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Diabolo.ca Forums => Tricks => Topic started by: Sean on November 08, 2004, 02:47:42 AM

Title: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on November 08, 2004, 02:47:42 AM
Seán (yes, the other Sean), had the great idea of starting a sticky where people can post their experiences in regards to learning how to start and correct two diabolos.

This is a very common question on juggling forums. Hopefully we can combine many people's advice over time into this one thread for people who are beginning to learn 2 diabolos.

As this topic will inevitably come up many times in the main forum we'll try and move the advice from those threads into this sticky and perhaps summerize the main themes at the top.

For now, it would be great if some of you guys could contribute what you would tell someone who wanted to learn how to start and correct two diabolos. Suggestions for topics you could include:

-What method you found easiest to learn (a right or left handed throw-in, a wrap start, or something else):
-How you first learned to correct.
-How to keep the shuffle going.
-How long it took you to learn to start.
-How long it took you to learn to correct.
-Advice you were given that helped you.
-Any other advice you would give.

Eventually we'll combine this advice and turn it into a "sticky" for the top of the forum.

Cheers,
Sean

Edit: see also http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=34 (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=34)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on November 08, 2004, 05:09:17 AM
Right, since this was my fault I might as well get the ball rolling.

Matt from Leeds (doing two since the early days in the UK) gave me the most help. Help also came in the form of Dave Barnes site www.2diabolo.net

I had a few goes with one diabolo being passed in and just letting the shuffle go around a few times. definately a good step. The person should pass in from your left (assuming right handed).

I then found myself having to practice myself (the other person got bored :-) ). to do this I had to learn to throw in. I first tried the 'normal'method (right handed about head height throw) but had a few problems keeping the throw in line (you can't reach for the catch or you'll move everything out of line). The right handed throw in seems to be most peoples choice although I'm seeing more and more people starting with a wrap start.

Suffering with this throw I developed my own throw in technique:

I call it the left hand butterfly.
Hold the sticks (forked) in your right hand. Hold your left hand palm up fingers pointing to the left,
the second diabolo is in this hand with the middle finger touching the axle.

Make sure the left hand is in line with the string and 'wave' it in (let it roll up towards the finger tips)

Grab the stick, catch the diabolo watch it shuffle a few times then come to a tangled mess.

Video of Left Hand Butterfly start (http://elveystreet.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sean/diabolo/left_h_butterfly.avi) (marvel at the horid shuffle technique and miss-alignment making a mockery of my points) ;)

Why I like this throw:
I find it easier to throw it in line.
I do not need to throw it so high.
I find it a stable throw.
The diabolo seems to hit the String (right side) in a way that starts the shuffle nicely.
It feels quite close to having a diabolo passed in.

Why I don't like this throw:
It isn't the prettiest
It gives you less spin than some methods
I haven't seen anybody using it to start three ;-)

A more common left hand throw is to hold the diabolo palm down and toss it in underhand like a boules throw (more spin this way)

Personally I'd say try the normal methods first (right hand and wraps) but if they are going nowhere try the above method.

(just my 2p)
keeping the shuffle going and corrections I'l leave to somebody else.

Seán
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on November 08, 2004, 06:15:30 AM
Thanks for the extensive notes on how you learned to start 2 diabolos, Seán. I'm curious to see that video. It might be neat to accumulate a few small clips of various people's 2 diabolo starting techniques.

OK, the subject of correction techniques is a big one. I'll get it started with some stuff ripped right from my site (diabolo.ca):

-------------
It seems like there are as many methods for steering two diabolos as there are diaboloists. Find a method that makes sense to you and work on it. You'll quickly become very good at it.

Here's what worked for me: Rub the top of a cup to turn a diabolo. Rub a side of a cup to tilt it. Done.

Remember that diabolos must be spinning relatively quickly to steer them while maintaining stability. Also note that both diabolos can be tilted by directing the right hand push slightly away from or towards the body.

Can only rub the cup closest to you? You're not alone. With time both cups will become easy to rub. Trust me.

By using combinations of the above mentioned techniques you can get away with only rubbing the close cup. Although you will likely have to keep turning.
-------------

Many people correct using vastly different methods than what I have described. I correct now almost entirely by tapping a diabolo while it is wrapped and it is being "whipped"... but that is most definitely not the best way to learn at first! ;)

How about you crazy people out there that correct by tapping the axles of the diabolo from various angles. How would you describe your methods?

Sean
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: barnesy on November 08, 2004, 10:02:41 AM
I've always thrown in from my right hand.  I'm not keen on wraps as a start method.   Throwing in just seems to make more sense!  I learned right handed throw ins first.  Rocket starts, wrap starts, floor starts, and left handed throw ins all came later.

But then I don't think I got the throw in start working quickly when I started learning.    I tell people it takes a long time to get the shuffle to start going round, then the same length of time to get correction sorted, then that same length of time again to get some tricks to start working.  At that point, everything starts coming together a lot better.  For me, I think each of those phases was a few weeks.  It was very slow to start with, but that tends to be the way I learn - other people will make quicker progress. I guess others will be slower.

The biggest thing that helped was good diabolos.  I first started two with little Beard High fliers.  They were awful.   I moved from those to renegades, which were fantastic for learning two.  I hardly use them nowadays though - I've moved to and stuck with Henry's Circus.

As for correction: I tell people to learn what effect rubbing different bits of the diabolo cups has on their angle, then try to apply that to two, hitting/rubbing against the diabolos as they pass down the right hand side (assuming right handedness).   These points may help:
Touching the top or bottom of a cup will make it turn left or right (viewed from above)[/list:u]
touching the sides will make it lean forwards or backwards.[/list:u]
It's easier to reach over the diabolo, so I recommend touching the top of a cup, or reaching over to touch the side of the cup so the diabolo doesn't miss the string.[/list:u]
Opposites can be helpful - remember that touching the top of the far cup is the same as touching the bottom of the near cup, etc[/list:u]
With practice, all of this becomes much more subtle - I do most corrections with one touch somewhere between the top and the side of a cup.[/list:u]
There are still times with 2 where you need to correct like you would correct one.  When both diabolos look straight, but are not in line with the string, you probably need to move your right hand backward or forward[/list:u]

Hope that helps.
Dave

PS  - This page here is the 'starting two' page on my website.  It probably contradicts most of what I just said, but may also be helpful.
http://www.2diabolo.net/?page=2
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Arjan on November 08, 2004, 03:30:03 PM
I like to keep it simple. Remember, a fast diabolo will stay more stable. So making speed wraps is the first important thing to do. Also making corrections on a fast diabolo is more secure, because it is more stable.
Speed is what you need (read in the non-drugs way  8) )
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on November 08, 2004, 04:24:09 PM
I don't know who to credit this too but I think I got it from rec.juggling. I found it usefull so I saved it as a text file to help others.

THE (first) RULE:  Decide quickly which diabolo you are going to correct and correct it.  If both are bad, just pick one and get to work.  Indecision and delay can be more a problem than anything.   Practice deciding what to do, so you can act quickly and correctly.

THE (slower) RULE:  Try to correct the slowest spinning diabolo first, if there is a difference.  Also remember that a slow spinner take less of a tap to correct it, maybe just a touch.

THE (tapping) RULE:  Tapping can be more of a 'drag' on the Near Cup.  Tapping can be more of a 'push' on the Far Cup.  Tap the top of the Near Cup.  Tap inside the top of the Far Cup.  A 'brush' of the string below the right stick is sometimes enough.

THE (misunderstood) RULE:  Don't try to correct a diabolo with one tap, always remember  you can correct a bit more one of the next times around.  Also don't feel you have to tap the 'bad' diabolo every time it goes by.  Often a shuffle will survive a bad diabolo for several cycles.

THE (unrealizing) RULE:  After deciding which diabolo to correct; toss it slightly higher as it comes around.  This slightly higher toss will give you a bit more time to tap it as it hits the right string.  The toss is more like a little dely in the shuffle and is almost unrealizable.

THE (rhythm) RULE:  Deciding which diabolo, slightly tossing it higher, and gently tapping the left-most cup are all part of the rhythm of correcting.  Deciding, tossing, tapping.  The rhythm of correcting is a little different than the regular shuffle.  

THE (wobble or tilting) RULE:  One way to correct a woble is to tap a diabolo to uncorrect it and then correct it back.  Another thing to do with a wobbling diabolo is toss it up at least head high.  Catching a falling wobbler is often the cure for evening it out, or at least a little.  A great correcting trick is to toss it head high, and hold your right stick (straight out) under the falling diabolo, instead of out to the right.  Allow the right back of the diabolo to land on the stick, before it hits the string.  This collision often straightens out 'Fore' and 'Aft' problems too.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Arjan on November 08, 2004, 04:40:28 PM
Yeah I`ve read that somewhere. But when a diabolo is out of speed (almost) and very in-correct tilted, I`d make speed first. With making speedpulls you can also correct the diabolo, if it is tilted the right way.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on November 08, 2004, 04:54:42 PM
Quote from: sean_
I don't know who to credit this too but I think I got it from rec.juggling. I found it usefull so I saved it as a text file to help others. ...

That's funny I remember reading that article when I was learning too, but I had forgotten about it. I think it helped me more than any other advice. Of course, at the time I didn't truly believe this was all possible for mere mortals such as myself... ahh the memories!  :D

Anyway, I believe that article should be credited to DiaboloTricks.com (http://diabolotricks.com/) at the following address: http://www.diabolotricks.com/2Correction.htm. But then, hey - what do I know - I figured that out through a message that you wrote (http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=41094950%240%2458816%24bed64819%40news.gradwell.net&output=gplain) (Seán) on rec.juggling back in July! ;)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on November 08, 2004, 06:18:13 PM
me and my memory :)

one usefull tip I got from Dave and Matt is that holding the left stick in line with the sting (as against the standard pointing forward) can help to keep things in line.

I usually have both sticks pointing forward but will do this on occasions. If your feeling particularly flash you can correct with the left stick as the diabolo leaves the string (not that its worth it).

A tip that helped me with driving was to practice orbits around the right leg, reducing the left hand action and learning to 'drive' the diabolo with the right stick. the action isn't exactly the same but it will give you the idea.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: kragen on November 10, 2004, 11:44:52 PM
Is there any preference as to what diabolo to use when doing 2?

At the moment I use a harlequin (I like the weight - it makes some things easier, at the same time the weight does mean I get tired quickly from chienese whipping, a couple of hours practicing a new trick where im dropping the diabolo lots and I cant do anything for a while :P)

I'm just learning 2, im borrowing a 2nd harlequin, but im going to need to buy myself a second diabolo soon. Some people say that harlequin are good for learning 2 as theyre heavy, in general they arent ideal for doing 2 though I gather (but I have no idea why).

I was considering buying 2 finesse instead of 1 harlequin so I had the option of using a lighter diabolo, plus the finesee might be better for doing 2 with.

As a side note  what sticks are best - rigid or flexible sticks?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Arjan on November 10, 2004, 11:47:01 PM
Well gear is totally a personal opinion, but in general: big diabolo`s are better. And rigid sticks will give you more control over you diabolo I think.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Tom Derrick on November 19, 2004, 11:57:52 PM
I've found myself throwing from the right hand, palm down, middle finger around the axel, launching with a flick of the wrist.
As for correcting, I'm not very good at it yet. I can't correct it when it's tilting towards/away from me, but for left/right I hold the right stick almost vertical, and in almost the same plane as the diabolos, but pointed slightly towards or away from me. I then hop the relevant diabolo onto the stick, where it'll sort itself out. I've tried the cup tapping, but due to the covering on the handstick and my relative inexperience, it ends up with the diabolo spinning quite roughly.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Paul on November 20, 2004, 12:22:08 AM
The cup tapping methods didnt really work for me when correcting. i seemed to have developed a correcting method through touching the diabolo axel. i do this with one basic action that is moveable into other positions

     ----------------                
      -------------              
        ---------          
          -------      
      0=========!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
          -------
         --------        
       -----------            
      --------------              

This is a lame drawing of half a diabolo with the right handstick on top of the axel so its touching. From this above view i simply rotate the stick tip away from me to turn the far cup to the right and towrds me to move the near cup to the right. By moving the hanstick so its on the axel but pointing diagonally up to the left, he same motions control tilt. You can combine the angles when you get a feel for it and controll tilt and turn in one foul swoop.

  This is the method that works for me but hey... Every diabolist ever has their own right!!!!1
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Tahia on November 20, 2004, 07:29:04 AM
well i'm a righ handed !!!
but if you see my video just at the beginiong of my 3low sesion !! i correct my axes with my LEFT hand :) it's for me the best to correct... but with joak.. i'm the only person to do that :D!! cause i begin bay the left hand.. but now i can correct with the two hand.. that is very practical!!
;) sorry i've no good advice for two diabolo starting :D !!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: diabololi on November 20, 2004, 05:44:01 PM
I spent abosultely aaaaages working on a 2 diabolo throw in, I was so frustrated! After about 2 months, I tried a wrap start and it worked first time! So try out different ways of starting.
Oli
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: MattF on November 21, 2004, 11:29:16 AM
I learned by using the rocket start as i thought that would be easier than the throw in. It took me a good 2-3 weeks to get it sorted. I found the cup correction to me a while to get to grips with. The 'throw in' i learned second but sometimes i throw in the diabolo at a slightly different angle to the one that is spinning which in turn needs cup correction  :roll:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on November 29, 2004, 05:20:22 PM
In another thread, Diabololi wrote about wobbly jazz diabolos he made this point

Quote from: diabololi
I use Henry's jazz diabolos, but I find that when I'm doing a 2 diabolo shuffle, they get out of line really quickly. So I'm constantly having to correct them even though they are spinning quite fast.

Also, when I use the wrap start, I have to point the wrapped diabolo inwards because it naturally turns outwards when it's in the wrap.

I have tried other diabolos and they seem to stay straight better.

Oli


the first part might partially be down to using small diabolos (though I believe  some people find them fine for two, they tend to be less used)

What I thought was worth putting in this thread was the fact that often when learning to wrap start you may find that the wraped diabolo will turn away from you.

This is, I believe, because the wrap will try and undo itself with a turning motion. If you were to put a pecil in a wrap instead of the diabolo it would quickly flip verticly then fall out. because a diabolo is well ballanced it does the next best thing which is to turn in a circle.

Any way. what can you do. as Oli points out some diabolos are more prone to this turn. I had this trouble when learning wrap starts and got around it by.
a) turning the diabolo towards me so that when it was ready to unwrap it was in line with the other diabolo
b) not doing that but giving the diabolo a good spin.

either a) or b) a combination of both should help if you have problems with a turning wrap start.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Gartok on December 14, 2004, 11:36:49 PM
Hi, first say that i´m from spain and my english is not very good. I started with the diabolos 5 months ago. I have 2 eagle of mister babache. And after os trying all kinds of trhowing i realise the best way for me is the wrap. I have to say that it change in one day, one day i couldn´t start with wrap and the day after i could, but i don´t know how.
But with the corrections i can´t so if someone could rec a video doing corrections i will be very very grateful. Thank you. I´m sorry of my english level. BYE
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on December 15, 2004, 12:01:01 AM
Hey Gartok,

There's a second thread on the forum about learning 2 diabolos (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=34)... maybe we should combine them. Have a look through it.

In that thread a video done by -Fred- gets mentioned that could be of help. Here's the link:
http://diabolos.zonealta.net/videos/2d/divers/2dcorrections.avi

You will need the XVID codec (http://www.xvid.org/index.php).

There is also a sticky at the top of the forum called "Trick and video archive (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=149)", which seàn_ has worked very hard to maintain, that will help you find this type of thing in the future. :D

Sean
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Gartok on December 15, 2004, 12:29:59 AM
I need a video of 2 diabolos corrections....please. I had one but it´s from a lef-handed person. If somebody that know how to do it could rec doing it i will be very happy. Thanks
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on December 15, 2004, 12:48:34 AM
Try looking in a mirror. ;)

OK, well there are many ways to correct 2 diabolos. Perhaps people will post some more videos in the future.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on December 15, 2004, 12:54:41 AM
Quote from: Sean
Try looking in a mirror. ;)


Good advice Sean what you see in that video is the mirror of what you have to do.

I remember how tricky it was to find a video of correcting 2. I believe the new Diabology DVD will cover this in some detail.

There are many different  ways to correct two. If anybody has the spare time to film their way it would be apreciated (having said that, Freds video is one of the best ones I have seen so far)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on December 15, 2004, 05:24:40 AM
Well Gartok, you inspired me to throw together some old footage I had of 2 diabolo corrections from above. Sorry this doesn't cover all corrections and sorry about the zooming (my cameraman got carried away, bless his eager heart)... but it is RIGHT HANDED... happy? ;)

It includes some whip corrections at the beginning, which is how I correct most of the time. I'll do something far more extensive on this some day.

http://diabolo.ca/video/temp/sean_2d__few_corrections.mpg (5.6mb)

[Edit - Switched to MPEG version]

Sean
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Gartok on December 15, 2004, 12:10:42 PM
SEAN you are the best!!!! Thank you very much. This video is what i needed exactly. So now is my time, i´m going to practice. If in the future you could post more videos about corrections i will be grateful, but with this a have something to start, thank you very much again.And thank you for this forum, i think is great, i did not find anything similar in spanish, i found great one in french but my french is worst than my english (if it is possible) so thank you for this forum
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: leftofpunk on December 27, 2004, 10:28:52 PM
So i'm trying the floor start as shown on thediabolo.com and it's not working. I can't get the diabolo to pop straight up. It's going to my left. I can't get the hand start at all..are there any other floor starts I can try?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on December 27, 2004, 10:44:15 PM
Leftofpunk, I attached your message to this thread which dealt with the same topic. Read through this thread for some ideas as well as this other thread (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=34).

Also, for some more floor starts, have a look through:
http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=31

Seán_ keeps a Trick and Video Archive sticky going at the top of the forum to make these types of things easier to find:
http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=149

As for the rocket start: you must pull up at an angle to the right at about 45 degrees and without separating the sticks.

Sean
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on December 28, 2004, 01:27:50 AM
Quote from: leftofpunk
So i'm trying the floor start as shown on thediabolo.com and it's not working. I can't get the diabolo to pop straight up. It's going to my left. I can't get the hand start at all..are there any other floor starts I can try?


I had problems learning floor starts, others learn them before throw and wrap starts. I still am not happy about rocket starts (which I think look really nice) but have found the following links helpfull.

Barnesy has some good advice on both rocket starts (his preferred floor start I believe) http://2diabolo.net/?page=9 and backwrap floor starts (the first floor start I could do)
http://2diabolo.net/?page=28

http://diabolotricks.com/2Starts.htm has some nice ones, the first one is the one I use, It takes a bit of working out how to set up but that soon becomes second nature.

Best of luck, its not an instant thing but shouldn't take too long (unless you are me and its rocket starts ;) )

Wrap starts might be worth trying if you are getting no where with floor or throw starts
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: leftofpunk on December 28, 2004, 04:37:25 AM
I "get" the idea with the quick launch and the backwrap floor start, just haven't gotten it down yet. I did get a taste of what it'll "feel" like once I get it going. I have a friend just starting with one and I had him toss me a diabolo into my already spinning single and I did two shuffles before it flew out. Felt pretty good and I think it'll help me practicing on my own so I'll know what feels right.

thanks for the links!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: leftofpunk on January 04, 2005, 03:15:45 AM
Just tonight, after three days of trying to figure out the wrap on the video that Tahia sent me....I've been able to do a 2 diabolo shuffle. Granted neither diabolos are straight with each other, I can still do it. Gotta work on that correction though before I can learn any tricks but I'm sooo proud of myself. You don't even need much cieling which is good for me.

