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Diabolo.ca Forums => Tricks => Topic started by: Marko on February 18, 2010, 08:41:43 PM

Title: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Marko on February 18, 2010, 08:41:43 PM
Okay so here's the deal. When some body calls diabolo slacks and eiffels "yo-yo tricks" they are horribly wrong. For instance try asking any yoyoer to do J-whip (underwhip). He won't know what you are talking about.  Yo-yo tricks and diabolo tricks are totally different thing. And you cannot do yo-yo tricks with diabolo like they are meant to do (talking about 1A style here).

The problem with slacks are that people aren't using their fingers enough. In 1a yoyo tricks people use their fingers a lot. In diabolo people limit them selves to only to sticks which could be compared to using only middle fingers in yoyoing. I've seen "double or nothing" done in http://www.diabolotricks.com/Yoyo.htm (http://www.diabolotricks.com/Yoyo.htm) before. But that really doesn't work at all like double or nothing should work. You can get much more close to the real double or nothing. What helps usually is to think that the stick is our middle finger now you have at least forefinger and thumb free for the tricks.

But to take a trick from yo-yo to diabolo you need to understand some yo-yoing principles first. I have figured out some easy ones for you but please do discover more by yourself. And try those tricks out. If any questions on this i will try to answer. I have a hunch that Nick or Langerz have tried these out before so all the respect for them.

Here's a little tutorial on it:
Yoyo tricks with diabolo - tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNJWUk2eV1U#)

Alternative one for Vimeo users:
Yoyo tricks with diabolo - tutorial (http://www.vimeo.com/9558162)
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Indy on February 18, 2010, 09:17:36 PM
First of all ''Who's making these rules man?' -Grind

I really like your tutorial 8)
The first spitscreen clip was 2nd watch worthy, because my eyes coudn't follow the two toys seperately ;)
I'm really into the 'yoyo'coverted tricks.
My double-or-nothing is simular to yours, but I just let the diabolo go around left stick instead of my indexfinger.
I think it's very good that you clarified that it's important to use your fingers with these tricks!
This way you get a much more authentic yoyo trick.

Thanks for the tutorial.
From now on I will use my finger more! ;)
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: kamikace on February 18, 2010, 09:35:31 PM
Man, you just come here from time to time and nail it.
Always one of my inspirations!
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Jax on February 18, 2010, 10:02:53 PM
Thanks man, perfectly done, just enough to get me going....
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Jasper on February 19, 2010, 07:55:27 AM
tnx for the video, the double or nothing I already now but the other one...
 Never heard about it (A)
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Marko on February 19, 2010, 07:58:22 AM
My double-or-nothing is simular to yours, but I just let the diabolo go around left stick instead of my indexfinger.
Yeah, using the end of stick as index finger is also good way to get it working.

Actually if someone wants to be really strict with the yoyotricks involved here they are:
Double or nothing is actually expanded to "the Matrix", http://yoyoexpert.com/learn/033-advanced-matrix.html (http://yoyoexpert.com/learn/033-advanced-matrix.html)
Houdini drop has the beginning of "Kamikaze" (1part), http://yoyoexpert.com/learn/080-expert-kamikaze.html (http://yoyoexpert.com/learn/080-expert-kamikaze.html)
Hook is just the hook, http://yoyoexpert.com/learn/078-expert-hook.html (http://yoyoexpert.com/learn/078-expert-hook.html)

Thank you for encouraging comments.
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Wis on February 19, 2010, 11:13:08 AM
Wow, amazing tutorial. The idea is great. And also the editing. I'm going to try them now. I was already playing around with slacks and similar stuff.
These "home-shoes" (don't know the word) are a Classic. I use the same ones.

"Marko out"? I was laughing a lot because i've only heard this on Californication
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Jasper on February 19, 2010, 01:48:10 PM
huh, your double or nothing looks very different from the one I learned :P
and is it right if i do double or nothing over my fingers that when you drop your rope you have to do a sun back to unwrap (if u understand what i mean)
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: LaNgErZ on February 19, 2010, 02:42:09 PM
slippers = win

this method means other yoyo stuff would work alot better and alot closer to the original trick itself like kwijibo and reverse kwijibo

lz
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: martijn on February 19, 2010, 03:11:39 PM
Woot! Awesome stuff Marko :)
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: bourgeois.jason on February 19, 2010, 03:38:26 PM
Great stuff, Marko!  As a former yo-yoer, I agree that you cannot get any trick exactly like yo-yo trick, since the yo-yo is actually attached to the string and only one end of the string is attached to a finger.  Off string yo-yo tricks can be more accurately mimicked, since the yo-yo is not actually attached to the string; however one end of the string is still attached to a finger and the other end of the string is just loose.  The only way to get a diabolo trick and yo-yo trick to be exactly the same would be to have a yo-yo string with a weight (dice or something similar) on each end (which would be almost impossible to get any spin on a bearing yo-yo) or to have the diabolo string attached to your finger, etc.  In other words, the string/finger/spinning prop/etc. would have to have the exact same configuration in order to have the exact same trick.

