me a video or tell me where there is a thread of this trick

 Any genocide where the diabolo is caught from above rather than below, so for a full overcide release later so the diabolo travels across the body and the string recaptures from above.
see 1.46 for a mini overcide and 2.13 for a string bounce mini overcide both by Spink (or 6.04 and 5.34 on the reverse count)
[youtube=425,350]xyTnFQd9W_A
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: paul.w92 on July 04, 2007, 06:16:07 PM
ok thanks sean_ i will have to give it a try
Title: mini genocides
Post by: spinnin pig on January 20, 2008, 10:52:02 AM
ok i just learnt how to do genocide  ;D
but i heard that mini genocides could have more done with them
i saw norbi's video and found a tutorial by sean (cant remember which one) :D but i cant seem to understand the pinch the string bit
if anyone could help me make sense of it please post
cheers
pig
Title: mini genocides
Post by: mellowscholar on January 20, 2008, 12:06:19 PM
I'm sure you can find something on this rather than making a new topic.
But here's what I do anyway:
Follow the method for a normal right genocide up until where you let go of the right stick, then immediately grab the string with your right hand as it comes up, the bit between your hand and the right stick will whirl around in a smaller circle than with a genocide and then it's just practice to get it right.
Title: mini genocides
Post by: spinnin pig on January 20, 2008, 12:24:15 PM
ah thanks and sorry for making a new topic but i couldnt work it out from the video's i saw
also i think this may be a bug but this topic seems to have merged with the slowcide -> mini genocide thread
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Duncan on January 20, 2008, 12:32:41 PM
There, now I've picked the right thread to merge this with.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: spinnin pig on January 20, 2008, 12:53:55 PM
oh right a mod did it :D
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Green on June 15, 2008, 10:47:25 AM
Thanks Seán_'s great explanation about mini genocide, now I can do mini genocide :)
 but my mini genocide seems strange, after i let my right hand stick slip from my grip, and the string start to encircle the axle of the diabolo, the problem is sometimes the string left backwrap the diabolo, and sometiems the string right backwrap the diabolo, I don't know which one is correct.
I've read Chiok's great explanation about this problem:http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=64.45
but i am still not quite understand it, i don't know the reason why sometimes i left backwrap the diabolo and sometimes i right backwrap the diabolo.
Could anyone please help me?(i don't know whether it's too late to post it or not)

Thank you!
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: karatepekka on June 15, 2008, 12:22:41 PM
Quote
When doing a mini-geno you should bring your left hand closer to your body after the release and when the string hits the diabolo immediately let go of the string with your right hand.

This way the part of the string between the diabolo and the left stick should be angled towards your body and the flying stick should pass it from the front side always creating a frontwrap.

At least thats how I do it and it works...
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Green on June 15, 2008, 01:19:39 PM
karatepekka, thank you!

so it's frontwrap? but what happend when it comes to right hand backwrap? ???
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: karatepekka on June 15, 2008, 07:06:41 PM
Basically the right stick just flys between the left part of the the string and your body...

When creating a frontwrap it flys from the front of the string...

It doesn't matter which wrap it is if your only doing normal mini-g's but if you want to do continuous mini-g's you need to know which wrap is around the axle, because you don't have the time to look at it.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Green on June 16, 2008, 06:57:21 AM
Thanks a lot, karatepekka. :D
Can i ask one more question? is there a way that I can control the kind of wrap--I mean when I want the mini genocide to end with the right backwrap and I can do it everytime. because the stick just fly so fast, i can't even see which way the stick will fly.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: karatepekka on June 16, 2008, 08:54:47 AM
You can always get a frontwrap by doing as I told in my first post, but for backwrap I don't know I haven't really tried, but it should work if you keep your left hand further away from your body than your diabolo is. That way the stick should fly under your left arm rather than from the front of it, creating a backwrap.

I don't know if it works though I haven't tried... But it SHOULD
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Green on June 16, 2008, 12:02:32 PM
Thank you, karatepekka :)

I'll try it when the city i live is not raining, my room is too small to do this trick. :(

Thank you very much, karatepekka.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: zwiggelbig on June 20, 2008, 05:19:29 PM
Basically the right stick just flys between the left part of the the string and your body...

When creating a frontwrap it flys from the front of the string...

It doesn't matter which wrap it is if your only doing normal mini-g's but if you want to do continuous mini-g's you need to know which wrap is around the axle, because you don't have the time to look at it.