So I know this is really low level stuff for you guys, but I've been working on this hard for 2 days now.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Punkerpanda on January 04, 2005, 03:32:37 AM
that's awesome! hehe, i remember this summer i spent a whole day practicing 2 diabolo shuffle. i would just throw it up, do a few orbits, drop it. throw it up, do a few orbits, etc. but it really pays off, i just  wish i hadnt slacked off with 2 diabolo for such a long time. oh well, wlel, congrats man. i find Sean's method the easiest, even though i've neglected a clockwise turn :P
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: leftofpunk on January 04, 2005, 04:44:03 AM
http://diabolos.zonealta.net/videos/2d/departs/departwrap.mpg
this is the method I learned with if anyone cares. Once I figured out the correct wrap it was just a matter of making sure it spun straight
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Tahia on January 04, 2005, 10:57:43 AM
i'm very happy for you leftopunk ;)!!
i'm a good teacher  8)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Gartok on January 24, 2005, 11:16:51 PM
Hi people, i know that i haven´t wrote since long time ago, but i was very busy with my exams and trying to learn 2d corrections. I think i didn´t pass some of my exams but i learn 2 diabolos corrections at the end. If for that i write a post again to give thanks to sean becase his video help me very much. My problem now is give aceleration, but i´m working in it...i acept help. Thank you
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Alex on January 25, 2005, 12:33:21 AM
I first had a friend throw in a second diabolo for me.  Then I learned throw in from my right hand.  I hold the diabolo on the very edge with just three fingers - my thumb on one side, and pointer and middle finger on the other.  It works perfect for me.  Then the wrap start, which I wish I learned earlier.  

One piece of advice: keep the left stick a little higher than the right stick, and make sure they are lined up!

To correct I just hit the top or side of the diabolo.  Sometimes, though, when the diabolo is spinning fast enough and needs to be turned to the right, I toss it on top of the right stick a little.  The back cup actually sits on the stick, somewhat, and it turns very quickly.  I don't know if that willl help anyone, but that is one of the first ways I learned to correct it.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Spooned on February 13, 2005, 01:23:54 PM
After 6 months of learing 1d i thought it was time to start learning 2. So after the first day i could get a shuffle by using the wrap in method. The only problem is after about 5 secs the diabolos just fall of the sting because the just tilt and turn, ive tried tapping cups but it just isnt working for me (ive been doing it for about 4 days and ive only tapped it once  :( ). Any videos of left handed 2d correction would be appreciated (sp?)
Thanks
~spooned~
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on February 13, 2005, 02:38:46 PM
Have a look through the second page of this thread (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=9&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15).

There is a video by Fred (left handed) and another by me (right handed) showing different correction techniques.

The diabolos must be spinning relatively quickly to be able to correct well.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Ceri-Anne on February 15, 2005, 03:27:25 PM
Thanks Sean, helpful videos! Still practicing though..
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: kragen on February 16, 2005, 10:57:23 AM
I have the shuffle fairly sussed at the moment, I quickly got fed up of asking people to throw in for me and realised i would learn far faster if I concentrated on starting myself and then worried about learning the shuffle.

I throw the diabolo in using my right hand spinning them from the axel (some people can throw in by holding the cups - I just cant, the diabolo either doesnt have any spin OR its tilted all over the place by the time it hits the string).

You need to throw the diabolo above you and to the right (if your throwing with your right hand), so that when you grab the handstick again to catch the diabolo, the first diabolo is still over to the left - that way the thrown diabolo lands on the string a fair distance away from the first diabolo - the further away it is the "larger" the shuffle is initially (if you see what I mean) which makes things loads easier.

I started off holding the left handstick parallel to the string and the right handstick normally, I found it really fairly strange doing that to begin with and actualy had to concentrate on holding the left handstick properly to make it instinctive so I could concentrate on the shuffle, im not sure if holding the handsticks wrong actualy makes the shuffle harder to learn or not - but it does make it easier to keep the whole system in line.

For a fair while I actualy had the right shuffle motion but I wasnt doing it in time with the diabolo, I was so fixated on getting the right motion that i wasnt "feeling" the diabolo. I had to really concentrate to make sure I responded when the diabolo pulled on the string - but it came in time.

Some people reccomend helping the diabolo out with the left handstick - I not sure if concentrating on the left handstick is a good idea or not, I found I needed all of my attention of the right handstick otherwise I found myslef doing completely the wrong thing and nothing I did with my left fixed it :)

My shuffle is now fairly stable, but I am hopeless at corrections, I can still keep the shuffle going for a long time though. If the shuffle is falling apart after a short while due to tilting diabolo then this is definitely a problem with the shuffle and / or start and you should concentarte on either the shuffle (if the shuffle is wrong the diabolo wont speed up and so will be unstable - alternatively if the system is out of line and the diabolo are landing on the cups and not on the axels this will cause tilting, and if the diabolo arent going fast then the shuffle can fall apart very quickly). Alternatively if the diabolo are out of line or arent spinning fast enough (or possibly even spinning the wrong way ;)) when you start then the shuffle will also fall apart very quickly unless you can correct, which you definitely shouldnt wory about until the shuffle is at least fairly good :P

At the moment im struggling with corrections, I know the theory, but whenver I go to tap a diabolo I just cant see how to get the handstick in the right place / angle - usualy I get it wrong and the diabolo doesnt actualy correct, quite a lot of time the diabolo I went to correct then misses the string.

I've tried hopping the diabolo im looking to correct upwards to try and give me more time, but with little success. At the moment im getting used to doing the shuffle with my handsticks held in different angles to try and make holding my right handstick in a position to correct more natural.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Chiok on February 16, 2005, 03:51:39 PM
Damn that's a lengthy post, don't you have lectures ya lazy maths bugger.
Besides the point, I've always been throwing in holding the cup and then just backwrap pulls to speed up.  I've started now getting one spinning quick and wrap start the other, but with the far cup tilted towards the left because when I start pulling, it slowly tilts clockwise, it saves some correction.

As for correction, tap it on top to go left/right, side for up/down.  Just try and poke it when it comes round and follow it down the right as well.

Chiok
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Spooned on February 17, 2005, 09:03:10 PM
Wow, thanks for the help.  :D
Now my shuffle is getting quite good and tapping is getting easier however i find tapping the far cup really hard, any suggestions on how to make it easier or techniques you have used?
Thanks
~Spooned~
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Chiok on February 17, 2005, 09:17:32 PM
Usually when tapping cups, you can use either the side of the handstick or the tip.  When I tap the far cup, I have to use the tip of the stick.  Just give it a quick poke as it goes round.  You have to be quick about the poke because a long drag will cause the string to rub against the cup and you'll get tiltage as well, which you don't want.

But yeah, just a quick controlled poke at the top or side with the end of your dominant handstick.

Chiok
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on February 17, 2005, 09:40:52 PM
The way I deal with far cup correction is to turn my right handstick so it faces my body, I find this keeps the string out of the way (actually leaves the string in line with the diabolos). This might be worth a try.  Everyone seems to come up with a way that works for them in the end, keep at it.

HTH

Seán
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: garfong on February 25, 2005, 02:17:40 AM
Thanks for the tips everyone, I got my 2 finesses in last week and this topic has been extremely helpful.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Llama_Bill on March 22, 2005, 09:55:04 PM
I've just started to learn a 2D shuffle but at the moment only one of the diabolos shuffles and the other one stays on the string and doesn't move and then falls off the string as it has no speed. I'll try and post a video in a bit.  Do you know what I'm doing wrong?

Billabong.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on March 22, 2005, 11:28:40 PM
A bit more information might help here Bill, how are you starting, which diabolo is not shuffling, have you practiced driving the diabolos?

But I think thats something a lot of people go through just some of the things you go through when first learning two. Keep trying it comes in the end, re read this thread and check out learning 2 diabolos, keeping the shuffle going (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=34) (kind of the thread for when you have got the shuffle but it might have some tips that are of use).

A video would be great as it might be more obvious what exactly you are doing/not doing and it might proove usefull for others going through the same as you in the future.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Ed on March 31, 2005, 12:40:32 PM
Thanks, with all this help i can successfully wrap start and shuffle and im still working on correcting and it only took me a day, and the video on corrections was a big help thank you.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Ed on April 01, 2005, 12:03:44 PM
I think i can do a piroutte (sorry about spelling) i had trouble figiuering out exactly what i was doing and im still not sure,as you would see in the sprinklers suns topic.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: diabololi on April 04, 2005, 09:53:48 AM
Sorry to change the subject a bit, but it is still on-topic.

I've noticed the way I correct isn't shown on diabology, nor have I seen it done by anyone else before. I will try to explain it;

For turn corrections I tap the near cup on the top or the near cup on the bottom. I also use hover stalls because they turn the diabolo away from you.

For tilt corrections, I tap the near cup's right or left side.

I never touch the far cup at all.

I can correct perfectly with my method and I was just wondering if it would be helpful to elarn some others.

Thanks
Oli
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on April 04, 2005, 10:35:54 AM
I think it is handy to be able to correct in several ways. There are no one way fits everybody solution to correcting but as long as you find a way that works for you thats what matters, then you can spend the time working on tricks.

Correcting by using the left side and bottom near cup are some of the rarer ones I think, thanks for bringing them up. I sometimes use the hovering methods to correct as well, both by using the turning action and by tapping. I'm not 100% happy with the tapping in a hover as it looks a bit awkward (when I do it) but it works so what the heck.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: martijn on April 04, 2005, 12:01:35 PM
Yeah, everybody has his own way of correcting diabolo's. If it works for you, that's great!

I for example only (can) correct them to the left, so I'm making 360's to the left with my body all the time when doing 2d :P
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on April 04, 2005, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: Martijn
I for example only (can) correct them to the left, so I'm making 360's to the left with my body all the time when doing 2d

Martijn! Do you think it might be time to finally learn to correct your diabolos to the right as well!? :P

Sheesh!  :roll:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: martijn on April 04, 2005, 02:14:59 PM
Well, I can do it a bit... But correcting to the left feels much better and is much safer for me :wink:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on April 04, 2005, 02:21:01 PM
Leave him alone Sean, he will have the perfect style for working in a big top type arena ;).

Before I got far cup corrections I was ok until I read on your site that you can get away with near cup correction as long as you dont mind going around in a circle. After that I couldn't help turning. :).

Martijn have you tried something radical like left stick corrections using the opposing tap principle?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: martijn on April 04, 2005, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: seán_
Martin have you tried something radical like left stick corrections using the opposing tap principle?

That's a question to me? My name is Martijn, and  believe there is a Martin on this forum as well (how confusing :roll: )

Yes, in the beginning I tried almost everything to correct my diabs. I can't correct with the left stick, (tried that, but it didn't work). If I touch the far cup, 50% of the time, the diab falls out of my string, so I prefer to only touch the near cup. Let's hope the audience doesn't notice I'm going in a circle. :wink: Hmm, maybe I just have plan one drop in my routine, so I can turn to the right with 1d and start 2d again :P It doesn't look nice if you're doing the Fan with your back facing the audience.

I don't have to use the far cup method very often. Most of the time I have to correct the diabs towards my body (tilt correction) and when I do that the diabolo goes to the left as well, because I touch the bottom of the near cup with my right stick.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on April 04, 2005, 03:09:14 PM
Sorry 'Tijn, I have a Mancunian accent so I tend to drop the second to last letter of most words, I call Martin 'Martn' :)

I think I mentioned it before but what got me over dropping when doing far cup corrections was to turn the tip of the handstick towards my body, thus keeping the string inline. If that does not help yopu maybe it can help someone else with simmilar problems.

I like hittting the bottom of the near cup, especially when you get the diabolo to stall on the handstick for a little time
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: martijn on April 04, 2005, 03:13:38 PM
Quote from: seán_
I think I mentioned it before but what got me over dropping when doing far cup corrections was to turn the tip of the handstick towards my body, thus keeping the string inline. If that does not help yopu maybe it can help someone else with simmilar problems.

Yeah, that's a nice tip. However, I just found out that if I want to correct to the right I do it while accelerating. In the wrap I touch the far cup on the left and the near cup on the right with my right stick. It turns to the right and tilts towards my body if I do that.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on April 04, 2005, 04:46:52 PM
It's quite possible to correct all directions of tilt and orientation using the wrap acceleration tapping method. In fact I probably do about 95% of my corrections that way.

It's a fun exercise to see how quickly you can turn both diabolos 360 degrees in both directions. I'm talking about turning each diabolo bit by bit and turning your body to face them until you've turned your body and diabolos 360 degrees. One way is probably much easier than the other. I haven't played with that for a while. Maybe a diabolo video contest some day? :P

Another fun exercise is to acceleration wrap correct one diabolo until it has turned 180 degrees and then tap it back.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Llama_Bill on April 05, 2005, 11:15:09 PM
Here is my 2 diabolo "shuffle" (http://www.jugglethis.net/filemgmt/singlefile.php?lid=83) watching it on video I can see the motion is very jerky and mostly wrist so I'm going to try and change that.  So the reason I posted it is so that you guys can tell me what else I'm doing wrong.  Is the "shuffle" really upright because of my small jerky motion?  I know the file size is rather big but my camera is the only way to get videos onto the computer.

Bill.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on April 06, 2005, 06:37:33 PM
Bill, it looks to me like your shuffle is small and upright because the timing of your right hand is a bit off. You aren't lowering your hand with each diabolo... you're a bit behind or early (depending which way you want to look at it).

You might find it easiest to add some left hand motion at first too. Nothing wrong with using your left hand a bit.

Have a close look at some 2 diabolo shuffle videos out there and try out some different motions and timing.

I'm sure it will be smooth and easy in not too long.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Llama_Bill on April 07, 2005, 07:47:26 PM
Are there any videos of someone just running a 2 diabolo shuffle for a while as all videos I watch they start to do accelerations, corrections and then tricks but all I want to see is the basic motion.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: barnesy on April 07, 2005, 08:09:15 PM
That's not a bad point actually.  I'll have a go at recording something in a bit.  Will be tricky to not correct or do tricks though!

edit - I've tried it, and it's jsut too dark.  Can have a better go over the weekend, but for something like this it's probably best if you don't have to guess where I am!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Paul on April 07, 2005, 08:12:06 PM
I recently tought a mate how to do a 2 diabolo shuffle. I said to him just raise and lower both hands at the same time to make a really exaggerated synch pattern. This motion tends to fire the diabolos into a more horizontal shape. Why not give this a try and see if it helps out? from there you could alter it a bit until you find the feel that suits you. Apart from that youve almost got it. You just need to lower your sticks to the same height. youre left hand is really high.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: viiru on April 07, 2005, 08:45:40 PM
I prefer keeping left hand almost still and right hand pushes aggressively, but not with exaggerated move, downwards. you'll get lots of more spin and control that way.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Ed on April 08, 2005, 06:01:50 PM
I use mainly my left hand to carry on the shuffle but occasionally both at the sametime, i find only trying to use my right hand results in the diabolos slowly landing on top of each other, im not even sure if i should try to learn to use my right because i seem to be coping fine with my left and i can still speed them up.
I was wondering wheather i should consider learning with my right? Will it help me with tricks?

edit- and will it speed the diabolos up more?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on April 08, 2005, 07:04:06 PM
Quote from: Ed
...and will it speed the diabolos up more?

yes
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on April 08, 2005, 07:36:48 PM
Llama_Bill, just to satisfy my interest pull some string out of the end of your handles and tie a temporary knot so you have a shorter string. I seem to recall that helped me when I was trying to get to grips with the shuffle as the whole thing felt more solid but I might be just a freak :)

Ed getting the right hand in action is a good thing, some people use only the left (rare), a lot use just the right or the right with a bit of left. Tahia teaches people 2 using the Left hand as he believes it is an easy concept to grasp from 1d. I can kind of see his reasoning but I still see right hand as the way to go. whichever method, being able to do left, combination and right gives you more options in the long run.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: lemony on April 08, 2005, 07:57:25 PM
it looks to me like you're doing something which until recently i was absolutely guilty of and i remember seán_ said he sometimes had difficulty with when he tries 3D stuff...

I find that there's a really stong urge when you#'re concentrating really hard on getting something like a shuffle going to lift your arms up so that the diabolos are closer to your eye line. I found it particularly true with my left handstick. try and keep the shuffle low and push the diabolo around the string rather than trying to flick them back and forth (which is much much harder with the diabolos up high). Aside from a helping hand from seán_ and matt in leeds, i found looking at really smooth actions like Ryo's (http://www.diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=252) helpful. try to make as smooth a circle as you can, it really helped me.

edit: god, hangovers do nothing for my english skills...
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Dave P on April 09, 2005, 11:20:10 AM
Quote from: Ed
i find only trying to use my right hand results in the diabolos slowly landing on top of each other


You are probably holding your sticks too far apart, try shuffling with the stick tips almost together.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Ed on April 09, 2005, 05:24:53 PM
Wow i had never thought of doing that dave thanks for the advice, i'll try it out and see if it helps.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: barnesy on April 09, 2005, 07:07:41 PM
here you go, Bill: http://dreamhost.barnesy.org/just2.mpg (4.4mb)

That's a video of two diabolos for as long as I could manage before trying to correct a lot or do tricks.  I'm surprised to see how much my left hand moves.  Thats not a conscious thing - all I think about is moving my right hand and keeping the left hand still.  I think that movement may just happen because of the movement of the string.  I'm not moving the left hand - I'm letting it move.  If that makes any sense at all.  THe right hand action is the one to get.

I hope it works OK - it's the first .MPG I've produced on my mac mini.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Ed on April 09, 2005, 07:45:19 PM
Thanks Dave P that really helped i use my right hand alot more now and i can tell how it speeds it up. Cheers :wink:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Llama_Bill on April 09, 2005, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: barnesy
here you go, Bill: http://dreamhost.barnesy.org/just2.mpg (4.4mb)

Thanks for that it's a huge help.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hoop on April 11, 2005, 02:18:59 PM
Hi, would someone please either describe or tell me where to find a description of a wrap start?  I saw a video of it (I think) on this thread, but it looks like the guy is maybe left-handed?  I can't quite make out what is going on there.  I have been getting one diabolo spinning fast then wrapping the right stick counter-clockwise once around the second diabolo and trying to get it spinning.  It hasn't worked at all, so I'm thinking maybe I'm doing something wrong.  Thanks for any help!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on April 11, 2005, 04:06:58 PM
Hi Hoop. I had a bit of a search for you but it was dragging so I thought I would just put my thoughts down.

Get one diabolo spinning well, transfer sticks into left hand.
Take the second diabolo in the palm of your hand (diabolo on top)
reach in front of the right hand string and bring the right hand side of the axle in contact with the left hand side of the right string.(the string goes past the pinky side of your hand).
Lift the diabolo over the stick so that you have put a backwrap on.*
Turn the diabolo slightly anticlockwise as seen from the top to counteract the turning motion.
Stroke up to get the diabolo spinning (doesn't have to be really fast) and grab the right handstick**
unwrap (this feels simmilar to exiting a RH stopover with a bit of force, or actually more corectly exiting a RH backwrap say after 1d speedups)

I find it helps if you have the wrapped diabolo close to the handstick (but not in its way) and dont let it drop too far down the string. When you grab the handstick dont keep the handsticks close together, I believe doing so causes the diabolo to slip down.
Its a great way to start multiple diaboilos, It's easier to learn on worn in string.

*This is the method I show people as quite a few seem to use it, I use a slightly different method where I hold the near cup 'radio dial' style and twist it in to the string. I learnt how from watching clips but you can practice putting in this wrap ans see which you prefer.
** at this point you can go into hovers (most likely when you get the hang of wrap starts.

HTH. tell me if I have just confused the issue more.

Seán
Wrap starts could definately do with a video tutorial if anybody has the inclination/camera
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: lemony on April 11, 2005, 04:44:45 PM
great description seán_ Barnesy's site has a clip of the start performed "radio" style http://2diabolo.net/?page=27 and the principle is the same

i'm sure sopmeone has a clip of the other technique
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hoop on April 11, 2005, 07:24:06 PM
Thanks Sean with the line over your name.   :lol:     The only area I didn't understand was the very beginning.  Am I reaching out around the right string and then pointing my fingers back at myself?  If not, I can't seem to work out how the right side of the axle touches the left side of the right string and the pinky finger of my palm up right hand is nearest the string>??     If it is, then I guess that makes sense, since my arm can't pass through the stick.  :)   I hope I haven't made more confusion.  I really want to learn 2d!!!  Thanks
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: lemony on April 11, 2005, 07:34:32 PM
it sounds like you have the right idea... if it helps, here's (http://www.lemony.co.uk/tmp/wrapstart.MOV) a clip of me doing it...

my technique there is awful (it's not usually that bad) but you can at least see how the wrap works

oh and after you warap it i don't think most people don't bother doing those snaps but it's just the way that feels most natural to me
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Chiok on April 11, 2005, 10:44:20 PM
I wrote a similar thing to Séan earlier, but then had to leave uni so forgot about it, but it's the same idea with a few differences in my technique.
I make the first diabolo tilt slightly forwards because when I hover, it tends to make it tilt.  And spin the second diabolo before you let go, that helps no end in giving you enough time to get the handstick back and keep it stable doing so.
And I put the second one in radio dial style too by holding the near cup and twisting it around the string.  When you practise it more, you'll know how much to tilt each diabolo so you get the most speed you can because the wrap loses its grip when it gets fast.
Also when you practise, if you haven't tilted the second one enough, you can tap the top of the near cup to tilt it back to centre.