I'm not sure why I said all that.  I'm sure somebody will try to argue that a "sun" or "trapeze" would be the same on both props.  If so, that's fine.  My point is that unless the configuration is the exact same, the trick will be slightly different.

There's not really a point to what I'm saying.  I would just like to say that this is a great tutorial and I look forward to more of the same. :)

-Jason
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: samuli on February 19, 2010, 05:23:21 PM
Well if we go in direction of 4A then there's so much that diabolo can give to yoyo. (It's quite hard to find yoyos that work well for this but I got few from LZ)

This 1A way is again different and as I see it yoyo can give more to diabolo in a terms of adaption than vice versa.

Best thing in Marko's video is that it just shows two most basic yoyo mounts so it's just a beginning. I bet everybody remember mach 5 from nineties, so yoyo adaptions have been here for a long time.
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Marko on February 22, 2010, 10:33:31 AM
Langerz, the slippers are bad ass.

Jasper, i would say try to get it work like it works on the video. Two trapezes are much more easier to deal with. Trapeze is a better mount to work in combos than sun there are many directions you can take it.

Yeah Jason i agree. That's what i meant with the text in midway of the video. But the kids don't have that long attention span to read any longer text so i put it down short. The closest thing with diabolo is 4A (like Samuli pointed out). But when you think about it, there's no reason you would want to do exact same tricks diabolo. These are two different sports and both have their distinct characteristics. More important is to learn and develop both disciplines and see which material can you adopt and make work somehow.

I'm not saying sun or trapeze would be exactly the same with diabolo and 1A but it's great to find some similarities from the mounts and how they work. Also i hear quite often people talking about yo-yo tricks with diabolo when most of them clearly aren't or it's really hard to find the corresponding trick.

Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Jasper on February 22, 2010, 12:30:59 PM
Marko, what are slippers and : I already started learning as in the video but it looks easier than it is :|
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Marijn on February 22, 2010, 03:37:50 PM
Very inspiring Marko :)
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: bombmistro on February 22, 2010, 11:54:10 PM
the easiest way to do a Houdini mount is the slack version even though the other way looks cooler all you have to do is do a c-whip while the diabolo is in a trapeze. also the yoyo version of an j-whip (or underwhip) is known as a wrist whip i am finding more and more that diabolo is alot like 5A at least for the integral stuff
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Jem on February 23, 2010, 02:12:48 PM
Thanks Marko.

I find this intersting because I adopt a similar style of diabolo yet have no knowledge of modern yo-yo tricks.

If I took up yo-yo it's like I'd be transferring my style of diabolo to the yo-yo rather than vice versa.
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Mr.D on February 23, 2010, 09:31:55 PM
Great inspiration. I, myself, has NO experience with yoyo, but you've pushed me into some exploring here :)
Just a tiny result so far to show that your inspiration is leading to something (nvm if its been done before...). Something like a Double or Nothing variation I guess...:

String-thing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAdEsSxl0Sw#)

And the music fits like a charm! I hereby claim all rights for using it in a video :D
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: William on February 23, 2010, 09:35:37 PM
Why is nobody walking the dog..?
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Marko on February 24, 2010, 11:32:20 AM
@William, Because Pierre Marchand has all the rights for that trick.
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Jannis on February 24, 2010, 11:37:52 AM
Why is nobody walking the dog..?

what do you mean? can you give me an example?
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: 4leek24 on February 24, 2010, 10:54:39 PM
Why is nobody walking the dog..?
cuz its almost useless? it just slows the diabolo down. if youre talkin about yoyo, its cuz it damages the yoyo, causes dings, and ruins it.
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Ben. on February 24, 2010, 11:08:31 PM
How can you not see that it was a joke?
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Toddyupa on February 25, 2010, 08:16:06 AM
Not sure ben :-D
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: imayoyo on March 21, 2010, 02:50:44 PM
Ummm... I yoyo, and diaboloing is nothing like yoyoing. period. the tricks are just too complex in yoyoing and when you are using a diabolo (which has a MUCH bigger diameter) it is just too hard to re-create any decent yoyo tricks. But with diabolo, well there are suicides and stuff like that that are completely different then yoyo's. I think diaboloers should use the uniqueness of the sport/hobby and NOT try to copy yoyoers in every aspect. go on their own course.
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Tipper on March 21, 2010, 09:45:28 PM
Troll Incoming in 3... 2... 1..
 roooar!