But there is a diffrent about the release of a normal mini gen and the continuous mini gen. You can't do continuous mini g's from a normal mini gen can you?

Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: karatepekka on June 21, 2008, 09:38:41 AM
Yes you can!! watch the video "short and long" or my video diabolowoods (the second last trick)...
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: azndiablo on January 27, 2009, 05:12:15 PM
i know i'm kinda late, but i'm just wondering if anybody could help me with catching the stick after attempting a mini-genocide?  :-| i looked through this thread already but i couldnt seem to find any straightforward tips or practicing methods. currently, i'm just attempting mini-g's again and again and trying to get the "feel" for it but if anybody has any specific tips or suggestions as to what i might be doing wrong, that'd be great. thanks in advanced!

and thx sean for helping me post this in the right place!  :-D
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: looby on January 27, 2009, 10:49:51 PM
When the swinging stick re-wraps the diabolo, it will wrap slower or faster depending on how far up the string the diabolo is when the wrap occurs.

If you catch the diabolo at the last possible moment (i.e. at the tip of the swinging stick, the re-wrap will occur so fast you'll struggle to make a clean catch.  If the diabolo re-wraps slightly earlier, the stick has a longer circle to make when re-wrapping, therefore slowing the whole motion down.

For a good example of what I'm trying to explain watch the beginning of Crackers' video.  Notice how in the first combo he re-wraps the diabolo at a certain point everytime, slowing the motion down enough so he can make a stick swap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0xqsEfdR5g&eurl=http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=5766.0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0xqsEfdR5g&eurl=http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=5766.0)

All the best with it
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: azndiablo on January 28, 2009, 12:02:00 AM
thx for the great advice looby! also, does using a specific stick type make a difference (i use carbon but i've read in this thread that aluminum is much better, any verifications?) other than that, i guess practice is what's gonna be best for me.  :P
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Sean on January 28, 2009, 12:17:10 AM
Heavier sticks (aluminum) will tend to swing around a bit slower, but there's no reason why you can't get used to either. The bigger problem is switching back and forth - you get used to one and then the other feels strange.

Some of the best stick release type diaboloists use carbons and some use aluminum. So don't blame the sticks and get back to practicing! ;)
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Terminator on February 21, 2009, 12:47:12 AM
When i do  my genocides,  I release my stick, but the diabolo falls too quickly.  What should I do to make it go higher
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Wannes on February 21, 2009, 09:39:12 AM
When i do  my genocides,  I release my stick, but the diabolo falls too quickly.  What should I do to make it go higher

You should release your stick later, that will make the diabolo fly higher.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Chiok on February 21, 2009, 11:57:53 AM
More than releasing the stick later, when you release the stick, just *before* the diabolo becomes completely unwrapped and will just fall on the floor, pull hard on the other stick which will cause the diabolo to pop up and cause the free stick to swing around faster for recapture.  Timing the pop and the strength of the pop will give you controllable genocide releases.

Chiok
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Terminator on February 21, 2009, 05:29:36 PM
I've actually gotten it once. thanks.  But im just not consistent on the catching.  What can i do to help catch it.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: mike. on February 21, 2009, 06:30:34 PM
really, it just takes practice. but you should let go of the string when it makes contact then focus on the stick.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Chiok on February 22, 2009, 11:51:37 AM
If everything remains in the wall plane (the stricks, string and diabolo are all in line), then the catch should come naturally as the free stick swings underneath and back up to contact under the diabolo. 

After the release, if you turn to face the diabolo a bit and point your held stick at the diabolo axle, the string should follow where you point the stick and hit the diabolo.  So you're holding the stick across your body instead of out from your body.  If you swing the stick at a funny angle, the recapture is going to be much more difficult so focus on getting a nice vertical swing.

Chiok
Title: Mini Genocide help
Post by: Darknesskid on March 08, 2009, 11:25:28 PM
when i relase my right handstick the diabolo always seems to release away from me like towards my front and i will miss the rebounding sting. any ideas/suggestions?
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: seán_ on March 08, 2009, 11:36:53 PM
if the swing is true (and it most likely is unless you are feeling forward/backwards force) then it might be the case that your hands are moving the string out of the way after the release.