It's how I always start to get speed quick as I can't do chinese whips or wrap every pass.

Chiok
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hoop on April 12, 2005, 02:54:57 PM
Thanks guys.  Yeah, the spin before letting go tip helps! :)   I kept trying and the diabolos kept crashing, not shuffling.  :(   I almost got it last night.  Once the second diabolo is coming down, do I have to toss the first one up to make room, or does the unwrapping of the second one automatically do this?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on April 12, 2005, 03:03:44 PM
The unwrapping will do this. In fact, if anything you will have to dampen the jumping of the bottom diabolo with your other hand... especially eventually when you do continuous backwraps.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: kragen on April 14, 2005, 10:11:37 AM
I havnt been putting so much effort into my 2 diabolo recently as the only thing I can do is the shuffle and corrections (1 diabolo is getting really fun and intresting atm),

All the same, my advice on learning corrections is to concentrate on one type of correction (whichever you find easiest), e.g. tilting forward is one of the ones I find easier, or turning to the left.

By concentrating on that correction, you can get used to some of the general essentials of correcting - forcing 1 diabolo higher than the other, or just general control over the right handstick.

Initially I found poking the right handstick near the diabolo really strange - it was difficult to "track" the diabolo, so a lot of the time attempting a correction usualy destroyed my shuffle even without handstick and diabolo coming in contact with each other :P For a long time I thought I wasnt making any progress - I tapped the diabolo, but usualy in a completely random location so it went completely a completely different direction each time - perhaps it would have helped if I got used to accurately tapping the diabolo in a specific place, and then learn how to correct it in a specific direction.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Spink on April 15, 2005, 12:35:28 PM
Not on corrections yet so sorry to step back a bit...

I have been trying the shuffle for a month on and off but don't seem to be getting anywhere with it.

I can wrap start but when i unloop the wraped diabolo the one on the bottom of the string just jumps up and the unwraped diabolo travels underneath it.

how can i get the open diabolo to pop to my strong hand rather than it going straight up whilst the other diabolo travels around it.

Help appreciated.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on April 15, 2005, 02:46:53 PM
Quote from: Spink
how can i get the open diabolo to pop to my strong hand rather than it going straight up whilst the other diabolo travels around it.

Maybe you could try changing the direction of your unwrap. Try unwrapping to throw that wrapped diabolo on an angle towards your other hand instead of straight down. The bottom diabolo will jump in an opposite direction. It's more of a circular motion than a straight down motion.

Just my thoughts... any others?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Mattias on April 15, 2005, 03:01:39 PM
I think it is very improtartant that you unwrap in the right way. Let the diabolo go around the stick instead of the stick around the diabolo. This will greatly increase the force the diabolo is travelling down the line, which in turn will pop the other diabolo higher. Atleast this is what I say to any person that wants to learn 2.(one so far :)) And it seemed to work really well.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Dave P on April 15, 2005, 03:25:30 PM
Spink:

You're so close to Leeds, why not go to one of the juggling clubs and bug Seán or Matt for help. Failing that you're also only a stones throw from Sheffield so you could pay us a visit  :D and get some help!
Our club, the Flying Teapots, meets on Monday evenings from 7 till 9, at St. Andrews Church on Upper Hanover Way (Sheffield), during University term time.
Maybe see you soon?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Spink on April 16, 2005, 11:31:29 AM
Quote from: Malte
Let the diabolo go around the stick instead of the stick around the diabolo.


I will give this a try as soon as i get  to my diabolos :D

And thanks Dave P,  i go to the juggling club at Leeds uni but am just waiting for it to open.

Seán_ if your looking at this could you let me know when they are starting again.

Cheers for the help
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Susannah on May 03, 2005, 03:05:43 PM
I have tried a few times to learn how to use two diabolos. The problem is i cant keep them both on the string for very long. I was wondering if it takes a lot longer to actually pick up the basics than to learn new tricks because otherwise I should probably give up now.
Im pretty good at one diabolo so I would have thought I could manage two with a bit of persistance, but as of yet it hasnt paid off.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hoop on May 03, 2005, 03:20:12 PM
Hi RattaY, There is a lot of information about learning 2 diabolos on this site and others.  One that comes to mind is 2diabolo.net.  I think a lot of members learned from that site.  I think being very discouraged is part of the game.  I am trying my best to learn 2 now and so far I am getting nowhere.  :(   I think I had a small success last night though.  I will post about it on another 2 diabolo thread.  Why don't you find a thread that deals with the troubles you are having and ask about it there?  :)  This way, the posts will be easier for other learners to find.  Good luck!  Look at this http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=9

Mod edit - thanks Hoop, couldn't have said it better myself. I've merged RattaY's and your message to the thread you mentioned.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hoop on May 03, 2005, 04:20:44 PM
And as I'm reading this thread, I'm surprised to find my last post moved here only moments after I made it!   :shock:    Okay, I want to break this down and see if it makes sense.  When I throw a second diabolo in, I was holding the string too tight.  The first diabolo couldn't launch without slack.  I started trying to be less tight and the first D jumped better.  When I throw in and catch, I try to lower my left hand, raise my right hand, catch the diabolo on my right and then quickly raise my left hand higher than my right and then start driving with my right.  Is this correct?  I can only make the second D orbit about 2-3 times.  I have been practicing tons without improvement.  What else can I do?  :cry:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on May 06, 2005, 09:35:23 PM
If you raise your left hand I think that will force the shuffle to be small and towards the right hand.

very basically with a throw start
hold both in left hand
toss one up
grab right handstick and reach across to right ready to catch the falling diab
this puts the diab on the string on the left side, the second diabolo forces this up the left hand side and starts the shuffle (aided by an upwards and slightly to the left movement* of the left handstick by a lot of people)
start to drive with the right handstick with the motion simmilar to the one you have been practicing with around the leg - you have been practicing that?)
continue the shuffle, right hand predominately, left hand to help the shape

*or whatever works for you

I dont worry too much about the tension, it all seems a natural thing.

(people will help at IJA most likely there will be a workshop, there generally is, or somebody who seems aproachable will more than likely offer advice if you catch them at the right time)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hoop on May 07, 2005, 02:22:38 AM
Is the around the leg practice thing different from just orbiting around your leg like any other time?  Should I be trying to run the string against my leg?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on May 07, 2005, 08:38:22 AM
Pretty much your regular ATL but when you get it going use your right hand to drive the diabolo (as the diabolo hits the right side push down on it and start to get the circular hand  motion/rythm) . Tne leg acts kind of like the other diabolo during the shuffle. as the diabolo makes it up the left side you should see how you dont need the left so much. as the diabolo pops across.
Try it and see what you think.I rate this exercise, it helped me a lot. At the very least you should find it a handy skill to develop for 1d :)

Thats your lot for the mo', I'm of to the Brum convention :)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Ed on May 09, 2005, 10:38:53 PM
You may already be doing this but i found this tip helpfull: Get the tips of your sticks quite close together whilst driving.

I used to be really bad at driving with my right hand untill i tried this and it works

Overtime now i don't hold the sticks as close together because i got used to it.

Sorry if this post wasn't helpfull at all.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: looby on May 10, 2005, 02:02:36 AM
In terms of starting two I've always wanted to use the wrap start (with the other already spinning) but found it very difficult to stop the wrapped diabolo from sliding down the string and hitting the other diabolo. Broken in string obviously helps alot but my problem is more to do with the initial pull to keep it above the one already spinning. Because of this i've had to use the quick throw in start as baptiste does in diabology and found it to be the best option. It'd just be nice to try other starts  :wink:  . Any ideas?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on May 10, 2005, 02:41:14 AM
I found it easier to wrap start with my henrys rather than finesse with finger axles. Two other things that helped me was to start the diabolo fairly close to the right stick (but not so that it gets in the way) and also not to have the sticks too close together. This might be a friction issue or just the fact that it wont roll as fast down a less steep 'hill'.

Some people do little quick jerks to get the diaolo back up to a better unwrap position, others are happy just to go with what they have to go with. Lots of practice as well.

You might want to consider learning some floor starts. there are plenty to try, There is a great video posted by vch of over 60 1 and 2d starts (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=428) (as well as two videos of suicides and stick grinds)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: |}{| Julian |}{| on May 10, 2005, 03:21:12 AM
Quote
You might want to consider learning some floor starts.


When I was learning two diabolos all I used was the rocket start.  It gets both diabolos spinning so you can practice shuffling.  The rocket start also launches the diabolos in correct alignment so they don't need to be corrected right away (this is plus when you're learning).  I found it the best way to learn two, but everyone to their own.  There's an animation of it on this page.  http://www.diabolotricks.com/2Starts.htm

Julian
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on May 10, 2005, 05:40:26 AM
Sorry if this has already been said... I'm forgetting now:

It's important to realise that with the wrap start, the diabolo should be mostly supported by the friction on the wrap and not by your hand. Your hand should be mostly keeping the diabolo from turning or tilting. If you are holding the diabolo up with your hand and the string is slack then as soon as you let go the diabolo will fall down the string until it catches.

Secondly, the spin you give the diabolo is only enough to keep the diabolo straight while you unwrap. If you give it more spin it will slide down the string faster and make things more difficult.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: stix on May 11, 2005, 08:13:20 PM
I am findind it hard to correct my second diabolo any tips? :?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on May 11, 2005, 08:18:51 PM
Have a look through the "tricks and video archive (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=149)" sticky at the top of the forum for some good threads already started on this.

This thread (which I have now merged yourm message to) is probably your best bet.

If you still have questions after reading through that thread feel free to post in it. We try and keep messages about each topic in one thread to keep the board organized and easy to use. ;)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hoop on May 14, 2005, 12:28:25 AM
OMG!  I need help!  haha.. this is driving me crazy...  I have been trying the throw in and the wrap start.  The wrap is okay, but I can't get it consistent, too many tangles.  Sometimes I can get the throw in to shuffle a couple times by itself if I leave it alone, but as soon as I try to drive it at all, they crash.  I'm thinking that maybe I'm starting to drive too soon, before the first diabolo has time to bounce to the right???  Also, sometimes the shuffle reverses itself.  What am I doing wrong?  I don't want to form bad habits.  :cry:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: arnie on May 14, 2005, 01:19:39 AM
If it reverses i think you are probably driving too soon aswell.  Try to really concentrate on driving as the diabolo hits the string. Have you tried the old "gettin someone else to throw one on"? This can give you a bit of an idea of how to drive without all the added pressure of getting a good throw and driving the pattern aswell. This depends on you having someone to throw one on of course.

Also, are you left or right handed because you say the 1st diabolo doesnt have time to bounce to the right, are you sure you are throwing it on the correct side of the diabolo already on the string?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hoop on May 14, 2005, 03:00:20 AM
Hi, yes, I am right handed.  I throw the diabolo with my right hand, and catch it on the right of the diabolo on the string.  What I meant there was that instead of it bouncing the first one over it and to the right, it just slides down to the left and hits the first one.  I unfortunately don't have anyone to help me throw.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Punkerpanda on May 14, 2005, 03:44:52 AM
i'm no expert on 2 diabolos, but i'd say either try wrap start, give it more of an umph in my opinion
also, try experiemnt with how far apart your arms are. i'm not sure if these things will help, but i'm dead tired and i wanted to try to help
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: arnie on May 14, 2005, 04:27:07 AM
hoop

you need to give the left hand diabolo a bit of lift with ur left hand as the right diabolo hits the string.  this should happen naturally with the weight of the first diabolo making the left diabolo jump up. you may not be throwing high enough and so not giving the left diabolo enough energy to leave the string.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hoop on May 14, 2005, 08:35:01 PM
Thanks guys, your tips are helping.   I also video taped myself and I noticed that I was moving my left hand to the left when I caught the 2nd diabolo.  I tried keeping it completely still and the string vertical, and it worked.  I shuffled about 3 or 4 times.  :D   Now I keep moving the whole thing to the right???  I am trying to work on not doing that....  any more tips?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hoop on May 16, 2005, 12:58:36 AM
Okay, whoever mentioned the tip about using a shorter string to learn 2 diabolos... Grrrr!  That seems to have been my problem all along.  I have been using a much shorter string (henry's yellow) and today I tried a longer one (henry's white).  The longer string worked.  I was able to shuffle about 5-6 times.  :D  Still not great, but better than before.  I think I actually have the feel now.  Although now, I am trying to learn to drive it properly.  I end up smacking the diabolos as they go by, which does drive them, but also messes up their alignment.  Please help!  :(
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: kragen on May 16, 2005, 07:23:38 AM
Quote from: Hoop
Hi, yes, I am right handed.  I throw the diabolo with my right hand, and catch it on the right of the diabolo on the string.  What I meant there was that instead of it bouncing the first one over it and to the right, it just slides down to the left and hits the first one.  I unfortunately don't have anyone to help me throw.


it might just me misinterpreting you there... but if you throw in with your right hand the best way is probably to...

1) Hold both handsticks in the left hand so that the diabolo is somewhere near your left leg

2) throw the 2nd diabolo vertically upwards with spin somewhere above your right leg.

3) Then grab the right handstick and pull it over to the right to catch the diabolo on the right of the string.

the trick is to get part (3) late enough so that the 1st diabolo stays on the left - that way the diabolo get the most separation in the string initialy and the patterns motion is exaggarated.

What should happen next is that the 1st diabolo should hop off the string and to the right over the 2nd diabolo, wheras the 2nd diabolo will roll down the string and to the right (make sure that you spun the 2nd diabolo in the right direction :P)

If you have the wrap start quite good, then to be honest I think your better off with that start, I could never manage it when I started diabolo, but in the past few weeks ive nailed it, and it works very well - once your used to hopping the 1st diabolo to the right and simultainously unwrapping the 2nd (and catching the 1st) the wrap start gets both diabolo spinning quite fast and they start off well separated. I would find a starting method that works well for you and then try out different starting methods when you have the shuffle nailed.

If you can get someone to throw in for you, you woldnt believe how much help it is - it took me a full 2-3 weeks to learn 2 diabolo, practicing as much as I could, but a few weeks ago I managed to get someone doing the basic shuffle in 2-3 days, just by throwing in for them (and I'm not great at throwing in, or even a good teacher! :P)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: kragen on May 16, 2005, 07:29:03 AM
Quote from: Hoop
Okay, whoever mentioned the tip about using a shorter string to learn 2 diabolos... Grrrr!  That seems to have been my problem all along.  I have been using a much shorter string (henry's yellow) and today I tried a longer one (henry's white).  The longer string worked.  I was able to shuffle about 5-6 times.  :D  Still not great, but better than before.  I think I actually have the feel now.  Although now, I am trying to learn to drive it properly.  I end up smacking the diabolos as they go by, which does drive them, but also messes up their alignment.  Please help!  :(


Ooops - didnt see that there was another page.

If your driving them so much that they hit your sticks then thats good - shows you have a solid shuffle motion, you need to do the same motion, just less violently. The trick is to do the shuffle motion with your right hand less violenty, while keeping it in time with the shuffle.

Remember what your doing to make the shuffle that big though - being able to do that to one diabolo at a time will help enormously when learning to correct.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hoop on May 16, 2005, 02:15:04 PM
Thanks,  I am using the wrap start now.  I couldn't get it to work consistently until I saw Trash doing it on Diabology.  Now it's pretty good except for every once in awhile it feels like it snags or gets stuck.  Anyway, when I try the shuffle, I keep moving with it for some reason.  I read Barnesy's description of the motion, (make a clockwise circle with the right hand as each diabolo passes) and I've practiced around the leg so that I can drive that with just my right hand, but it feels different with 2 diabolos.  Can someone please explain the feeling of the right hand driving motion in very specific detail.  This is very hard to learn without another person to help.  Thanks :)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Zharastrian on May 19, 2005, 06:29:03 PM
i'm sorry for not having read through the whole thread but i'd rather go the direct way to get answer to one of my most urgent questions at present. so please don't blame me wether this was measured out before...

can I learn the 2 with a jazz and a circus???
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Arjan on May 19, 2005, 06:49:54 PM
No you shouldn`t. Because of the difference in weight it`s not recommend to learn with 2 diabolo who are not the same. Only experienced diaboloists can do this... but why should they? It doesn`t make any sence.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on May 19, 2005, 06:52:41 PM
you could, but it would be quite difficult, and learning wo is difficult enough. so probably best to bite the bullet and get a second diabolo (the most likely advice would be to get a second circus)
Maybe see if you can borrrow a second diabolo.

The different weight and spin charachteristics of the two diabolos just makes it awkward, (not impossible just one more thing to worry about) give it a try with the mismatched diabolos, but I'm pretty sure you will end up getting a pair.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Tom Derrick on May 19, 2005, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: Zharastrian
can I learn the 2 with a jazz and a circus???


You can. The basic shuffle isn't as difficult to learn as people make out with different size diabolos, but correcting is a lot harder, particularly with the small one.
I'd say that you could get away with different diabolos for a month or so before it becomes a major hinderance.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Dave P on May 20, 2005, 11:22:08 AM
Quote from: Zharastrian

can I learn the 2 with a jazz and a circus???


This is a great idea :D  also you should use one handstick longer than the other and consider a string that is about 34.8% bungy cord. 2 diabolos is frankly TOO easy to learn and anything you can do to slow your progress can only make the rest of us look better! :wink:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Spooned on May 20, 2005, 04:00:04 PM
Quote from: Dave P

This is a great idea :D  also you should use one handstick longer than the other and consider a string that is about 34.8% bungy cord. 2 diabolos is frankly TOO easy to learn and anything you can do to slow your progress can only make the rest of us look better! :wink:


LOL sweet one, but seriously don't learn with two differently weighted idab's, its hard enough to get as it is. Took me ages even with the same weighted diabs
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Zharastrian on May 20, 2005, 05:11:00 PM
thought so...but on the other hand...can't help...feel a strange motivation approaching now...could borrow one indeed but...what a feeling it must be to end up with all those differences smoothly encircling each other...oh no...you ENCOURAGED me...whaaaahhhhh...
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: JGherkin on May 20, 2005, 05:18:19 PM
Yeah! Gopher it, I've been having great fun doin two diabs with a Circus and a Birdie  :lol:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Zharastrian on May 21, 2005, 07:59:32 PM
got it with two jazzes today (no circus around)
mayhap you can learn it with the unlike brothers but it is easier with twins indeed...so at least you got me!!

I also enlarged the string about 10 cm to embed them calmly...works out rather fine. thank you.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Dracodragon on May 22, 2005, 09:22:04 PM
Yes, two diabolos is pretty tough. I am still having trouble correcting, but ive gotten better. I use the cup tap method to correct. I am also experimenting with what I think is a new 2d start, although i dont know if its possible. Ill try to get a video on it once i do it, if I do it... #-o Its kinda hard to explain too.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: DrRobotnik on May 28, 2005, 11:00:54 PM
Tomorrow morning i'm going to bite the bullet an get a couple of finesse G2s before i get a chance to spend up in the pub.

 I thought I would be interesting to post my progress and any tips given for the step to 2d over the forum in a single thread.

Good luck to anyone starting with 2d.  :D
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Dracodragon on May 28, 2005, 11:23:30 PM
Well, good luck man. 2d is strange at the beginning, but you get the hang of it after a while. I am barely starting to get better at 2d. :)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: TimEllis on June 14, 2005, 05:09:36 AM
Whenever I try to do a wrap start, it seems like my string cant "grab" it.  I tug and tug, but it always slides down and knocks the other diab.  Advice??
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Dracodragon on June 14, 2005, 05:22:07 AM
Hmm, either your string is slippery. Also, are you using more of your wrists instead of your all arms?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Paul on June 14, 2005, 11:52:27 AM
Learning 2 with a dirty string is far easier because you get more grip, hence more control. once you get a feel for it, it wont really matter to much if your string is slippery or sticky
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Chiok on June 14, 2005, 03:36:45 PM
I'm glad this came up, because it's been annoying the pants off me as well.  I'd been doing 2D all the time before with Henry's Beach diabolos and it was all fine, though I couldn't hit some tricks with them (like high siteswaps etc.)  Then I got 2 Finesse G2s in the hope that it'd all smooth out and be fabulous.  To my dismay, I'm absolutely pants with the G2s.  The main problem is that I can't get the diabolo to hover either.  Could before, can't now.  And my string is super old, was really long, but just snapped lil bits at a time to about shoulder height now.