To be honest, I don't have the slightest perception of Why the **** you are saying that? Look at markos videos and telle me that yoyo and Diabolo are 2 completely different things? Many aspects of diabolo and yoyo are similar to each other. Care to explain Why you think Diaboloists are "copying" yoyo? Never thought that Maybe some yoyo-stuff could be inspired of Diabolo? Do you honestly know the slightest thing about Diabolo at all? Why the hell Cant a category of juggling get Inspired from other categorys? Never heard of a 3d box? Never heard of 1d slack? I honestly think you should fudge off and stop being so negative about people getting Ideas from other things. What are your problem about transfering a concept to another prop? I would gladly like to hear your answers cus reading that pissed me off

-Tipper
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: imayoyo on March 22, 2010, 12:08:54 AM
I'm not saying that it's BAD. I'm just saying that I would PREFER that diaboloists did more things and really let the uniqueness of their sport/hobby stand out :)
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: Marko on March 22, 2010, 08:02:56 AM
Haha. I get you point, imayoyo. But I disagree with you.

I don't see any problem with there being two disciplines that learn from each other. Like I've done both skateboarding and snowboarding. Clearly two totally different things but there are many tricks that have crossed over, and I have no problem against it. I feel that it would be narrow minded to not try those things out in different disciplines since thats how these things develop into much bigger. Diabolo and yo-yo are clearly two different thing but they have much in common. And as such the tricks won't never be the same. It doesn't make diabolo less unique if you have a concept or two used previously in yo-yoing. If anything it makes diabolo even better as skill toy if you can actually use it to do some yo-yo stuff.

Currently I have actually hard time watching 4A yoyoing since if the player isn't really good it looks too much like bad diaboloing. I think we should forget the 4A and just start doing 9A. So 4A with a counter weight. And make those suicides happen in yo-yo like they should.  But this is completely different discussion.

imayoyo, I know you have the skills in yo-yo why just not try and get inspired of them with diabolo? Heck I can even hit wrist mounts with a diabolo. It's bigger but you will have that freaking 30centimeter extension to your string finger in form of the stick and possibility to go straight to go for 5A tricks with other stick. :D
Lastly I still play both because I enjoy it. Having fun while playing is what matters the most. Second most important thing for me is not to limit my creativity much, if I get and an idea I will go for it. I have no need to defend yo-yoing as a culture since diabolo won't ever replace it. I will happily be a citizen of these to worlds. Everybody is still entitled to their opinions, so if you feel that having yoyo tricks on diabolo is bad thing you should continue striving diabolo more towards the things you want.

Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: gravity on March 22, 2010, 12:49:39 PM
yo people chill fore a min i just started yo yo cause my imagination is getting a bit thin lately on 1d slacks i learnt all the singal slacks over an under both cups an then learnt it all again with the other hand mixed it up for months cause i love lz tec style its sick for bringing in new young kids into the seen (that's what i found eny way) but the way it looks to none jugglers is string loops are flowting everywhere intense knots appear an disappear an its the same as yoyo if ya good. its so tec 4 the normal person to understand. so what i have found is that most people say when they see diabolo an slacking combos they say its like yoyo witch is no doubt is annoying but i have found so Meany tricks on hear that have come from yoyo so i went an got myself one so i could get Betta understanding of new slack Trix's double or nuffing, trap door, string suicides, string pushis. so i fink all in all the style is so similar i personally think yoyo an diabolo slacking go hand in hand but its jus what i think so hit us back. peace people.

an just a heads up to lz and oddballs I'll b bk over from eastbourne nx week for more string an some new Trix catch ya soon.
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: bourgeois.jason on March 22, 2010, 03:09:04 PM
Gravity,

Thanks for your input.

However, I have one request.  As new people join the forum, they may not realize that we have many users who have learned English as a second language and even some who use translation software to read our posts.  We should all set a goal of using proper English to the best of our abilities, in order to make the forum accessable to the maximum number of people.  My request is that you abide by this standard.

Thank you for your understanding.

-Jason
Title: Re: Yo-yo tricks with diabolo
Post by: gravity on March 23, 2010, 12:34:28 PM
OK no worries I'll try just i really suck at spelling an grammar but anyway peace.  :)
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