In a minigen there shouldn't be that much room/time for mistakes. Theres plenty of advice in this thread (some just a bit above your post might help) but my tips for minigens are
-It's better to have your right hand over your left because grabbing the string is easier.
-Like all suicides having the sticks pointing in line with the string will give more stable releases.
-release so the diabolo slightly comes to the left or straight up is preferable to the diabolo going to the right.
-Don't pull your right hand towards your body after the release.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Terminator on March 24, 2009, 09:32:11 PM
When I do my MINI genocide.  I pinch the string and i goes in a circle but the string does not hit the axle.  Only the stick hits the axle and then the diabolo flys away.  HELP
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: mike. on March 25, 2009, 01:30:46 AM
let go earlier/pinch a little it higher up, its all practice really
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: No Doutt on August 30, 2009, 03:14:12 PM
Every time I do a mini gen, or a regular genocide, after I catch the diabolo on the string, I can't catch the stick. :( The stick wraps around the diabolo REALLY fast! HELP!
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Funty on August 31, 2009, 08:52:10 AM
catch it after it wraps, you'll have more time
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: No Doutt on August 31, 2009, 07:50:19 PM
That's exactly what i do. I try to catch the stick after it wraps. But it comes around too fast. Should I try to catch the diabolo higher up the string so it dosen't come around so fast?
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: NiekG on September 01, 2009, 01:02:06 AM
That's probably a good idea. Maybe you should try to grab the string somewhat further, so that you have a bit more string to use for the mini genocide.

Does anyone have a tip for an easy 2d mini geno btw? I've seen a few, but I'd like to know which one is the best to start practicing. Thanks
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: mykill on September 01, 2009, 03:39:08 AM
That's probably a good idea. Maybe you should try to grab the string somewhat further, so that you have a bit more string to use for the mini genocide.

Does anyone have a tip for an easy 2d mini geno btw? I've seen a few, but I'd like to know which one is the best to start practicing. Thanks

there is a tutorial by Norbi out there.

That's exactly what i do. I try to catch the stick after it wraps. But it comes around too fast. Should I try to catch the diabolo higher up the string so it dosen't come around so fast?

the more string between the stick and the diab the slower it will come around.
also depending on which way the genocide is done its either gonna go real fast and impossible to catch. or almost none.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Mr Diab on September 22, 2009, 09:44:17 PM
No, I'm not left handed, I'm telling this because of Norbi's video, it seems he pinches with the right hand...
not to sound clules but where can i find norbi's video
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: 4leek24 on October 21, 2009, 01:07:42 AM
when i do mini-g i use magic knot to enter, but i have i pretty big problem(that is almost gone) i consistantly hit my finger so hard that ive broken it bfore, and im trying to figure out how not to. i can avoid hitting my hands more often now, but i still do sometimes.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: NiekG on October 21, 2009, 08:12:46 AM
when i do mini-g i use magic knot to enter, but i have i pretty big problem(that is almost gone) i consistantly hit my finger so hard that ive broken it bfore, and im trying to figure out how not to. i can avoid hitting my hands more often now, but i still do sometimes.
You'll have to be a bit more specific as in where in the trick does the stick hit your finger? After you've caught the diabolo (seems most likely to me)? The solution could be the same as I already posted a few posts back. Reserve a bit more string for the mini-g The longer the string, the less speed the stick has when you try to catch it.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: 4leek24 on October 24, 2009, 06:09:09 AM
You'll have to be a bit more specific as in where in the trick does the stick hit your finger? After you've caught the diabolo (seems most likely to me)? The solution could be the same as I already posted a few posts back. Reserve a bit more string for the mini-g The longer the string, the less speed the stick has when you try to catch it.
usually its after i catch it, but if i use more string, im having trouble getting it around fast enough, but i guess i need to practice, thanks for your tips!
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Rusty on January 03, 2010, 12:48:32 PM
I am trying to learn the infinite mini-genocides, but I struggle with the normal genocide when I cannot use the whole string and diabolos movement as when I only do one. I want to wrap the diabolo and then release the stick so it rotates around the diabolo and it is released from the string and then catch it again. The problem is that the diabolo is usually only moving up and down when I see this kind of variations in videos and then you pull the string upwards just when the diabolo is falling off the string to get an upward movement on the diabolo for more time. So when I pull the string upwards the diabolo ends up going a bit upwards, but mostly to the side.

A bit long question, but how can I prevent the diabolo from going to the side and make it only go upwards.

Anders
Norway
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Icebox on January 06, 2010, 08:49:30 PM
I have a question about minigenocide variations:

What is the variation called when you re-wrap the diabolo after it releases from the string? I thought it was rewrapped minigenocides, but I wasn't sure
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Sean on January 06, 2010, 09:58:04 PM
Anders! Good to see you posting again!