So I'm really annoyed at the G2s as to why I can't get them to work.  Maybe not heavy enough for me?  Attach some weight kits to it?

Chiok
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Paul on June 14, 2005, 04:23:17 PM
finesse are a slippy on the string naturally. This is why I think peeps have mentioned that they like the way that they 'glide' on the string. I think its just a matter of getting used to them. I have 2 G1 and 2 G2 as well as 2 circus and 2 radient. They all act diffrently but I can use them all fine now adays. The weight kits do make the finesse a bit more grippy too. ive got some weights but I dont use them anymore.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on June 23, 2005, 09:06:09 AM
MOD: Moved from 1d speedup thread, maybe more usefull here.

Quote from: QUOTH

ok, so one more thing. ive seen the basic way of using 2 diabolos. get one on the string and getting spinning how you want then wrap the second in the right string and whip it to keep it up and spinning. i really cant do it, it just slides down the string  :? am i doing it wrong or is it just alack of practice?  [i havent tried it with 2, im just getting used to it for when i have a try on a friends in a week]


Quote from: Matt_
when you first put it in the string, dont whip it. just...tug on it. and you dont want to keep it in there long. what i was taught is to just spin it up so it's going then immediately go into the shuffle. no need to just be there accelerating it for 10 seconds and then shuffling. maybe 3 seconds and go.


 It comes with practice, feel and also the weight of the diabolo tightening the string. the angle of the string comes into play as well (think of a car on a really steep hill, a mellow hill or flat ground), to be honest it's something you will find out in time, but if you havent tried 2 yet it's not really something to be worrying about. have a look through the begining two threads to get an idea what to expect, but getting a shuffle going from a pass in is going to be your main concern, not so much speeding up (unless you are going for wrap starts where matt_'s advice rings true, just get it on, a little spin to get the diabolo stable and just ;) unwrap it into the shuffle).

The hover speed up method you might have seen in soome videos took me a fair while to get. Most peoples initial speed gains come rom just doing the shuffle.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Llama_Bill on June 24, 2005, 08:44:16 AM
After ages of posting in this thread I have got the shuffle like I wanted (low and under control) and I can do a few tricks (Sun, suicide, foot stall, grind, sprinkler) every so often but I can't speed up or correct so hopefully I'll get some help at EPCC.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Dracodragon on July 03, 2005, 05:38:51 PM
Does anyone have any tips on starting and keeping three going. I got my 3rd diabolo yesterday, and I had some friends throw it in, which one or two times I was successful and going through about one cycle. But I need to know if I got the whole concept of three shuffle. SO far I think you throw one diabolo up with the left hand, and do that for each one that comes to your left hand, while your right hand is kinda pushing them and catching the ones thrown. I also am having trouble starting by myself. Oh well, I am not really worried about getting three shuffle, and start so fast since I only got the third one yesterday. I will get it eventually after tons of frustration, practice, and time.  :roll:  Well, any small tips will really help out with this three shuffle I am trying to get.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: barnesy on July 03, 2005, 05:55:41 PM
Try looking at the sticky 'trick and video archive' thread near the top of the forum.  You'll find lots of threads about three diabolos there.  Let's keep this thread on subject.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: norbi on July 03, 2005, 07:00:22 PM
Quote from: Dracodragon
I think you throw one diabolo up with the left hand, and do that for each one that comes to your left hand, while your right hand is kinda pushing them and catching the ones thrown.


yes
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Dracodragon on July 04, 2005, 01:58:02 AM
Thanks. I got the wrap start down. the rest will just be tons of practice to get the shuffles, synch and asynch going.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: nev on July 22, 2005, 12:12:42 PM
Hi - 2d shuff just seemed to click on wednesday and I was able to keep going for several minutes (no corrections at all though) until one of my old diabs finnally died (literally fell to bits).

My 2 new circus diabs arrived today and I've been practicing all morning (at work  :wink: ).  

Yesterday when I was unable to practice 2d I found a great tip for learning corrections (although I cant remember where I read it).  Basically you go back to 1d and get it spinning really fast then move right hand string over the left stick and pull down with right hand so diab raises in cradle.  From here you can poke and tap at the spinning diab with your right stick to see what effect tapping differant places will have (until you run out of spin).  Ive found this a great help this morning and am begining to be able to put this into practice and have had some success in correcting (although I miss the string a fair bit at the moment especially on the far cup).

Hope this helps anyone else to learn.

PS having looked at my shuffle vid taken on wednesday http://mynci200.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/diabolo/2dshuff.wmv  I noticed that I use my left hand a lot (although the diabs do speed up).  Is this a problem I need to address, or is it ok to use the left like this??

Also I have noticed this morning that I have a tendancy to make both diabs tilt away from me at the same time.  I think I am pushing slightly away from my body (out of line) with the right hand but cant seem to correct this action.

Any help / input on this would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Paul on July 22, 2005, 01:50:13 PM
Using your left hand a lot isnt really a problem. This is an a-synch shuffle. Ive found the diabs do speed up doing this but if you use an Synch shuffle (both hands up and down at the same time) you will gain even more speed from the shuffle.

dont worry too much about tilting both diabs away from you. With time your shuffle will become more steady. Its just a case of doing it in in a 2Dimension line but as said this comes with practise.

The tip for correcting I believe comes from Barnseys site 2diabolo.net I think?

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: TimEllis on July 22, 2005, 07:19:39 PM
I can get the diabolos to cycle 2-3 times, but then the loop seems to flatten out, and they slam into each other.  What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: barnesy on July 22, 2005, 08:23:53 PM
You don't seem to have read the rest of this thread!  :P  

The answers you seek are in there.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: tomangleberger on July 25, 2005, 12:31:08 AM
Quote from: barnesy
You don't seem to have read the rest of this thread!  :P  

The answers you seek are in there.



Barnsey's right. Reading this entire thread and downloading Barnsey's videos is a great way to learn. The video of him doing no tricks, just shuffling gave me my big break through. (Although I still move my left arm a lot more than he does.)

One thing that helped me early on was trying to get the onstring diabolo as far to the left as I could before I caught the second one. This helped the shuffle start and then helped to keep it from getting too small and collapsing.

Also, have you tried starting a different way? I couldn't get anything to work but the rocket start.

You'll get it, Ska Boss, hang in there! It took me so long to get a good run. Then a long time to get them consistently. Switching to G2s made everything so much better. What are you using?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: jakethecakebhs on July 26, 2005, 07:51:46 AM
i have been trying to learn with 2 diabolos and i have been trying the wrao method and the throw in  just about the wrao start i am having getting out of the wrap i have also made my own start similar to the rocket start but one is alread wrappedand a bit diferent any tips on ggettin out of the wrap start would be helpful
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Chiok on July 26, 2005, 12:49:05 PM
Apologies, but I don't quite understand what it is you're asking.  Maybe some punctuation would help.  If your problem is getting out of the wrap start, you just unwrap the diabolo but with a bit of downward force so that the other diabolo pops up and opens the shuffle up a bit more.

Chiok
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Bazz on July 28, 2005, 10:06:34 PM
Hi everyone :D

For what it's worth; I have just this evening figured out the 2D shuffle and how to start it and keep it going :wink:

These are my own findings; I used shorter sticks than normal, 330mm long whith these I seem to have so much more control than with the 420mm ones I have been using.

I used the wrap start as I found it easier to get more speed with the second Diabolo which seems to translate into more control, also having the first Diabolo spinning fast helps. to get the second Diabolo out of the wrap and into the shuffle I found making an clockwise circular gesture around the wraped Diab with the right stick and then pushing down sent the Diab on its merry way.
 
with my left hand I found that using it just once to hop the first Diab across helped to get the shuffle going propper, after this initial hop I kept the left hand still with the stick pointing forwards and horizontal.
To keep the shuffle going I just used my right hand (stick pointing inwards towards the Diabolos) first catching the Diab high and following it in a clockwise motion comming back up to catch the next Diab as it pops across.
As mentioned before this motion is the same as if you are drivind 1 Diab around you foot, you can also practice correction techniques while doing this.

I have been working on this for ages and was begining to get deppressed as I just could not make it work, I nearly took up knitting instead :oops:
All I can say to anyone trying to learn 2D is "Don't Give UP", you will have that eureka moment eventually, :wink:

Hope this makes sence :?:
Bazz :twisted:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: James on August 01, 2005, 08:42:42 PM
Hey,

I'm alright at starting and maintaining a 2 diabolo shuffle now... I can do some basic tricks sun and a very short sprinkler (but I can't corrent well yet).  I have two finesses, and a wider axle.  At the moment I'm using a normal axle with both.

My question is do you think it's easier to learn and do tricks with two finesses with or without wider axles, or does it not make a difference?  I'd like to buy another wider axle for the obvious finger grinding advantage, but if it makes it harder to do two diabolos then I'm not sure if it's worth it.

(And, sorry if this question has been asked before.  I searched and couldn't find anything that answered my question)


Thanks,
James
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Spooned on August 01, 2005, 08:54:51 PM
From what ive read, ( i dont own finesses) learning with finesses is harder if you have the money go out and buy two circus'. If you dont i dont really think it makes too much difference.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: jakethecakebhs on August 15, 2005, 05:36:28 AM
when correcting the tilt of my diabolos i just change the angle of which the diabolo hits the string to make the diabolo straight again  anyone else do this.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on August 16, 2005, 12:54:52 AM
Ocaisionally I use the string tocorrect, It depends on what kind of correction is required, speed of diabolos, my mood etc., Mattf used to correct this way exclusively but I think he taps/rubs now. I believe a lot of people use string correction when doing multiple high diabolo so its definately a usefull method.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: jakethecakebhs on August 16, 2005, 06:08:08 AM
kool
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: I_Ko on August 23, 2005, 11:15:45 PM
I have just learned to correct 2 diabolos, and therefore I have made some images, that hopefully 'kind of simple' describes howto!

The first problem is a skew diabolo, the first thing to make clear, is that you only need to learn howto correct in one dirrection! That is bacause you can always make the diabolos look like the image below!

(http://lolffs.users.whitehat.dk/Skew.jpg)

You need to hit with you right stick where the cross is placed! Then the diabolo should go back and be on line with the other! But the diabolo can tilt on this kind correction, and if it does then follow the next step.

Tilt

You need to think 'upsidedown' if the diabolo looks like the piture below, you would think that you should tab at the cup nearest to the ground (The one without a dot), but that is not the fact, you need to tab the cup with the dot! The way to do that is to 'toss' (Not really make a toss, but you need to correct the diabolo by let it glide down the right stick, so a little 'toss')
Then let the diabolo hit the right, twisted stick and then the tilt should be over!

(http://lolffs.users.whitehat.dk/tilt.jpg)


Tip:

Try to make the diabolo spin quite alot, that makes the correction easier! (But ofcourse it can be done with slow spinning diabolos, but they are far more sensetive).



This is one way in many ways, some perfer something that others dont! I hope that this helps someone with playing with 2 diabolos!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: J_J777 on August 24, 2005, 12:45:29 AM
I tap with the side of my stick, not the front of the stick...  also I do speed pulls and that will make it tilt fowards and to the right a bit to... just some helpful tips.

JC
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Will^ on August 24, 2005, 01:04:01 AM
Thanks theyre very helpful to me, although I'm still wondering this same as James. Is it easier to learn 2 with wide axels or without? Any comments appriciated.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on August 24, 2005, 02:13:33 AM
Quote from: Will^
Thanks theyre very helpful to me, although I'm still wondering this same as James. Is it easier to learn 2 with wide axels or without? Any comments appriciated.


Without I'd say.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Matt_ on August 24, 2005, 03:57:54 AM
i agree, with the wide axle the diabolo tends to shift more..and is harder to correct

it's even easier to learn on a Circus though, i think that fact has already been established...
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Andy S on September 04, 2005, 02:35:40 AM
Sorry if this has already been asked -- I think I read the whole thread but might have missed a page.

I started learning two using my Henry's Alu sticks, but my string just broke today.  Since the yellow stuff takes some use before it can do wrap starts, I picked up my wood sticks and realized that corrections were WAY easier.  They seem to have a much softer and more controlled touch.  So, my question.  Will correction skills transfer between sticks if I practice with the wood ones, or am I better off suffering with the alu's until I can control corrections?  Thanks for any help.

-Andy
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Punkerpanda on September 04, 2005, 02:47:53 AM
i'm not 100% certain, but i think once you learn corrections it's only a matter of getting used to the other sticks before you can do it.

it's the knowledge that counts, not so much the prop.  once you can do 2 diabolos, you can easily do it with any other 2.

the getting used to is only a matter of practice, but usually less than 15 mintes.

as i've said before, i'm not 100% certain if it works with corrections too, but i'd say practice witht he wooden once and then switch
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Chiok on September 04, 2005, 02:27:17 PM
I'll agree with the above.  If you've found something that makes it easier for you (in this case, using wooden sticks) then use the wooden sticks.  You'll get to grips with the corrections and get better so when you change to a different set of sticks, you'll be able to cope.  No use struggling doing stuff the hard way if there's an easier way.  It's all about transferrable skills (like a good 7b cascade will help with you 5club cascade).

Chiok
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Andy S on September 04, 2005, 02:30:41 PM
Thanks for the responses.  I not only got answers, I got the ones I wanted!  What a great world...

-Andy
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Chiok on September 04, 2005, 09:29:53 PM
A lil trick I picked up whilst at work,

If you have a question, keep asking different people till you get the answer you want.

Chiok
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: wua05 on October 06, 2005, 04:40:27 AM
okay. now if my throw is lucky i can probably do up to 10 shuffles maybe more going.  eventually, the diabolos are tilting.  i have no clue as to where to start to learn correcting.  ive read of many ways, but they sound confusing and i dont know how to apply them
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Valium on October 06, 2005, 01:41:08 PM
already seen this video?
http://diabolos.zonealta.net/videos/2d/divers/2dcorrections.avi
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: TimEllis on December 21, 2005, 10:04:00 PM
My 2d shuffle is going quite well.  I can start (with quick start from Diabology), correct, accelerate, and do a couple tricks (suns, vortex, etc).  But that's neither here nor there.  

When I am accelerating a diabolo, I find that it always turns clockwise.  I figured it must have been rubbing on a cup, but no matter what I try, it keeps rotating.   It really gets frustrating when I am constantly having to correct.  Why is this?  Any suggestions?  Thanks
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: fredo on December 21, 2005, 11:25:47 PM
Hi,

It's always as you said: Concerning longer lasting acceleration with a right backwrap(more than one pull), the diabolo turns clockwise and with a left wrap(right front) it turns anticlockwise. But take it positive, it's a possibility to correct a bit. It's better and easier if you use right backwrap to accelerate, because you can correct it very easily.

If you practise a bit you can even corecct while doing the acceleration, touch the cups with your stick tip (the back cup is easier). Like this you can compensate. Many examples e.g. in 3days 4nights and 7diabolos from arjan(great video, by the way).

Watch the correction video in diabology or have a look at the trick and video archive, there's a tutorial of the more popular way of correcting than in diabology. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but most people don't use the diabology ones)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Scooby on December 22, 2005, 03:21:13 AM
make shure that your shuffle isnt a really small 2high..

that was my problem when i started out..
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: looby on February 24, 2006, 02:23:31 PM
ok, quite a hefty bump I'll admit but I was wondering if the majority of you correct 2d whilst in the backwrap position tapping the cup closest to you (causing the diabolo to turn inwards).

I've used this technique ever since I felt the need to correct, building up my stamina in turn and found it to be a very easy technique to pick up.  It isnt ideal with issues of correcting the far cup but does anyone else naturally feel the need to skip the orthodox long winded sp? diabology corrections for this method?.  I would set up a poll but that would require a new 2d corrections thread, a definite no no unless I want a slap courtesy of a mod :idea:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Chiok on February 24, 2006, 07:17:10 PM
Ooo, mod slap, seán's got some mean ones on him I here...

As for the correcting, if it's spinning fairly slowly, then I'll usually correct by either just hovering (turns it clockwise slowly) or tap whilst hovering.  This normally sorts it out like you describe.  Also if it requires some serious correction, I'll backwrap it to stop it for a moment so I can sort it out.

However if it's spinning too fast and hovering will just cause more issues then I'll correct "diabology" style as you say.  But normally it's backwrapped.

Chiok
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: hollydominique on February 25, 2006, 07:57:39 PM
I managed to learn the shuffle in about a day using this technique.

Stand behing someone that can do 2 diabolo, so you can see the shuffle from thier point of view.

Watch the shuffle, and copy the RH movement whilst watching.

It seemed to imprint on my mind subconciously,

Hope it helps

Corrections GAH!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Valium on February 26, 2006, 12:14:21 AM
learn speed wraps before learning corrections, if you can speed up the diabs its easier to correct 8)  (especially the far cup corrections)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: bob on March 13, 2006, 03:57:59 PM
wow guys, i'm not much of a talker on this forum, but I visit a lot, and this thread has really helped me control 2D.
I just wanted to thank you guys,
especially sean's video helped me alot correcting the diabolo's.
thx guys
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: martijn on March 13, 2006, 04:15:17 PM
That's what we're here for, great you find it a usefull forum! Keep on practising :)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: hammerhead on March 14, 2006, 08:19:33 PM
just a quick question, when the diabolo is about to land on the string should my hand be moving up or down?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: -Leo- on March 14, 2006, 08:33:56 PM
As it hits the string push down.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: hammerhead on March 15, 2006, 06:56:44 PM
:) thanks
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: diplodicai on April 13, 2006, 08:16:42 PM
I'm just starting to get two diabolos running. Been trying for about two weeks with the wrap start. I'm suffering what appear to be the usual learning corrections problems, but what concerns me is that my shuffle appears to be a near flat ellipse. I'm doing a sync move that feels like its coming from my shoulders, and it results in a lunatic speed shuffle with no height. I've tried a few backwraps and catching it is an effort to say the least. Should it be more in flicking the wrists?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Chiok on April 13, 2006, 11:37:43 PM
I find this happens if I just use my dominant hand and really pump the shuffle causing an exaggerated motion of the diabolos which forms into a "flat ellipse" or otherwise described as a propellor spinning around.

Try using your wrists and shoulder together and make your stick rock in your hand like you're drumming.  Hopefully will sort it out.  Oh, and slow it down, it's not going nearly as fast as you think it is.  The more time your spend practising, the slower it'll appear.

Chiok
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: diplodicai on April 14, 2006, 12:24:47 AM
Cheers Chiok,

I figured I was doing something a little awry. I have the luxury of a gym the size of a badminton court so I can practice during my breaks. I've got the bug again. There goes the summer.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: OLOBAID on April 14, 2006, 12:50:34 PM
if your 2d shuffle is wide and flat try to point more to the right with your left sticktip - this way the string automatically pushes the diab to the right and you dont have to care very much about your left hand :)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mango on July 21, 2006, 01:19:18 AM
Quote
This is, I believe, because the wrap will try and undo itself with a turning motion. If you were to put a pecil in a wrap instead of the diabolo it would quickly flip verticly then fall out. because a diabolo is well ballanced it does the next best thing which is to turn in a circle.


it also happens with my G2s.  iv'e taken it apart and put it back together many times.  it use to say straight when i didn't take it apart that often.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: stillanoob on August 03, 2006, 09:17:32 PM
I'm sorry if this has been covered already, I have read threw alot of it and can't see it. I am having alot of trouble with the corrections, I didn't predict it would be so difficult; i'm practicing with 1 diabolo by tapping it with my stick but i'm having no such luck, I have tried by standing to the side of the shuffle and still having no luck.

When correcting by tapping the diabs is it on the string or in air?  :? (as you can see i'm really lost)
Is their any other way of correcting the diabs?
Can anyone give me any tips apart from practice  :?

Sorry for being a pain in the rear!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: looby on August 03, 2006, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: stillanoob
I'm sorry if this has been covered already, I have read threw alot of it and can't see it. I am having alot of trouble with the corrections, I didn't predict it would be so difficult; i'm practicing with 1 diabolo by tapping it with my stick but i'm having no such luck, I have tried by standing to the side of the shuffle and still having no luck.

When correcting by tapping the diabs is it on the string or in air?  :? (as you can see i'm really lost)
Is their any other way of correcting the diabs?
Can anyone give me any tips apart from practice  :?

Sorry for being a pain in the rear!


No problem my good man.  All I can say on the matter is to learn corrections whilst backwrapping a diabolo. It's probably not the 'by the book way', but you'll find you'll progress quicker with this method.

I just found the mid air corrections frustratingly difficult, I made no progress over 6 months so decided to go that way. Im not sure why I found them so difficult but it really was putting a brick wall in the way of moving on.  

Im not sure how confident you are with the shuffle but all you need to do is backwrap the diabolo turning outwards and tap the inside cup with your right handstick.  Increase/decrease the angle of the stick according to how much you want to turn the diabolo.  

The best of luck with it and let us know how you get on
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: nev on August 04, 2006, 12:44:31 AM
Quote from: stillanoob
When correcting by tapping the diabs is it on the string or in air?  :? (as you can see i'm really lost)
Is their any other way of correcting the diabs?
Can anyone give me any tips apart from practice  :?


Just before or as it hits the string - & try to pop the one you intend to correct a little higher out of the shuffle to give you more time.
There are many other ways (& pobably some yet to be discovered - anyone else using tapping whilst chinese whipping?) but the one you fisrt asked for help with is probably the most widly used and easiest - but if you find a way that works for you - go with it.
Learn where to tap the daib to correct what you want with one (get good spin & isolate it in a stall etc so you can tap away with the other stick)  At first with 2d it feels like you dont have much time to decide where to tap so you often choose wrong in the begining.  Learning this with time with one helped me a lot and soon becomes second nature with two.  As you get more confident in your 2d corrections you will find you have all the time in the world.  But yeah -practice

Hope this helps & welcome to the wonderful & frustraiting world of multiple diabolo.

Nev
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: LaNgErZ on August 05, 2006, 04:12:10 PM
yeah i do it the tapping it whilst in wrap way. i found it well frustrating doing it the normal way it just seemed to take me ages. i watched some japenese vid's with akihisa araki and yuki kojima. they just seem to get one in wrap and beat the sh*t out of it untill it's level....... works for me and besides they're sick anyway
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Jeppe on August 13, 2006, 06:26:56 PM
ive been doing 2d for 2 weeks now and i can do some corrections but i have some problems too.i do the right motion with my hand but i notice that the diabolo leans forwards or backwards and i do not know why.i dont even know how to correct it. :cry:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: frank0072 on August 13, 2006, 06:45:50 PM
@ jeppe: if your diabolo's tilt it can mean two things:
a. you don't have enough speed so there is not enough momentum to maintain level
b. your alignment is not good, your left hand is in front of your right or something like that.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Jeppe on August 14, 2006, 04:26:32 PM
i tested my position by putting my sticks head to point each other and they still leaned bac or forward.. :cry:  could some1 make tutorial about how to correct em and the right standing position :?:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Elmeri on August 14, 2006, 07:16:38 PM
you migth just upload a vid so we could see it... and anyway i allready explained in the finnish forum that when you have your sticks facing each other all the time you simply cant throw them forward or backwards.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Jeppe on August 14, 2006, 07:22:35 PM
i cant make video of it because i dont have camera..
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: nev on August 22, 2006, 03:59:29 PM
Firstly - sorry if this is the wrong topic to bring this up as its an advanced correction method, but it seemed the most appropriate.

Lately I've been doing a lot of my corrections by means of fans - (one out of line - enter a fan, correct & exit all straight again).  I find it helps with the 'flow' of things as it can be improvised into many long combo's etc when things go astray (whilst looking planned).

Anyone else correcting this way / thoughts?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: redmonkey on October 06, 2006, 11:19:26 PM
wow, i read this thread and then practiced the shuffle for like 2 hours straight.
i have it. i can do it about 20 times!!!!!

thanks

just for ur information, i found that using the left hand alot while practicing helps ;D
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: redmonkey on October 15, 2006, 11:17:16 AM
sorry, i am having problems with correcting

im using babache enrgy classic sticks but i also have a pair of unused henrys alu,, would correcting be easyer if i used the henrys??? ???
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Chiok on October 15, 2006, 01:28:10 PM
Corrections won't become easier with a different stick.  I would suggest you stick to what you've started with.  To correct, you need to be able to make your shuffle much larger to have time to correct.  This is where using the left hand is required as it pops diabolos around.  So don't fling the diabolo across with the left hand, but lift it up.

When you've got this popping right, then you can poke at it with your stick to turn and tilt the diabolo.  I think all of the points have been covered in this thread, searching within it will find it hopefully.

Chiok
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hansvh64 on October 15, 2006, 08:10:17 PM
Just started since a week with 2 diabolos....thought it would be easier. But I'm probably making all mistakes that every 2 diabolo starter does  :-\

I find it very difficult to get my left hand going...this is particular irritating since I'm left handed.

The right hand does everything an experienced 2 diabolo right hand should do.

But I won't give up and just keep on training every day.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on October 19, 2006, 01:51:18 AM
Hansvh64, are you as a lefthander learning to do 2d righthanded? If you just wrote it wrong then dont worry, your other hand comes into play sooner or later.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hansvh64 on October 19, 2006, 12:23:21 PM
Hansvh64, are you as a lefthander learning to do 2d righthanded? If you just wrote it wrong then dont worry, your other hand comes into play sooner or later.

No, as far as I understand I do the backwrap lefthanded with the sticks in my right hand. Then I take over my left stick again and I (try to  :P) speed up the second diabolo and I go to the shuffle.
I notice that my right hand is at that moment higher then my left hand and I automatically start to push the diabolo's with my right hand to the left.
This causes that both diabolo's go more and more to the left and since my left hand doesn't move at all...it stalls the shuffle after around 4 or 5 spins (I don't know the correct English word).

At the moment I'm trying to get both hands at the same hight and do nothing at all with both hands and see what happens then.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Christopher on October 24, 2006, 03:18:58 PM
how do you do a backwrap if both sticks are on your right hand?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on October 24, 2006, 05:21:12 PM
you mirror how you would do it if both sticks were in the left hand
(bear in mind were talking about wrapstarts and the backwrap used there not backwraps during an actual shuffle)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hansvh64 on October 24, 2006, 06:34:37 PM
you mirror how you would do it if both sticks were in the left hand
(bear in mind were talking about wrapstarts and the backwrap used there not backwraps during an actual shuffle)

Exactly!
I'm getting along a bit better now btw. Using the left hand more and more. Just need to train a lot to keep the diabolo's well in line...but I assume that's a matter of time and finetuning.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Roland on October 26, 2006, 03:34:27 AM
-What method you found easiest to learn (a right or left handed throw-in, a wrap start, or something else):
ummm...string wrap...
-How you first learned to correct.
tapping cups
-How to keep the shuffle going.
Huh?  indefinitely?
-How long it took you to learn to start.
hahaha...ummmm...well...actually not that long if considering hours, but correcting was hard.
-How long it took you to learn to correct.
a good long time interval
-Advice you were given that helped you.
umm...
String that is brand new is not the best for learning wrap-ins...
give the second diabolo decent spin so it doesn't start off unaligned too much...
when tapping cups you don't have to tap the edges, you can tap near the axle so far cup correction is simpler...
-Any other advice you would give.
I learned to shuffle with the left hand first (I'm a righty), which was easier but wasn't very circular or smooth.
The right hand will slowly creep in until it is mostly the right hand.
I dunno, string wraps just seem to make a lot more sense to me...
With tilt corrections I mainly change where the diabolo lands on the string...it is similar to the one diabolo tilt correction.
It is slow but subtle, and if maintained can pretty much keep a diabolo in correct tilt.
you can change direction (rotation?) by tapping only one cup, on the top or the bottom.  the bottom may seem awkward at first, but is actually pretty easy.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: ChrisC on November 01, 2006, 11:01:14 PM
I just wanted to thank everyone for all the tips in this thread, thanks to you guys I can now keep the shuffle going for over 14 minutes without any speed wraps.  Now if only I could get the hang of speed wraps...

You can also check out my practice log at the IJDB: http://www.jugglingdb.com/records/member.php?user=3888&trick=162 (http://www.jugglingdb.com/records/member.php?user=3888&trick=162)

Cheers.

Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Haukau on November 05, 2006, 11:10:35 AM
Something how helped me when i learned 2 diabolo shuffle was to look on this little tutorial,http://youtube.com/watch?v=COFB_A2Xa9w (http://youtube.com/watch?v=COFB_A2Xa9w), i don't understand the languages but its easy to see how to do. http://youtube.com/watch?v=COFB_A2Xa9w (http://youtube.com/watch?v=COFB_A2Xa9w)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: jacky on November 05, 2006, 11:48:45 AM
if you can understand what the video trying to say then i think you don't have to see the word..
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on November 06, 2006, 01:16:13 AM
just a personal thing but I kind of have a problem with holding the front cup when putting the wrap on (as in the youtube vid) It comes across awkward and fiddly. whenever teaching people wrap starts I show them the one where you hold the diabolo in the palm and lift it over (palm under means you don't have to let go from an awkward angle or let go and regrab). Personally I twist the diabolo on from behind, for me its fast and easy to get consistant.

The other thing to consider is that whilst a lot of people use a hovver to start 2d, an immediate backwrap could be easier to go with when first getting to grips with 2d. Hovvers are superior as you get speed up but you have to get the touch right, an extra thing to deal with. 

Really useful video though, many thanks to people who put such usefull videos up to help us all.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: redmonkey on November 08, 2006, 04:51:00 PM
after learning how to correct properly i thought i shoud write this

i only corect in a back wrap and i only ever touch the near cup
this method isnt mentioned in this tread i dont think
i can barely correct by tapping in the shuffle
for some reason it just doesnt work for me
just
another idea.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Haukau on November 12, 2006, 01:58:22 PM
after learning how to correct properly i thought i shoud write this

i only corect in a back wrap and i only ever touch the near cup
this method isnt mentioned in this tread i dont think
i can barely correct by tapping in the shuffle
for some reason it just doesnt work for me
just
another idea.
I also do so. Its easy, but when u got on a new fresh string its a bit hard :/
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on November 12, 2006, 03:30:33 PM
I correct this way mainly, I always have a nagging doubt that it looks and sounds a bit meh. Its probably the easiest way to correct but you need to be able to backwrap 2d and do hovers first.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: sage on November 23, 2006, 12:22:59 PM
i've been working on 2D since last friday.  i decided right away that throwing in wasn't for me and moved on the the wrap start.  yesterday i read through this whole thread and watched the videos and last night i managed to keep it going for about 10 shuffles.  many thanks to this forum and for all the REALLY helpful videos and explanations, that without, i would still be trying to figure out how to wrap the second diabolo properly.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Steve-O on December 21, 2006, 10:41:31 PM
The way I learned how to do 2 diabolos was to have my friend throw me in, then I got better at correcting so it would be easier to do it myself.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Jamie C on December 25, 2006, 09:01:17 PM
i took 2 weeks to learn 2 with a wrap start and i had a finesse and a small henrys jazz my mates leo and bill laughed but i did it
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: _Matz_ on December 25, 2006, 09:04:24 PM
I usually correct near cup, since never far one.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: scottp45 on January 01, 2007, 07:47:18 PM
when i do throw ins, i cant get any spin on the diab. could any1 plz give me a tuturial on how to do wrap starts in english plz? (the vid mentioned above is in dutch)

scott

 
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: _Matz_ on January 07, 2007, 04:58:52 PM
when i do throw ins, i cant get any spin on the diab. could any1 plz give me a tuturial on how to do wrap starts in english plz? (the vid mentioned above is in dutch)

scott

 
i'm going to make a 2d wrap tutorial start for you man :)

EDIT: here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGuaEoVYv6Y
I think you must watch fullscreen vrsion, or download video to see what i wrote there,
it was too small font.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Beni on January 21, 2007, 09:31:37 PM
Although I can correct and have been doing 2d for a while, I STILL have problems correcting tilt. I usually just tap and hope, but I've read alot about string corrections, which I can't do.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Chiok on January 22, 2007, 11:22:36 PM
The way I correct tilt is by popping the diabolo up and hitting the very side of the cup near the rim.  This normally puts it a bit out of twist so you have to correct again to get it straight.  The string rubbing thing doesn't work well for me as it causes the two diabolos to go out of line which is more of a problem than tilt in my opinion.

Failing that, go to someone who can correct to teach you, it's one of the "easiest" ways to learn it.  It's one of those pieces of "tacit" information as opposed to "explicit" so it's easier to be shown that to read it.

Chiok
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on May 18, 2007, 12:15:36 PM
Hey i bought a finger grind axle for one of my finesse.
But now i am wondering can i still lurn 2d with this?
I have one normal finesse and one with the new axle so it makes it heaver..

Beceause i realy want to start going into 2d..
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Marijn on May 18, 2007, 12:21:20 PM
Hey i bought a finger grind axle for one of my finesse.
But now i am wondering can i still lurn 2d with this?
I have one normal finesse and one with the new axle so it makes it heaver..

Beceause i realy want to start going into 2d..

why cant you just put the normal axle on it when you practise 2d??
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Alex! on May 18, 2007, 02:06:53 PM
Hey i bought a finger grind axle for one of my finesse.
But now i am wondering can i still lurn 2d with this?
I have one normal finesse and one with the new axle so it makes it heaver..

Beceause i realy want to start going into 2d..
When I was learning 2d I found it hard to learn with the wide axled Finesse because they are less stable and needed more correcting.
It would probably be best to learn the shuffle and corrections with regular axled Finesse and then change to wide axle when your more confident.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Matt D on May 18, 2007, 05:54:54 PM
If you don't want to change the axle every time you do 2d then you can use two different weighted diabolos. It is just a bit harder. I learned how to do 2d with my original circus diabolo (no weight kits) and Steve-O's finesse diabolo(also no weight kits). This makes it alot harder but it still is possible to learn how to do 2d with different diabolos.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: karl e dangerous on August 14, 2007, 08:15:47 PM
this is very helpfull but i still suck at 2d but i have only been tryin 2 days so am i crap or inpatient and if any one says crap ill break your sticks
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Nahxela on August 15, 2007, 02:37:46 AM
this is very helpfull but i still suck at 2d but i have only been tryin 2 days so am i crap or inpatient and if any one says crap ill break your sticks
You're most likely just a bit impatient at the moment.

You just need to take time to practice more.
After all, a diaboloist isn't made in one day ;)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Matt_ on August 15, 2007, 03:45:53 AM
this is very helpfull but i still suck at 2d but i have only been tryin 2 days so am i crap or inpatient and if any one says crap ill break your sticks

Give it at least a month, maybe two or six ;)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: karl e dangerous on August 15, 2007, 09:12:57 PM
i got two diabs goin for a bit today (left hand buterfly intro)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on August 16, 2007, 03:27:43 AM
(left hand buterfly intro)
My first gift to the diabolo world ;)
When you get the idea of the shuffle a bit better I'd suggest trying wrap starts, in the long run it's a more positive start. (though it's best to be able to start as many ways as you can.

Oh, and congratulations
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Asa (Formerly Legault) on September 09, 2007, 02:02:14 AM
I cant do the shuffle...
The one diabolo always tilts or misses...and i dont understand the starts...
if anyone has some advice for me on how to do the shuffle, or a good tutorial, or a good easy 2 diabolo start, with an explanation, please, please do tell.
Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on September 09, 2007, 02:22:33 AM
See above posts Legault

Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: TomMiller on September 11, 2007, 09:16:56 PM
I cant do the shuffle...
The one diabolo always tilts or misses...and i dont understand the starts...
if anyone has some advice for me on how to do the shuffle, or a good tutorial, or a good easy 2 diabolo start, with an explanation, please, please do tell.
Much appreciated.

with the start get one diab spining fast do a right backwrap give a litlle spin with your hand pull up with the right stick unwrap and start shuffling shuffling is hard to do
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Moabiter on October 10, 2007, 05:09:08 PM
i have got a problem that after about 6 or 7 succesful `orbits` my shuffle becomes taller and taller. I am trying not to use the right hand( i am lefty) so i am pushing only with the left. can somebody tell me what to change to keep shuffle more horizontal? :)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: TomMiller on October 13, 2007, 02:19:52 PM
well the shuffle gains speed so the speed makes the diabolos slip of the string easier
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Napo on October 13, 2007, 03:19:47 PM
Legauld, i am also trying these days to keep my diabolos shuffling, and here are some videos which will really help you.           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yQCNxEtc3k   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsQUiKB4sWA




Hope these will help you, good luck
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Asa (Formerly Legault) on October 19, 2007, 01:03:04 PM
Thanks, i finally got the shuffle idea and can do it pretty well now apart from corrections, mostly because all i have to use right now is my hated finesses, and when you do anything on a finesse it screws up >_< (Thats why i can only do grind and trapeze stall right now =(
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: William on October 19, 2007, 02:21:19 PM
A bad workman always blames his tools.  ;)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Asa (Formerly Legault) on October 19, 2007, 09:45:52 PM
Well, its not the fact that finesses screw up, its the fact that theyre super grippy, and grab ur string and feel heavy =(
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: TomMiller on October 19, 2007, 09:53:49 PM
What! finesses dont grab string and are not heavy when i use them it feels like nothing
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Matt D on October 19, 2007, 10:18:56 PM
Well, its not the fact that finesses screw up, its the fact that theyre super grippy, and grab ur string and feel heavy =(

Are you serious, have you ever tried two with harlequins? you use those husge things for a few hours and finesses feel like baby toys.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Nahxela on October 19, 2007, 10:21:58 PM
Are you serious, have you ever tried two with harlequins? you use those husge things for a few hours and finesses feel like baby toys.
One of my carbon sticks broke once because I caught a harlequin D:
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Shaun on October 20, 2007, 01:06:41 AM
Harlequins are good for learning 2d imo. I think because they're heavier, they give more feel.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: William on October 20, 2007, 01:12:39 AM
Yeah. If somebody throws one in for you, they shuffle themselves. Which could help get a feel for it.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: TomMiller on October 20, 2007, 10:30:02 PM
Finesses shuffle themselves too you know
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: larryone on November 01, 2007, 12:52:20 PM

Steve McGinley made a video of the best way to start 2 diabolos, power drill style:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzr6d6F_kIo
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: TomMiller on November 01, 2007, 05:14:37 PM
Yeh seen that
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on November 01, 2007, 09:35:42 PM
Yeh seen that

Ok, well is there anything else we should be aware you have seen before we waste your time?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: flamemercs on November 04, 2007, 12:59:32 AM
i am using the wrap start. when i unwrap the first pops up and then falls behind the second. i begin using a-synch but the second diabolo pops up and always lands on the first again.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: William on November 04, 2007, 01:30:16 AM
There is no need for starting a new thread.
There is a Whole 16 page thread on Starting and Correcting Two Diabolos. (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=9.0)

Its better to bump up a thread than start a new one.

Come to think of it have a look at Posting and You! (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Shaun on November 04, 2007, 04:33:34 AM
Posting and You! (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting)
maybe that could be compulsory viewing for all new comers.
sorry flamemercs, im not sure what your doing wrong. maybe try not doing the wrap start and get use to a 2d shuffle, so get one spinnig and throw the other up, catch it (in the right spot) and shuffle for as long as you can, then go back to the wrap start.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Duncan on November 04, 2007, 10:31:05 AM
Posting and you IS compulsory viewing. You figure out a way to get all people to read it, and we'll send you a bucket of candy ;)

Flamemercs, outside of saying "look at this thread", I suggest you try a synch shuffle - it will hopefully give you some success and a pattern to build on.

-Duncan
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: flamemercs on November 04, 2007, 11:45:51 AM
thanks ill try


---- now i unwrrap softer and it works but the diabolos unalign now
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Beni on November 04, 2007, 11:59:14 AM
Posting and you IS compulsory viewing. You figure out a way to get all people to read it, and we'll send you a bucket of candy ;)

Tape their eyes open, A Clockwork Orange style. Where's my candy? :D

As to the guy learning 2d; async and sync really isn't that big a deal with 2d, since most people do something in between. Just remember that if you push with your right hand, it will work.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: karl e dangerous on November 04, 2007, 09:08:35 PM
i taught myself the anti shuffle thinking it was the shuffle so i had to reverse my thinking and async shuffle (that is feedin back left handed right)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: William on November 05, 2007, 09:01:18 AM
Make a posting and you sticky. And quiz them later.
Those who fail will die not be allowed to post until they pass.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: karl e dangerous on November 08, 2007, 08:28:17 PM
was that aimed at me
Make a posting and you sticky. And quiz them later.
Those who fail will die not be allowed to post until they pass.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: bobbymoore1234 on November 14, 2007, 06:51:58 PM
ive been trying for ages to use two diabolos, no matter what i do or what books i buy they both just end up off the string. please any one help.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: karl e dangerous on November 14, 2007, 09:19:02 PM
no matter what i do or what books i buy they both just end up off the string. please any one help.

you put books on string??
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on November 14, 2007, 09:29:43 PM
Nice welcome there Karl.