In answer to your up vs. sideways question: all you have to work with is timing and the direction of the pull. The direction is relatively straight up usually, so you are left with just the timing. Not knowing which way the diabolo is going to the side, I'd say play with starting the pull earlier and later, shorter and longer. You can throw the diabolo deliberately to the side. Mostly it just seems like intuition, but I believe I also pull a bit more in the direction I want the diabolo to go.

benc, most genocides end in a wrap, but not all start from a wrap. I think typically "wrapped minigenocide" refers to a minigenocide that starts from a wrap as opposed to an open string.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Icebox on January 06, 2010, 11:43:40 PM
my question is more about what's being done at 1.22 in the "moments" video that was just posted
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Hathaway on January 06, 2010, 11:46:16 PM
[Diabolo Tutorial] Slowcide mini-genocides (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC9x6grrdD4#)
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Rossta on September 07, 2010, 04:19:58 PM
Sorry for the bump but I am struggling with my continuous MiniG's.  I can do a MiniG abou 95% of the time when going from a darkside entrance.  This is because there is no wrap to come of the diabolo before whiping the string around for the catch.  When I am trying continuos MiniG's I am struggling with my accuracy on the unrwap phase and so most of the time when I attempt it the stick ends up going the wrong side of the string and heance not unwrapping (leaving me to sort out an anoying set of wraps before trying again)  I have watched Tim Elis's video on the subject and played with trying to throw the stick outwards and inwards with the same wrap yet still only find a release happening about 20% of the time.

My question is this:

How do I make sure that the stick passes the string on the correct side after it has been released?

Hopefully someone can help me sort out this issue as this trick has become my nemisis and must be conquered  8)
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: finesse on September 07, 2010, 04:21:06 PM
First of all: can you do wrapped mini-g`s?
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: luabduch on September 07, 2010, 04:28:45 PM
Hey Rossta.
I'll try to describe it to you but I'm not sure I can really help you through the internet.

well, when you have a right wrap is really easier, cause the stick naturally pass by the front side. Train slowcides and you will understand what I mean.
but when you have left wraps you can help the stick to pass through the right side of the string pushing it forwards...
kind like it. I think Tim Ellis explained really better than me.

At least, you can take a look at my continuous minigs video, don't think it will really help but, who knows?

199 continuous wrapped mini-genocides with 1 diabolo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9t_zSA9ANY#)

- sorry for possible mistakes, I'm still learning english! =D

Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Rossta on September 07, 2010, 04:51:08 PM
@ Finesse - not really tried, I guess that is where I need to start then.  What is the best way to learn a wrapped MiniG?

@ luabduch - thanks that explanation helped.  The video was cool to see that many performed but your were right I am still no closer to cracking it after watching that.  I must learn a wrapped MiniG First and then I'll try again with continuous.

Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: finesse on September 07, 2010, 07:05:48 PM
If you are going to learn wrapped, i would recommend doing a left wrapped, because this would be the easiest for a righter ( at least for me).
It is not that different than i mining, you just don't have to swing it, and you just have to take the upward pull a bit later.
This explanation isn't the best, and since i learned it by myself, i would recommend you just experimenting with it.
Good luck
Title: Re: Genocides - Mini Genocides
Post by: Rossta on September 08, 2010, 02:57:31 PM
Ok so I think I have got it now.

The problem I was having was that I was using the wrong wrap to sart with and so when releasing the stick I had to really force the angle if I was to have any chance of success.  By changing the wrap I am now achieving about a 90% success with getting it to un-wrap and leave the string.  I still need to practice as I cannot get the catch every time but I am getting more and more used to it as I keep on doing it.  If I do get the catch I can also release on the other side, thereby making the first steps towards continuous.  I have managed 5 in a row without missing but that was probably just a fluke.

To clarify for anyone else:-  I start by doing a Right Back Wrap and then hold the Right stick directly above the diab.  Then let go of the Left stick, grab the string above the diab and pull to release the swinging stick off the top of the diab.  Then follow that motion of the stick round with your hand so that it completes an orbit coming back underneath the diab, letting go of the string and catching the stick after it has wrapped around once.

I think this is right, at least it is what I am doing (or should I say what my brain tells me I am doing).  Corrections or clarification by anyone would be appreciated.

Thanks for your help.
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