Bobby could you give us a bit more information please (even a video clip)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: bobbymoore1234 on November 14, 2007, 10:13:28 PM
ok Ill try my best with the info
when i through the send diabolo on to the string it just drops straight to the bottom and knocking them both to the floor.
Ive tried spinning it but it just doesnt seem to work.  :'(
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Nahxela on November 14, 2007, 11:12:44 PM
ok Ill try my best with the info
when i through the send diabolo on to the string it just drops straight to the bottom and knocking them both to the floor.
Ive tried spinning it but it just doesnt seem to work.  :'(
What type of start are you doing? It sounds like you're doing some sort of toss/drop start.
Wrap starts are by far much easier to start off with if you're only beginning with 2 diabolos.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on November 15, 2007, 04:17:29 AM
Wrap starts aren't easier for everyone to learn first. I've found that lots of people find it easier to start with a throw start when they're first learning. But yes, do try both and see what works for you. I think there are a lot of subtleties to the wrap start that aren't immediately obvious to someone new to multiple diabolos.

Bobby, it is hard to say what the problem is from your description. If you could post a video we could probably help you quite quickly. Doesn't have to be a good quality video and you could use a site like youtube or http://www.mediafire.com to upload it.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: bobbymoore1234 on November 16, 2007, 09:16:20 PM
hey,
sorry i havent really got the gear to make a video.
 is it going to make it harder for me  if i have two different sized diabolos? which i have!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Nahxela on November 16, 2007, 09:48:53 PM
hey,
sorry i havent really got the gear to make a video.
 is it going to make it harder for me  if i have two different sized diabolos? which i have!
Yes, it'll probably make a large difference if you have two different sized diabolos and you're trying to learn 2d.
You should probably get another diabolo of one you already posess, or get two new ones that are (perhaps) better than the ones you have right now.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: bobbymoore1234 on November 16, 2007, 11:59:32 PM
ok that makes sense. how much would you recomend i spend? 
 the ones i have were £20 each. the shop i that is close to me doesnt really give much variety.
Does any1 know any websits to buy them from apart from amazon?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Nahxela on November 17, 2007, 07:20:33 PM
ok that makes sense. how much would you recomend i spend? 
 the ones i have were £20 each. the shop i that is close to me doesnt really give much variety.
Does any1 know any websits to buy them from apart from amazon?
20 Pounds seems pretty fair for a decent set of diabolos.

You're lucky, I assume you live in Europe because you show prices in pounds :(
You get all the good stores -_-


www.firetoys.com is really great, they have a ton of diabolos among other juggling props
If you don't like that, then you can check out the Gears section in the forum and find the archive of websites.

www.jugglingdb.com is another database you can use for finding vendors in your area and their websites
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: karl e dangerous on November 17, 2007, 07:21:49 PM
ok that makes sense. how much would you recomend i spend? 
 the ones i have were £20 each. the shop i that is close to me doesnt really give much variety.
Does any1 know any websits to buy them from apart from amazon?
if you live  in England oddballs is a great shop to buy diabolo gear from check out  www.oddballs.co.uk
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Midoryu on November 26, 2007, 02:28:37 AM
Hey everyone.
I've just started two, and when I'm shuffling, one diabolo goes forward and the other goes backwards (-------`---------.-----) (the `represents the diabolo going forwards and the , represents the diabolo going backwards; this is an aerial view!).  How do I correct that?  Help!  (By the way, the ------- is the string!)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Duncan on November 26, 2007, 07:40:55 AM
By forwards and backwards, are you referring to tilt? Aside from telling you it's a bit of practice, this might help (your problem and maybe your future problems):

As for correction: I tell people to learn what effect rubbing different bits of the diabolo cups has on their angle, then try to apply that to two, hitting/rubbing against the diabolos as they pass down the right hand side (assuming right handedness).   These points may help:
Touching the top or bottom of a cup will make it turn left or right (viewed from above).

Touching the sides will make it lean forwards or backwards.

It's easier to reach over the diabolo, so I recommend touching the top of a cup, or reaching over to touch the side of the cup so the diabolo doesn't miss the string.

Opposites can be helpful - remember that touching the top of the far cup is the same as touching the bottom of the near cup, etc.

With practice, all of this becomes much more subtle - I do most corrections with one touch somewhere between the top and the side of a cup.

There are still times with 2 where you need to correct like you would correct one.  When both diabolos look straight, but are not in line with the string, you probably need to move your right hand backward or forward

Hopefully this is what you're referring to,

-Duncan
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Midoryu on December 04, 2007, 03:42:35 AM
Sorry, Duncan.  I know what tilting is.  What I mean is, the diabolos could all be parallel, but as I juggle, the diabolo on my left-hand side goes forward (without tilting or not being perpendicular with the floor) or AWAY from me.  Then, when the diabolo from my right-hand side goes under, IT goes away from me.  So, what I end up with is my left-hand side diabolo going away from me and my right-hand side diabolo coming towards me.  Hence the drawing (-------`-----------,-------)  (----- being the string and ` and , being the diabolos.  The ` is going away from me and the , is going towards me.)  Also note that the string in between the ` and the , is slanted from my top left to my bottom right.  Regardless, thanks for the info, Duncan!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: cpai on December 04, 2007, 06:02:59 AM
I stop that with a backwrap. It basically resets the shuffle.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Midoryu on December 08, 2007, 04:33:53 AM
What's a backwrap??
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: William on December 08, 2007, 09:32:49 AM
Please have a search and read through this thread.


A backwrap is wraping the string around one diabolo in the shuffle. Most commonly to attain speed by doing chinese whips, hover or other ways.


Bloody
Amateurs
Cannot
Keep
Writing
Repetitive
Annoying
Posts
Search please
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Tomko401 on January 26, 2008, 07:48:09 PM
I need help with starting 2d.  I know you can wrap the second diabolo on the string, but from there the secod diabolo falls down on the string.  Need help
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Duncan on January 26, 2008, 07:54:20 PM
Have a peek through this thread (I merged yours with the Starting and Correcting thread), Tomoko. It's got plenty of hints and answers.

From your information, you might not be pulling the diabolo to give it any speed and are just letting it fall down the wrap. You could also try using a throw start instead of wrapping. In any case, check out the first posts in this thread.

-Duncan
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Tomko401 on January 27, 2008, 04:30:44 AM
Thanks.
I think its when I get it in the wrap, I start to try and get it spinning, and it falls.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on January 27, 2008, 06:07:54 AM
You might see a lot of diaboloists 'hovering' the diabolo, they learn this after they get a decent start and feel for 2d usually. Just try and give a gentle spin (just enough that it is stable). Then move your hand to the right (stops slippage) and unwrap (better to think of it as an exit from a trapeze rather than as an unwrap) pretty rapidly before the diabolo falls too far.
Keep at it. 2d is not the easiest thing in the world to learn but it is well worth the effort.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Nahxela on February 12, 2008, 11:29:16 PM
Perhaps your string is a tad new, and is really slippery?
I think that the Orange UV Fluo string is incredibly slick when you first use it, and it's hard getting a good grip with it (heck, you can even do a triple-wrapped acceleration, and it'll still be fine).

Maybe giving a strong spin with your hands directly after you wrap it will help, although I'm not sure how hard you're spinning it at your start.

Otherwise, you could use a different start, since not every start is universally the easiest.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on February 13, 2008, 03:19:11 PM

Maybe giving a strong spin with your hands directly after you wrap it will help, although I'm not sure how hard you're spinning it at your start.

Otherwise, you could use a different start, since not every start is universally the easiest.

If you spin it harder than it needs will the diabolo not be encouraged to slide down the string?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Nahxela on February 14, 2008, 10:34:27 PM
If you spin it harder than it needs will the diabolo not be encouraged to slide down the string?
What I had thought was the diabolo didn't have enough spin to start with, which may have been the cause of Tomko's troubles, but it was only a hypothetical solution
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: fzzyrn on February 15, 2008, 11:15:02 PM
i've been trying to learn corrections. String corrections don't seem to be working, so i thought i'd try wrapped corrections. The problem is, when i try to do a wrap, it wraps around both diabs, not just the one i want to wrap. the same thing happens when i try to do a trapeze.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on February 16, 2008, 12:32:23 AM
String correction isn't that easy and is really only worth mentioning as something that is possible rather than as a desirable first way of correcting.

As for backwraps and stopovers (pretty much the same thing) sounds like you are either trying to apply the wrap like you would in 1d or you are making too big a motion (probably too slow) without seperating the diabs enough. You'll be glad of the ability to wrap both when you come to learn BW sprinklers.

For now I highly suggest sticking with tap corrections since all you really need to start on that is a shuffle you can change the shape of (popping one up to give you the time).

for backwraps and stopovers check out
http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=73
http://www.2diabolo.net/?section=5
http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=53 (Martijns vid should give you an idea)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Scarp on March 17, 2008, 11:18:15 AM
I see this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yQCNxEtc3k

but i dont understand how he do: Correcting 2 Diabolo (1:39) the first one

anyone have other video?
cause i cant understand it by that video =S

lol,need help :P

Mod edit - moved here because it fits better.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: eminem2012 on March 23, 2008, 03:04:34 PM
please could someone help me with my 2 diabolo shuffle
i am right handed and when i use my right hand to push down sometimes they seem to shuffle in the oppisite direction help!
and there seems to be minimal space between the 2 diabolos
Thanks
PP
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Asa (Formerly Legault) on March 23, 2008, 04:59:23 PM
Yeah, this is how i started as well.
If your using a floor start, try using a wrap or throw start.
The problem with your movement could be one or more of many things:
If you are holding your right hand even, or higher then the left, hold the left higher then the right(Slightly)
Make sure you are shuffling to the beat of your diabolo's landing.
Also, observe your hand movement. - Your right hand should be making a clockwise circle to push the diabolo under, not a counterclockwise which would push it across.

Check all these things and try to work on the movement.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on April 08, 2008, 12:56:31 PM
Hello, I recently lurned the shuffle but can't correct yet.

But what is the reason that when i start the shuffle the 2 diabolos are straight so no need to correct them first. But after like 10 shuffles they start to turn so they need corrections. What is it that it makes them to go wrong?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on April 08, 2008, 01:18:15 PM
When you begin learning the 2D shuffle, it can be quite difficult to keep the diabolos in the same position. This is mainly caused by incorrect hand movements. Make sure your right hand only moves up, down, and left/right- not forward or backward. If your hand moves forward or backward while shuffling, the string will contact your diabolos' cups, and tilt or turn the diabolo.

As for corrections, once the diabolo you want to correct hits your right string after leaving the left string, as you push downward with your right stick to maintain the shuffle, quickly turn your right stick inwards to face the diabolo. Then while you're pushing the diabolo downward, use the end of your stick to touch the diabolos' cups in the suitable area.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on April 08, 2008, 03:30:30 PM
Alright thanks Aaron,

Do you also know what I am doing wrong if I try to tap the cups and then my diabolo goes of the string?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on April 09, 2008, 07:14:18 AM
It's because you aren't making the right movements to correct. Correcting should be a subtle movement, try not to over-do the correcting motion or things will go flying. Simply practice until you can correct without disrupting the shuffle movement, and figure out how to position yourself to do just that.

I personally make far-cup corrections by turning my right stick all the way to the right, then just reaching down- because that's the movement that worked for me.

Correction styles vary from juggler to juggler, so practice a little and the movements will come to you.
It just takes a little patience, diabolos' flying away and so on are all part of learning 2D.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Collin on April 12, 2008, 05:47:37 PM
I have 2 large bearing diabolos, and I control them this way:

For turns, I do that wrap/hover acceleration, then tap the cup. for tilt, I do a stick stall with the one diabolo that Doesn'tneed correction, then I move that part forward, so the diabolo on the string tilts as if using 1 diabolo. Hoorays!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on April 13, 2008, 01:15:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=512-oAmgY4k

Thats a realy good video of correcting 2d!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on April 13, 2008, 04:01:05 AM
No offense, but that video wasn't very helpful...
The one above was more understandable.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on April 14, 2008, 01:12:29 PM
Hey whats better.

Lurning correcting or accelerations first?

Btw a tip for corrections i read somewhere here on the forums. Try some corrections out with 1diabolo when you are doing over the foot orbits you then may found out how the diabolo tilts if you tap on diffrent places.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Scarp on May 01, 2008, 11:49:47 PM
thanks for the tutorial!!
this helps me alot  :D
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on May 02, 2008, 12:56:16 AM
Hey whats better. Lurning correcting or accelerations first?
Good grief! Once OK, twice fine... but day after day after day. It's "learning". And this is directed at many more people than just you. :)

See that little button called spell-check at the bottom right of the posting screen?

In answer to your question: probably corrections, but to get good at corrections you're going to have to have some speed, so you'd be best to work on both at the same time once you get comfortable with the most basic corrections.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Lord92 on May 02, 2008, 05:34:47 PM
hi, first i will say that i'm from austria (not australia, lol) and my english is not very good.

I try to ply 2 Diabolos for a week, the start (i'm doing the wrap start) is no problem.

But i'm not able to correct the diabolos.

I have tried to do the correction which is shown in the video above, but it will not work, are there other ways to correct the diabolos???


greez lord92
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Scarp on May 03, 2008, 10:45:31 AM
Lord92 see the other tutorial i post up there ^

now my shuffle is + -
now how to do that crazy chinese whip accelaration with 2 diabolos?
any tutorial plz? ???
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: William on May 03, 2008, 01:01:04 PM
Please use the search button, Scarp.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on May 04, 2008, 10:29:21 PM
hi, first i will say that I'm from Austria (not Australia, lol) and my English is not very good.

I try to ply 2 Diabolic for a week, the start (I'm doing the wrap start) is no problem.

But I'm not able to correct the diabolo's.

I have tried to do the correction which is shown in the video above, but it will not work, are there other ways to correct the diabolos???


greetz lord92

Yea you can also correct while you have one diabolo wrapped. Maybe someone here can give some explanation about that one.

Good grief! Once OK, twice fine... but day after day after day. It's "learning". And this is directed at many more people than just you. :)

See that little button called spell-check at the bottom right of the posting screen?

Sean.. Yea Ben told me about that little button on the bottom right  ::)

I really didn't see it in all my posts but I will use it now =) Thanks anyways.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Lord92 on May 05, 2008, 03:06:27 PM
Yea you can also correct while you have one diabolo wrapped. Maybe someone here can give some explanation about that one.

I know i've tried it but it will not work.

at the moment i correct the diabolos with grinds.


greez Lord92
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on May 05, 2008, 03:14:13 PM
I know i've tried it but it will not work.
No, it won't work without studying some people doing it in person, studying some videos, experimenting lots yourself, and practicing endlessly. It's one of those things that takes time, just the right touch, and that you never stop improving.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: The_Matrix on May 05, 2008, 08:58:42 PM
Hello
This is something i have tried when i can and when i first get it going (I use the wrapping method)
it either:

Slips down the string (Crashing into the other one)
Or goes on the wonk so much it is facing the other way (Eventually crashing into the other one)
so please tell me what I'm doing wrong

Thanks

Tris (The_Matrix)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: spinnin pig on May 05, 2008, 09:05:28 PM
string that is more worn is is better for the wrap start when youre first learning as it gives you more time to pass the stick over and start tugging
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on May 16, 2008, 11:21:42 AM
How many of you people actualy correct the diabolo while it has a wrap on it?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Marijn on May 16, 2008, 12:21:40 PM
Me, it's the fastest why I guess to tap the cups while accelerating. I prefer to correct them with chinese acceleration though (which also is with a wrap).
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Scarp on May 17, 2008, 09:13:16 PM
Please use the search button, Scarp.
i don't found it =/

can someone give me a tutorial with 2 diabolos basic tricks???
i'm trying s-fan,it looks easy :D (but a tutorial will help,cause i move my arms radomly ???)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Eric Moffett on May 17, 2008, 09:21:09 PM
How many of you people actualy correct the diabolo while it has a wrap on it?

I do probably 60% of the time. It kills two birds with one stone.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: JimmyCords. on May 19, 2008, 11:13:32 AM
Ok, its time for me to share my 2 diabolo experiences (i dont have that many, only been at it for about 2-3 weeks).
I am learning with 2 finesses and a pair of henry's alus. I was relatively fast at starting 2d. Within about an hour or so of receiving my second diabolo i could shuffle for about 10 catches. To start off I just used the throw-in method using a top pinch grip. From there I went to the wrap start and the fast start. I had got them in a few days. Then I learnt the anti-fast start, that took a while longer about 1 week. Now im learning corrections, ive got accelerating pretty much down pat. Not much useful information there, but I thought i'd share my experiences.
p.s. the spell checker tried to change diabolo to diabolic? silly, ignorant spell checker....
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Diabolo Bro on May 20, 2008, 08:30:17 PM
 ???  :-X  :D  ;D  >:(  ;)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Asa (Formerly Legault) on May 22, 2008, 12:10:12 AM
I do probably 60% of the time. It kills two birds with one stone.

Same here, also i do vortex corrections.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Collin on May 24, 2008, 09:09:01 PM
tilt towards you: -----------  Tilt away: --------X-                X=where to hit/tap/stroke
                        ---------                   --------\
                          -----                        -----   \
                            --|                           -       \
                          ----|-                       -----      \
                        ------|--                   ---------     \
                       -------X---                -----------     \
                                |
                                |
                                |                 
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on May 28, 2008, 06:46:27 PM
tilt towards you: -----------  Tilt away: --------X-                X=where to hit/tap/stroke
                        ---------                   --------\
                          -----                        -----   \
                            --|                           -       \
                          ----|-                       -----      \
                        ------|--                   ---------     \
                       -------X---                -----------     \
                                |
                                |
                                |                 

Thanks that was what I am looking for! I tried to do it this way. But that realy diddn't helped...

                        -----------  Tilt away: ----------                X=where to hit/tap/stroke
                        ---------                   --------\
                          -----                        --x--   \
                            --|                           -       \
                          --x-|-                       -----      \
                        ------|--                   ---------     \
                       ----------                -----------     \
                                |
                                |
                                |                 
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: William on May 29, 2008, 12:11:00 AM
A problem could be you are using bent sticks. ;)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on May 30, 2008, 04:30:11 PM
Not mine :P

Hey I got a big problem with accelerations! And i could realy use some feedback!


The point is.. When i do the wrap start and I unwrap my diabolo and wrap the other one to do one pull. I can do it untill the pulling part so it gets some speed. Then I want to unwrap it but the problem is.. When I do that uhm.. My stick kinda gets stuck in the other string? It will unwrap it but not so smooth! Its so annoying!

I hope someone of you has experienced this so you know what I mean..

-Ramon
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: -Leo- on May 30, 2008, 04:57:00 PM
Give it a nice big forceful whip downwards, maybe turn your stick so it's facing the axle a little more aswell -I guess that might help. But in general; a nice powerful unwrap won't get tangled.

-Leo
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on May 30, 2008, 06:33:39 PM
Give it a nice big forceful whip downwards, maybe turn your stick so it's facing the axle a little more aswell -I guess that might help. But in general; a nice powerful unwrap won't get tangled.

-Leo

Thanks Leo! That big forceful whip downwards thats something I don't really like:P Because then my other diabolo fly's out of my string lol. But that turning my stick facing the axle helps aswell! Practicing it!

I'm starting to come somewhere!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on June 02, 2008, 01:00:45 PM
Learning the unwrapping motion to your own pace is necessary to get continuous backwraps down, and the downward motion that throws the other diabolo off the string is part of it.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on June 05, 2008, 11:48:56 AM
I just can't correct the diabolo when its tilting to far forward or backwards..
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Adamer15 on June 05, 2008, 11:54:22 AM
I just can't correct the diabolo when its tilting to far forward or backwards..

Same problem here
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on June 05, 2008, 12:29:12 PM
I still can't get far cup line corrections consistent. It takes multiple shuffles to get a diabolo aligned, by which time the other one is offset, I'm using the Diabology method of correction, with wide axle Suns and Flys.

Help?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on June 05, 2008, 03:46:39 PM
My stick kinda gets stuck in the other string?
So, you're moving your hand forwards during the unwrap. Keep it inline or move it back slightly to avoid catching the string.

The secret to getting wraps and continuous wraps solid (with 2d) is starting the wrap before the diabolo has even left the left string and then dampening the resulting lift with the left hand for the other diabolo. When I do continuous 2d wrap accelerations, the diabolos never leave the string. If you're trying to catch one in midair (which is necessary with 3d usually), you have to figure out where it is in the air each time... and that can get ugly.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on June 05, 2008, 09:15:02 PM
Wow thanks Sean! I will try that!
I even don't have problems anymore that my stick gets stuck into the string thanks to Leo!
But I try to do each 2nd or 3rd run a wrap first before I try continuous backwraps.
But yea my accelerations are getting better now my corrections..

Does anybody knows if there is a video tutorial of correcting in a wrap?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Diabolo Dodson on June 05, 2008, 09:23:33 PM
Does anybody knows if there is a video tutorial of correcting in a wrap?
Its just the same as when your shuffling you tap the same places.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on June 06, 2008, 11:34:20 AM
So, you're moving your hand forwards during the unwrap. Keep it inline or move it back slightly to avoid catching the string.

The secret to getting wraps and continuous wraps solid (with 2d) is starting the wrap before the diabolo has even left the left string and then dampening the resulting lift with the left hand for the other diabolo. When I do continuous 2d wrap accelerations, the diabolos never leave the string. If you're trying to catch one in midair (which is necessary with 3d usually), you have to figure out where it is in the air each time... and that can get ugly.

Sean when you say to wrap the diabolo before it has even left the string do you mean that you wrap one accelerate it unwrap it let it shuffle once and then do the same? Because I can't wrap a diabolo unwrap it and then right away wrap the other one because that one is impossible to wrap before it has left the string.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on June 06, 2008, 12:34:57 PM
...Because I can't wrap a diabolo unwrap it and then right away wrap the other one because that one is impossible to wrap before it has left the string.
That is what you are aiming for. You will have to do some serious dampening with your left hand and unwrap using the correct motion with you right hand for it to be possible. It's something you'll have to develop over a long time.

Watch some of Priam's old 2 diabolo clips (http://priampierret.free.fr/artofdiabolo/2diabolos/2diabolos_en.php).
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on June 07, 2008, 12:53:17 PM
Thanks Sean! I will work on that!

Hey I do the wrap start with my right hand, so I have the sticks in my left hand its not the usual way but its not that much of a big issue right?

I'm making some progress btw.. But I can't get far cup corrections right can't reach it can't tap it I dunno just can't do it Grrr!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on June 08, 2008, 02:28:08 PM
Hey I do the wrap start with my right hand, so I have the sticks in my left hand its not the usual way but its not that much of a big issue right?
That is the usual way, but you can do it either way without a problem.
I'm making some progress btw.. But I can't get far cup corrections right can't reach it can't tap it I dunno just can't do it Grrr!
That just takes time and practice. An alternative in the meantime is to correct using the underside of the near cup. Get your stick under the cup as it falls and rub it. That's what I usually do with 3 diabolos since I find turning with the far side quite difficult to pull off consistently.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on June 11, 2008, 02:57:52 PM
Alright thanks Sean! I'm doing good at the moment I can accelerate but not continuous yet I have a view orbits between. The correcting in the wrap I let that left behind for a while.

But one question what do you people suggest for 2d? Long or short string?
Or is it a question of own taste?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Aaron Z on June 14, 2008, 07:12:42 PM
Finally perfected my corrections, thanks, Diabology!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on June 26, 2008, 12:47:33 PM
If you need to correct the near cup and you tap it but then the diabolo starts tilting is the reason of this that you are tabbing to hard?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on June 26, 2008, 02:52:16 PM
Either you tapped it too hard or you tapped in in the wrong place. I'd think of it as rubbing more than tapping. You want to have sustained minor contact rather than one abrupt hit. Also remember that  the aggression of your corrections has to be proportional to the speed your diabolos are going. Fast spinning diabolos are much easier to correct.

As for the string length - whatever you are comfortable with.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mykill on July 22, 2008, 01:46:32 AM
i can already do 2 diabolo quite smoothly and i can corrections fine.
i cannot accelerate the diabolos using backwraps continuously...
every time i wrap one and unwrap the other flies far towards the right (im a rightie) and i barely catch it. help? what am i doing wrong?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: JJesse on July 22, 2008, 09:23:01 AM
It's all about PRACTISING. You must find the correct power when unwrapping, and how wide you hold your hands. For me, it's easier to make a wrap, then accel for about 5 snaps, and then unwrap and wrap the next diab. I still cant do a one snap continuous accel ::)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mykill on July 23, 2008, 12:03:43 AM
alright thanks
most of the time i can do it with pulls just not good at continuously doing it.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mike. on August 16, 2008, 09:27:23 PM
tim ellis has a great starting method called the "fast start" it worked for me in like my first day of 2d, look up timellis on youtube and look at his 2d vid
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on August 17, 2008, 02:23:25 PM
2D is driving me nuts! I feel like giving up on it..

I can do the wrap start, I can do the shuffle, I can do accelerations, I can do front cup corrections. I CAN'T do tilting corrections and I CAN'T do far cup corrections!

Thanks to this I cannot learn any tricks! Because after a while I must correct it!

Please help me I'm desperate  :(
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Akse on September 04, 2008, 03:34:36 PM
I started with normal wrap start. I think it's the easyest way. Corrections were the hardest thing for me.
I learned them by just doing the 2d shuffle and waching tutorials ;).

(That was short ;D)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mykill on September 05, 2008, 12:26:08 AM
^^
you can always try to use your left hand (righties) and give it a little toss. when i do that it gives me a few more split-seconds to tap the cups. as for the far cup instead of tapping the other end try tapping the far cup near the axle. then work your way out. ive been doing 2D solid for about a month and i still cant always tap the very far cup.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mike. on September 18, 2008, 03:00:34 AM
. I CAN'T do tilting corrections and I CAN'T do far cup corrections!



     

i find that kind of grinding the diabolo an its way to the right string is a addaquit (?) method of correction
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on September 30, 2008, 05:47:04 PM
Alright I can do front and far cup correction on the left side when correcting a direction.. I mean the diabolo turns right or left.

But I still can't figure out tilting corrections..

Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mykill on September 30, 2008, 10:49:45 PM
tap the sides?
when i do corrections i toss my diabolo a bit high so it hovers longer giving me to tap accordingly. try that? you just need an extra split second :D
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: nev on October 01, 2008, 09:30:57 AM
Practice where to tap with one diabolo - get it spinning and then put the dominant string over the outside of the other stick (or do a stopover) so that you are able to touch the spinning diabolo with the dominant stick - gives you loads of time to work out where to tap and what effect it has.
(or you can just spin on open string and use your fingertip)

Simple rules are (when viewed from above) for right handers

near cup top or far cup bottom will turn anticlockwise.
far cup top or near cup bottom will turn clockwise.
near cup right or far cup left will tilt towards you (like going into vertax)
far cup right or near cup left will tilt away from you.
(opposites have the same effect)

you can control both tilt and turn by tapping somewhere between the top and sides.

One you learn where to tap like this - the rest is just practice with two (it takes a while to get your brain to work fast enough to work out where you need to tap)
It becomes second nature after a while and you will be doing dual corrections with single taps without even thinking about it.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on October 02, 2008, 06:44:22 PM
@ Nev and Mykill

Thank you alot!

Mykill thanks, when I do the shuffle now it goes so fast that I don't even see what I'm doing! But I can just give the diabolo a little tiny bit more lift and i can see the diffrence between it and I notice that I got more time and my brains follow the diabolo on some sort of close up look haha :D

And Nev Thanks! I tried what you said first of practicing corrections with 1 diabolo on the string on your way by putting the dominant string voer the outside of the string this really helped me more then trying it in openstring it doesn't works that good. Your way just worked perfectly! I found out where to tap for side corrections and tilting!

Now I'm practicing it in the shuffle and can already see in 3 days that my shuffle keeps going on longer and longer!

-Ramon
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: MasterKatra42 on October 06, 2008, 02:09:56 PM
Jeff was giving me some advice related to physics that was really helpful.  I know I'm new, and I don't know how thorough everyone is, but I really can't look through all pages of the topic to see if this has already been mentioned.

You can think of your diabolo like two wheels of a car on a road.  If you want to go to the left (counter clockwise), put the brakes on the left side, i.e. tap the left side.  Conversely, if you want it to go to the right (clockwise) tap the right side.

Of course, this applies only to the X axis, not Y.

... man, I need to learn terms so I don't sound like an idiot all the time.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on October 13, 2008, 02:08:49 PM
2D is driving me nuts! I feel like giving up on it..

I can do the wrap start, I can do the shuffle, I can do accelerations, I can do front cup corrections. I CAN'T do tilting corrections and I CAN'T do far cup corrections!

Thanks to this I cannot learn any tricks! Because after a while I must correct it!

Please help me I'm desperate  :(

HAHAHA I'm sorry but I just have to qoute myself!

A week after I said this I started trying it again and again and somehow I just got the feeling! And now I can correct it! Next step --> Learning tricks!'

Just don't give up people! This took me a year.. And one thing.. Don't practice it to much! Give it a break for a while because you keep trying to correct on the same way and if you stop trying for a while and you come back to it later you start from the start and now you might be able to get the feel. =)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: dan.ballarin on October 29, 2008, 05:14:38 PM
I am definitely no pro, as I have just learned my first few 2d tricks but I found that tapping to correct was extremely hard because of the timing and aim.  I found that if I launched the diab higher and focused on barely touching any cup, but followed the trajectory helped.  What really messed me up was trying to figure out which and where to touch it.  By the time I figured it out, the diablo was too messed up.  So I needed to learn to follow the path of the diablo first.  I only tapped the top near cup even if it was the wrong direction.  I also never focused on catching the diablo at first.  These things allowed me to focus on one thing at a time.  Then it was easier to just figure out which cup to tap after I could successfully tap the cup.  Breaking this into individual components for you to learn is the way to go.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Midoryu on October 30, 2008, 05:15:57 AM
Fast note here:

I find that if your diabolos are tilting towards you, you have to walk very fast forwards and stop abruptly to use the momentum to un-tilt them.  If they're tilting forwards, walk very quickly backwards and stop abruptly to make the momentum un-tilt the diabolos.

On to my every-count sun...
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on October 30, 2008, 09:44:24 AM
If yur struggling alot with 2d corrections take a break! And come back to it later.. It took me a year to get it under control.. But when I took a break I just had the feeling!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: kurrygrodan on November 02, 2008, 10:18:02 AM
when I'm doing 2 diabolos i have a stupid problem i can do the wrap start and all the starts and the shuffle and correcting them.

but there is one thing i can't do it's when the front cup(the cup that isn't near me) starts leaning down, when i try to correct it it just starts to lean more down... and when I'm doing 2d synch shuffle the starts to lean with the front cup down.
what's the stupid problem?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on November 02, 2008, 11:02:45 AM
when I'm doing 2 diabolos i have a stupid problem i can do the wrap start and all the starts and the shuffle and correcting them.

but there is one thing i can't do it's when the front cup(the cup that isn't near me) starts leaning down, when i try to correct it it just starts to lean more down... and when I'm doing 2d synch shuffle the starts to lean with the front cup down.
what's the stupid problem?

I had the same problem as you and Sean told me something that should work. Don't focus on tapping the cups from above but instead.. When the diabolo that is leaning down leaves the string on the left side put your right stick under the diabolo! Let it hit the cup from below!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: kurrygrodan on November 02, 2008, 02:12:13 PM
I had the same problem as you and Sean told me something that should work. Don't focus on tapping the cups from above but instead.. When the diabolo that is leaning down leaves the string on the left side put your right stick under the diabolo! Let it hit the cup from below!
yeah i know that but they just starts to lean more when I tap the diabolo on the down side.
Sometimes i try to grind correct them but that doesn't work either

And what if both the diabolos are leaning down?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on November 02, 2008, 02:25:12 PM
Hey kurrygrodan. Try using that 'edit' button next time instead of reposting. ;)

It's always a grind more so than a tap. The diabolos do need to be going sufficiently fast to make it easy. It will work, just keep practising. Also practice with just one diabolo throwing it in a loop to make sure you understand exactly what needs to happen to adjust it as you'd like.

If both diabolos are leaning down, then you have 2 choices. You can either correct both with your stick or you can adjust how you drive the diabolos with your dominant hand. Try making the motion push towards the front. Both diabolos will then slowly start tilting that way.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Will G on November 02, 2008, 04:28:34 PM
When ever i do 2 diabolo they turn and go out of line, please help.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on November 02, 2008, 08:25:02 PM
To kurrygrodan. What you could also try is.. Try to correct them in a wrap! Put a wrap on one of the diabolos and just tap it! Try that for a diffrene.

And like Sean is saying. When you try to correct the diabolo on the way I just said you don't tap it but its almost a grind. You just put your stick under the diabolo try it out.6   ;)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mykill on November 06, 2008, 01:33:34 AM
so i've been doing 2D solid for about 3 months.
quick question
you guys who are good at 2D. do you guys need constant corrections or do your hands make sure the diabolo's are alligned. because im discovering if i do not constantly correct them they get thrown off the same plane....
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mike. on November 06, 2008, 03:14:27 AM
i consider myself fairly good at 2d and corrections will be necessary after tricks and such. you will learn to keep your shuffle and accelerations aligned in a little bit.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Swix on November 18, 2008, 04:49:07 PM
What diabolos is best for 2d? I have 1 Finesse and 1 Jazz, and it is not working so good together...
Any tips? Is Finesse or a Jazz the best?

Sorry bad English.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: flep on November 18, 2008, 08:59:16 PM
You'll have more fun with finesse because jazz is too small and it's harder to perform tricks with them ;)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Xev on November 21, 2008, 01:10:36 AM
so i've been doing 2D solid for about 3 months.
quick question
you guys who are good at 2D. do you guys need constant corrections or do your hands make sure the diabolo's are alligned. because im discovering if i do not constantly correct them they get thrown off the same plane....

If they are spinning fast enough, they will not need correcting for 20-30 throws. At least with Finesse.

Anyway, learning 2D was a fun experience for me. I got a blue Finesse for my birthday in June, then bought a red Finesse soon after. I used 2diabolo.net, and on the second day, I could keep a solid shuffle going until the diabolos went out of line. Then it took me 2 months to learn correcting. It was kind of easy at first: I experimented and figured out that on a Finesse, if you hit these areas of the front cup, it would be tilted in these directions... Think of a vertical plane in front of you, and the front cup's tilt compared to that plane...

Top-right: Right
Bottom-right: Down
Bottom-left (Extremely hard to hit during a shuffle): Left
Top-left: Up

It was a little strange because the diagonal directions would turn the diabolo in the normal directions. Likewise, normal directions turns a diabolo diagonally. If you make a chart for this, all the directions for the places you hit are turned clockwise one-eight of the diabolo's circumference. I'll draw one up quick:

(http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq338/Xevious45/new/diabolo.jpg)

So, after I had that down, there was one main problem: turning the front cup to the left. Up was not a problem because it usually righted itself after a few accelerations, but left did not do this and was hard to hit.. So, you can use the opposite side: instead of front cup bottom-left, use back cup top-right. This is still a difficult movement to make in the middle of a shuffle, but it's easier if you catch the diabolo first and then quickly hit the back cup, top-right.

One more thing is, the diabolo can wobble for a few catches right after a correction. To take care of this, try not to hit the very edge of the diabolo, but a little bit closer to the axle on the outside. This will turn the diabolo with a swift movement to where you want it.

That's about all I have to say on 2D and corrections; I'm still working on it, but I thought some advice after just learning could help. Happy shuffling (and correcting)!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mykill on December 08, 2008, 11:20:17 PM
atm this is whats happening with my two diabolos.
                      -------
-------            \        /
\       /              \  _ /              <<they keep doing this and i think its affecting my
  \ _ /  ---string- /     \                 ability to start 3D and maintain sprinklers :(
  /    \              /        \
/        \            -------
--------
edit: im not sure which hand has this problem since it does this when i dont use my left hand and when i dont use either hands and hold them together...

any help appreciated im really stuck here ^_^
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: zwiggelbig on December 09, 2008, 12:08:54 PM
Try to put your left hand high and your right hand low. With your right stick pointed <---. And try to see how you could put your left stick then.

I think that should help =) Try it and let me know!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mykill on December 14, 2008, 02:42:43 AM
woot!
ok my shuffle is pretty consistant now.
im doing pretty well 2D over the leg as well ^_^

now the problem is sprinklers. i can do them but how do you guys keep them for so long?
mine die in about 3 seconds cuz i have to open it up or they'll crash...
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mike. on December 14, 2008, 02:04:35 PM
the trick to long sprinklers is uber amounts of speed, i suggest you learn backwrapping every pass or chinese whipping before you try to hold prinklers long.

good luck :)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Jesse on December 14, 2008, 05:06:32 PM
Ahem... You clearly haven't met any Finnish diaboloists!?  ;)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mykill on December 15, 2008, 01:41:43 AM
already know how to chinese whip speed up.
as well i cant backwrap every pass cuz the string is REALLY slippery. as in i cant wrapstart 2D on without insane pulls to start.

how do finnish diaboloists do it?
enlighten me  :-D
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: William on December 15, 2008, 02:56:47 AM
If your string is too slippery to do 2d whips then I'd advise rubbing some dry soap up and down it, then rub it off.
Alot of Finnish diaboloists 'pump' their shuffles to go really fast to gain spin from friction via rolling around the string, I do this for my 3d sprinklers - same concept.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Swix on January 24, 2009, 03:01:18 PM
Here is my ever first try with 2 finesse diabolos!
Not very good, but i will be better :)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_-Mo6GcOUU
My blue Finesse arrived yesterday, and guess im happy ;D
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mykill on February 09, 2009, 10:37:14 PM
less left hand will help.
you can shuffle two with just 1 hand and using the right keeps them from going off course better :D
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Midoryu on February 11, 2009, 12:14:22 AM
Quote
you can shuffle two with just 1 hand and using the right keeps them from going off course better

Would it be inaccurate to say, assuming that one is right handed, that ONLY using your right hand is enough?  Well, I certainly think so.  And if you didn't mean that, then my apologies.  Anyway, that's the reason why only one [Edit] dominant (in this case your right) hand works, 'cause that's all you need.  The left hand could be made into support, but usually it's the right (or dominant) hand that drives the action.  Actually, it's just like keeping a 1D constant (lol!), where the left hand is used to help feed the string to the right hand, which controls almost all the way the diab spins.

For me, at least.   :P
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: fzzyrn on February 11, 2009, 03:16:19 AM
you can actually do a shuffle that is dominant with any hand. I do right dominant async shuffles, and donald grant does left dominant (and he's right handed). The point is, it doesnt really matter.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Terminator on February 20, 2009, 11:27:24 PM
yea.....so my flys broke at school today and I brought out my veryvery old athenas.  A bit small and I tried to use them to do 2d but i seem worse than with the flys.  Any tips on 2d with small diabolos?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mike. on February 21, 2009, 01:51:13 PM
yea.....so my flys broke at school today and I brought out my veryvery old athenas.  A bit small and I tried to use them to do 2d but i seem worse than with the flys.  Any tips on 2d with small diabolos?

ohh athenas. good times.

i learned 2D with those little buggers and i have to say, its disheartining. but i did it.

tips? well, you have to be more concetrated on catching the diabolo on each shuffle. and corrections are tricky, espescially with the cups on them little devils.

good luck
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: ETAMark on February 23, 2009, 03:33:13 AM
One trick I used to learn the wrap start was to put a weight about that of one diabolo on the string. I used a few large washers. Then I tried to get the diabolo to stay up above the washers without hitting them at all. It got me doing it well within an hour or two.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: mike. on February 24, 2009, 01:58:45 AM
One trick I used to learn the wrap start was to put a weight about that of one diabolo on the string. I used a few large washers. Then I tried to get the diabolo to stay up above the washers without hitting them at all. It got me doing it well within an hour or two.

i used a roll of duct tape  :P
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: MIAsian5070 on March 20, 2009, 12:42:42 AM
I learned to start by various throw-ins: my first attemps were with the "full-cup grip" , where you the cup with your fingers wrapped around the top half of the cup, then you spin it by twisting your hand to the left for a backswing, and then releasing. this didn't work well for me, however, because my hand did not really grip the entire cup well, and then the momentum i applied by spinning only gave half of the diabolo spin, so it wobbled.

My next attempt was the "cup-edge" grip, where i would place my thumb at about the 9 o'clock position on the outside of the cup, and rest my fingers on the inside for a good grip, and then flick my fingers upward along with my arm to start it.  this works well for me, as i feel I can get more spin  on the diabolo this way.

I recently also finally learned the wrap start, which is also another impressive yet not too difficult way to learn.

when doing the wrap start, do not remain wrapped too long.  a good 3 or 4 pulls is enough to get started, and then you can accelerate it later once you get the feel for the shuffle. when exiting the wrap start, be sure give your left hand a slight flick up and away from the center line of your body, so that you can toss the diabolo up and have time for the "new" diabolo to come down.

When in the shuffle, try to keep your stick-ends pointing toward the "inside" (i.e. into your center-of-body line), that makes it much easier to control and aim the shuffle.  a good way to practice this is leg orbits with just 1d.

Like most, i myself have problems with correcting 2d, because when I try to tap, I usually end up missing and one diabolo flies out of the shuffle :-D xD
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: kurrygrodan on March 29, 2009, 04:43:22 PM
somebody help me!!
can some1 tell me why my far cup always starts to tillt down when I run 2 diabolos??? it's getting very annoying cause it's preventing me from doing line 1millions of tricks!!! how can I make them stop tillting??? it's just getting worse all the time :S and I have to get it perfect till 2/4/2009 cause then it's a talent show in my school!some1 help me fast!!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on March 30, 2009, 01:48:00 PM
Easy on the smilies and exclamation marks please! I edited it down a bit. :) (oh the irony)

The diabolos will both tilt out if you are pushing forward with your right hand (assuming you are diaboloing right-handed). Think about the alignment of your hand movement. Try aiming for the tip of the other stick. If they both start tilting out then do the opposite - starting pushing back towards your body.

You could get someone to watch you from the side if you aren't sure what direction you are pushing.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: kurrygrodan on March 30, 2009, 04:28:19 PM
Easy on the smilies and exclamation marks please! I edited it down a bit. :) (oh the irony)

The diabolos will both tilt out if you are pushing forward with your right hand (assuming you are diaboloing right-handed). Think about the alignment of your hand movement. Try aiming for the tip of the other stick. If they both start tilting out then do the opposite - starting pushing back towards your body.

You could get someone to watch you from the side if you aren't sure what direction you are pushing.
actually I think I had  50 smileys from the beginning but then I removed like 40 but theres still plenty left///btw I think I gto the problem today in school
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Kjeldabolo on May 07, 2009, 01:54:50 PM
I can do a wrap start but when I want to go into the shuffle 1diabolo flies up and lands on the string, but then i can't catch the second.
And if i do catch the second then i can shuffle for like 10times.
And i watched every single thing on the internet about correcting, but i still don't seem to get it,  :'(
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: ETAMark on May 25, 2009, 05:43:36 AM
I don't know if I'm just dumb or something, but 2d was the most frustrating thing I've learned to do in my entire life. Even after I got the wrap start (after trying just about every other start there was) it still took me easily 6 months to get a shuffle going decently. Heck, I can still barely correct anything. I guess it just doesn't come to some people as easy as others.

All I can say is it is worth the effort. I'm not consistent by any measure, but I managed a few sprinkler-suicide exits the other day and I ran around screaming for a little bit. There's something awesome about a trick finally clicking.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Mr.D on May 25, 2009, 09:26:49 PM
And sprinkler with suicide exit is an awesome beginner tricks ;)

All I can say as tips is: push with the right hand! (I shuffle using only the right hand to push), keep the stick-tips close to eachother and have patience :)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: gir on June 29, 2009, 06:20:21 AM
sorry to resurrect this now evidently dead thread, but i was wondering if anybody else has had the issue of having the string get really, really twisted when doing 2d shuffle. because my string keeps doing that and it is quite annoying and i cant figure out what im doing wrong. any advice from anybody?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on June 29, 2009, 01:11:49 PM
shouldn't twist really, the only thing I can think of is that your string isn't rotating freely in your stick ends and every time you go from 2 sticks in 1 hand you are adding a twist.

P.s. dont worry about the bump, this huge thread is meant to keep all the info you could want on getting 2 going in one place
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: gir on July 03, 2009, 01:21:06 AM
yeah, thanks se'an(i cant do the accent mark)
i watched myself a bit closer and i realized that i had been unconsciously turning my right stick every time i propelled either diabolo, so, it was jsut me being stupid  :P
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: NiekG on August 08, 2009, 01:11:13 PM
I don't really know if this is the correct topic or not, but I don't really feel like opening a new one just for this question. :-D
I've been doing 2d for quite some time now and it's coming along just fine. However, I just can't get continuous wrapping and unwrapping (you know, to gain speed) right. This isn't only a nice way to build up speed, but I think it looks kinda awesome too :P. Now I'm just stuck to doing speed-pulls over and over again and it looks so dull  :(.
The actual problem is that I can't seem to keep the free diabolo in place when I unwrap the wrapped one. As soon as I unwrap it, the second one comes flying towards the other side and I don't have enough time to wrap it. Ends up in a tangled-up mess, hand hurts etc. etc.  :P
Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Bizzat1 on August 09, 2009, 11:44:54 AM
I found when learning it that dropping your left hand suddenly stops the non-wrapped diabolo on the string as it moves from right to left (right handed), at which point you can pop it up to be wrapped when you like. Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: NiekG on August 09, 2009, 02:49:49 PM
Thanks for the advice :) But is there any tutorial about this? Cause I can't seem to figure out how to place my hands.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: No Doutt on September 11, 2009, 12:19:25 AM
When u correct diabs while hovering, does it correct turns or tilts? 
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on September 11, 2009, 12:47:12 AM
Either, depends whether you rub the top or bottom (turning) or the sides (tiling up and down).
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: No Doutt on September 11, 2009, 07:40:59 PM
How could u hover a diabolo and tap under it? do you just quickly tap under it after you pull it up? and for correcting turns, I tap the top of the closer cup (turns Left) and, the farther cup (turns Right). i go under the diabolo for tilts, have i been doing that wrong? Also, I REALLY need help with just hovering it to accelerate it, or correct it. The two diabolos always get too close to each other, so I have to unwrap out of it. And occationally, the diabolo I'm accelerating turns to the right. So sometimes to start 2 diabolos, I do the wrap start, and if I want to do a hover start, I start the wrapped diabolo turned toards the left. Then hover untill it turns right.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: 4leek24 on October 13, 2009, 08:30:53 PM
i learned wrap start several months ago. i learned it using two sundia flys. i realized sundia flys turn alot when doing a hover wrap. its also much harder to wrap and unwrap when  its going really fast. correcting them was easy since they are very responsive, but i need to know how to correct the outer cup. when i try to correct the outer cup, the diabolo completely misses the string.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hathaway on October 13, 2009, 11:03:44 PM
What you need to do is correct the outer cup, and keep the string in line with the axle!!!! That way the diabolo won't miss the string!!  :-X
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: 4leek24 on October 14, 2009, 11:12:17 PM
What you need to do is correct the outer cup, and keep the string in line with the axle!!!! That way the diabolo won't miss the string!!  :-X
thanks
that helps a little, but i cant get the stick to strike the outer cup hard enough to do a good correction. right now, i correct with inner cup and by hitting the diabolo during a hover wrap.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hathaway on October 15, 2009, 10:00:34 AM
on a more serious note, you have to think about keeping the tip of the stick in the same place as when you do a back cup correction. I'm not sure how to describe it really but say when you do a back cup correction the stick is at 90degrees when you do a front cup you need to turn the stick so it is say 270 degrees and that the tip of the stick is pointing back at you.

I personally find it easier to correct using the backcup but tapping it on the other side of the diab this forces it into the string so that there is less chance of missing it.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: 4leek24 on October 24, 2009, 06:14:18 AM
thanks, i can now correct properly. i just learned continuous wrapping. the problem is that it goes out of control after after 5 wraps. anytips, or do i need to practice more?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Hathaway on October 24, 2009, 09:31:12 AM
Continuous wraps just come with practice. Although I find its primarily a right hnad motion and the left hand really doesn't do much at all.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: dave from the grave on July 04, 2010, 08:39:48 PM
as long as both the stick tips and axles stay in line the diabolos will never miss the string. if your having trouble then unfortuantly its like every other juggling problem, it can be solved with practise.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Sean on July 04, 2010, 09:54:12 PM
i just learned continuous wrapping. the problem is that it goes out of control after after 5 wraps. anytips, or do i need to practice more?
Also keep in mind that it will be easier if you reach across and pick the diabolo off the string as opposed to trying to wrap it mid-air. Watch some of the old 2d trick videos on Priam's original site.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: foreverinfinitegenocide on July 14, 2010, 03:46:21 AM
 :'( 2d is hard... luckily I've decided that the wrap start is the easiest start for me :-D i cant do a throw in and also it's good practice when you're practicing by yourself... hope this helps :-|
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: lee31392 on July 19, 2010, 03:20:09 PM
Hi guys, I know you probably get a lot of these threads but I can't find one that applies to me. [Mod edit: no worries, merged it with one that does apply]

Basically, I am a very competent single diabolo user, but I want to move on to 2 diabolos. I'm left handed though. I can do the throw in start (start with a spinning diabolo, both sticks in one hand, throw another diabolo up (from the left hand, spinning clockwise) catch it on the right side of the string), I do this, the shuffle gets going but then it always stops. The diabolo that was thrown in always looses speed and just messes up. Please help.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Toby on July 19, 2010, 04:24:28 PM
If the diabolo you've thrown up is landing on the right hand side, then you're trying to shuffle the wrong way. You want the diabolo to land on the left hand side and you should be popping the diabolo across with your right hand.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Rossta on September 05, 2010, 02:15:39 AM
I am just starting to get a few ossc with 2D after many years of using 1D.  I have about a 50% success rate with the throw start (but that normally falls on the first ossc even if I catch it) and i cannot get a wrap start at all yet (the diabolo will always turn too much when trying this and it is far too soon to start learning corrections).  My best to date is probably about 10-15 ossc before I lose one.  Anything that anyone can say that might help me get the hang of starting the second one better.  I need a more accurate throw on axis and spin.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: finesse on September 05, 2010, 10:22:37 AM
The wrap start is an important thing to learn, so if i were you, practise it.
To make your diabolo stay straight while hovering, you could either start with the diabolo crooked, and when it evens out with the other diabolo, you unwrap it.
Or else, you could correct the diabolo whilst being in the hover, by simply tapping the diabolo.
It takes some time, but it is important to learn.
Good luck.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Rossta on September 05, 2010, 12:05:31 PM
Thanks Finesse.  I am a way off learning corrections yet.  Today I received my new order from Oddballs (2 * Henrys Jazz medium size & 2 * Sundia Fly)  I have been practicing all morning and with the Henrys I can now get around 50 ossc of the shuffle and seem to understand how to vary the height.  I even felt brave enough to pop 1 up out of the shuffle and catch it back in which I did manage a couple of times.  My goal is to keep practicing the shuffle until such time as I can visualise corrections properly.  I can angle correct naturally but axis correction eludes me at this point in time.

I have been watching some of the tutorial videos and reading these threads so I understand how it is done.  It is just a case of practice now.  I will get there soon enough.  I always do  :)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: finesse on September 05, 2010, 12:28:39 PM
Good to hear you progressing.
I never do axle correction, i don't really see the need in it.
I simply tap the top or the sides of the cups to get them in the right angle.
The far off cup can be a bit hard to correct, but that will come in time.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: twostime on October 31, 2010, 11:09:58 PM
So, two & a half years after buying a pair of Finesses . . .  I can at last get them to shuffle.

I am a little elderly so forgive the time its taken.  The point of the post is;

1.  Don't give up
2. find someone who can already shuffle two.

I have struggled for two year with collapsing shuffles and tangled stings but that all changed when I visited Oddballs in Brighton & bought 2 new "Glary" Tiabolos.  Lovely, translucent, light & wide; guaranteed to get my shuffle going I was told by Max's son.

And so it turned out, a few attempts with the Tai's and voilà! Shuffle going just fine :-D. But wait a minute, I revert to the Finesses and voilà they work too!  :-|

So what was the answer?

I think it was watching Max's son shuffle the diabolos.

For me (right handed) it's down to the left hand.  He clearly demonstrated how to shuffle two diabolos.  I have read (quite a bit of) this thread, looked at various sites & vids, (old and new) but what really helped was seeing someone get them shuffling, in the flesh.

Seems to me you need to employ the stronger hand from time to time to give a little bit of extra oomph but, much more importantly, the weaker hand to pop the diabolos up.  I'm sure that's been written before in the last 20 pages of this thread but I guess that its not a problem to repeat it.  Correction of all sorts will require lots of practice; I'm still not much good even though I know the theory.  Deftness of touch is key and can only be acquired through practice, practice and more practice. (years ahead in my case, minutes in the case of certain younger forum members!)

So, concentrate on your weaker hand & go out there and make some contacts. (The sharing of knowledge that makes juggling such a great pastime)

Thanks to Max's son at Oddballs in Brighton too!

Happy juggling.





Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: gnauhwerdna on February 15, 2011, 08:58:43 PM
sorry for bringing back this dead thread, but.
I'm currently working on 2 diabolos, and i've gotten it to start, but i can't shuffle. The two Sundia Shinings (bearing yoyos, oh the horror  :P) hit each other after I unwrap theone I put in. either that, or i drop the shuffling.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on February 16, 2011, 01:51:05 PM
Gnauhwerdna just keep working at it and reading this thread and checking out videos.
http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=34 (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=34) is worth reading as well

If you've managed to shuffle the diabolos at all then you just need practice to keep the shuffle going. If you are failing to get the shuffle every time then you are starting badly and might need to work on that (or try a different start)

 Finding someone that can already do 2d will be a big help (juggling clubs/conventions - check www.jugglingdb.com (http://www.jugglingdb.com))
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: gnauhwerdna on February 17, 2011, 11:54:49 PM
thank you!
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: NC1138 on April 21, 2011, 07:28:56 PM
I have been asking around trying to find out how to do multiple diabolo for ages but I have had no luck. People have tried passing it in I have tried self start and wrap start, plus I have been at it constantly for 2 years now, but still no luck!

Plz help!!!!

Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Tralopit on June 09, 2011, 06:50:59 PM
Hi,

I have lots of troubles with rewrapping a diabolo during the shuffle to accelerate,
when I rewrap one I can't get it higher in the string and they collide fast afterwards.
I tried to pull with my stick slowly and faster, but with no success. I use Finesse G4's without evo kits, if that's important to know.
Hopefully someone knows what I am doing wrong:)

Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: seán_ on June 10, 2011, 10:50:38 AM


I have been asking around trying to find out how to do multiple diabolo for ages but I have had no luck. People have tried passing it in I have tried self start and wrap start, plus I have been at it constantly for 2 years now, but still no luck!

Plz help!!!!


Don't know what to suggest if you've put 2 years into. can you upload a video of a few attempts?
Also consider learning 2 high and lowering it.


Hi,

I have lots of troubles with rewrapping a diabolo during the shuffle to accelerate,
when I rewrap one I can't get it higher in the string and they collide fast afterwards.
I tried to pull with my stick slowly and faster, but with no success. I use Finesse G4's without evo kits, if that's important to know.
Hopefully someone knows what I am doing wrong:)

http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=34 (http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=34) as this thread is about the first part of learning 2d

There are a few threads on backwraps/speedwraps and 'Tijn did a tutorial (that seems to be down) check some old threads.
Basically if you haven't got a solid (preferably corectable) shuffle then keep working on that.

To back wrap you need to bring/reach your hand over the diabolo pretty much as it is coming off the string. This is easier with a slow shuffle and the ability to 'pop' a diabolo up out of the shuffle (moving lh up and to left).

To stop the diabolo dropping down and colliding a few things can help. When you wrap try and wrap close to the RH, when wrapped bring your RH across to the right side and up a bit. Use old or soaped string.

Stick with it.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: creature420 on June 29, 2011, 11:39:24 AM
hey guys :) i just started 2 diabolo about a week ago  i can spin them, grind, high throw and 1 up sun's , learning sprinklers and S-fans,  i was wondering if somone could advise me as how to straiten out my diabolo's ( both leaning outward and off center ways) i can do it with 1 , moving the string back and poking the cups however it doesnt work with 2 !!
any simple advice would be awsome :)
thank yous
krisoff
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: onewheeldave on April 25, 2012, 02:37:54 AM
hey guys :) i just started 2 diabolo about a week ago  i can spin them, grind, high throw and 1 up sun's , learning sprinklers and S-fans,  i was wondering if somone could advise me as how to straiten out my diabolo's ( both leaning outward and off center ways) i can do it with 1 , moving the string back and poking the cups however it doesnt work with 2 !!
any simple advice would be awsome :)
thank yous
krisoff

I'm really surprised you can do all those tricks before you've learnt to correct the diabolos! Are you using fixed, or bearing axle diabolos?

Essentially you can't correct 2 by moving the string back and forth, like you'd do with one.

Instead, all corrections have to be done by touching a diabolo, usually with your dominant hand handstick, in specific places.

There's lot's of tutorials on how to do it, but, you can learn which places have which effect, by using one diabolo, get it spinning fast, hook your dominant handstick over the other, so the diabolos held up in a loop of string, then experiment with altering it's tilt and angle, just by touching the cups with your dominant handstick.

For example, touching the top of the near cup will turn the diabolo without altering the tilt- touching the top of the far cup will turn it in the opposite direction: touching the side of the near cup (at ninety degrees to the top) will tilt it, and touching the side of the far cup will tilt it the other way: touching anywhere between the top and side, will both turn and tilt it, proportionate to it's proximity to the top/side.

Getting one diabolo doing leg orbits is also excellent practice- by adjusting the tilt and turn of the diabolo purely by touching as described above, you should be able to sustain the leg orbit indefinitly.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: chrisj on September 08, 2012, 08:52:42 AM
I've always used the wrap start..I'm still having a little trouble correcting, but im starting to get the hang of it...as for type of diabolos, I stick with the wide-axle version of the Henry's circus.
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Graham Milligan on November 05, 2012, 09:53:20 PM
Hey, ive decided after too long of not being arsed to learn 2 diabolo, to learn 2 diabolo. I can get into shuffle no problem and am practising magic knots and attempting to learn mini-gs but whenever im in shuffle my diabolos seem to be tilting backwards alot and sometimes will tilt all the way back and spin out of control within a couple of orbits.
Can anyone shed any light on this?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: cyrus0135 on January 06, 2014, 04:24:45 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKr0tfN0uXY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKr0tfN0uXY)
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: 5p3ak on June 09, 2014, 02:38:34 PM
Is there a sticky for 3D and 4D ?

Hey, ive decided after too long of not being arsed to learn 2 diabolo, to learn 2 diabolo. I can get into shuffle no problem and am practising magic knots and attempting to learn mini-gs but whenever im in shuffle my diabolos seem to be tilting backwards alot and sometimes will tilt all the way back and spin out of control within a couple of orbits.
Can anyone shed any light on this?

I beleive you may be accidentally correcting the diabolo without you knowing it. Check your left stick and try to make a straight line, between the 2 sticks, parallel to the cup of the Diabolos
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: X-treme Productions on October 26, 2014, 06:38:32 PM
Ask me for tricks
Here you can see some of them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO_uTc_kaeo&index=5&list=UUUfBquTVz8N3B_SaLsUuuwg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO_uTc_kaeo#ws)
or here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V8s7MDLAzw&index=2&list=UUUfBquTVz8N3B_SaLsUuuwg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V8s7MDLAzw#ws)
Enjoy ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: KavomatovlFug on January 06, 2015, 11:35:22 PM
i got another question wen doing a barrel roll my board flys off half way in the air everytime y?
Title: Re: Starting and correcting 2 diabolos
Post by: Technomonkey on January 07, 2015, 12:26:08 AM
how do you correct the yoyo when its turning to far counter clockwise because right now im trying to correct it but cant reach its very difficult. also sometimes it lands on my stick or its turned too far that i cant correct it. Also how do you transition into a trick for example like leg orbit the string is always moving but i get it if someone was doing three yoyos because the string forms like a triangle for someone to stick there leg through. Transitioning into a trick with doulbe diabolo is difficult
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