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Messages - Martin_

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I understand your point, but in a way all subcultures are misunderstood by 'ordinary' people. I'm pretty sure juggling is not the only art form that gets mocked. What diabolo means to the people that are truly passionate about it and have the most knowledge on the subject is what should matter most. Therefor diabolo is just as much a valid art form as any other form of creative expression such as dancing or painting.

Hang on thats exactly what I said in my post, I guess I just worded it badly. "Personally I think all forms of object manipulation need to be up there with painting, ballet, poetry."
Diabolo is definatly a form of object manipulation, hence it is just as important to its practitioners as drawing is to an artist, or piano is to a musician.

The only sad thing is in my eyes it's not nearly regarded as important as other artforms to 'ordinary' people it's often just viewed as a childs toy. Of course as you pointed out all subcultures can be mocked. But I can't think of any quite so widespread as diabolo, juggling, poi, unicycle, everything under that branch which I tend to term dynamic object manipulation. Though this is very offtopic.


Have you read my blog? ;D There's a handful of articles about this very topic.

I must say I don't understand why you choose this title for your topic though, it looks to me like you're not taking diabolo seriously as an artform.

I just took too long replying it logged me out and I lost those precious words.. Here's a summery:

Personally I think all forms of object manipulation need to be up there with painting, ballet, poetry. But due to the traditional medium diabolo, juggling, even poi.. is presented in (circusy clowns and whatnot) invalidates it as a serious expression of human creativity. Though obviously recently this has improved, alot of circus's are now much more focused on the skill and performance than cheap pie throwing laughs. It takes a while for public opinion to change. Though I do enjoy a good pie in the face, mmm creamy.

I completely agree that music and relaxedness is really a key to getting new concepts developed. I love to just jam to a song and see where it takes me diabolo wise. Even if its just a variation to a simple trick which fits in well with the beat often feels really good.

Though I would argue that creativity can be forced, by purposely doing things differently, or wrong often new ideas can crop up. Though obviously stressing out about coming up with something new doesn't mean its going to happen. I reccommend to anyone listening to a completely different style of music to what you normally do then diabolo to it the way music can affect your diaboloing is quite amazing it can almost be subconcious if you allow yourself to be open to new styles of music.

Marky boy I eat fine quit yer jibber jabber, digestives and hobnobs are a varied and mixed diet, though can't say I've seen sunlight in 2-3 days now. I completely understand the "new prop" feeling the lack of preconceptions about how it works often comes out with interesting ideas. Which is what I sometimes try to approach diabolo with but after being so familiar with a prop its hard to treat it as if its new.

The ministry of manipulation site is great. I really love how alot of people are looking to combine and mix prop methods contact clubs for example. Stick play is something i've not seen explored too much and it would be interesting to see what can be done with it, the more abstract and bizzare the better I always say.

I am wittering on far too much, hope this is interesting to some people, though i'm sure it's been covered alot before so I am sorry if its too much of a repost.

Trying to dig myself out of a pit of uninspired..ness, I thought to myself.. at 3am, why not see what other people have to say about it.

Innovation is what diabolo and all juggling is about. It's what really captivates me about the whole spartform... (long story short after a lengthy discussion about juggling skills being art of sport we came to that as a conclusion).  Seeing someone at the top of their game come up with amazing new concepts and stylisation is truly inspiring.

So, what inspires you to come up with something new?
Accidental chance of messing up but it turning out to be more interesting than the trick you were aiming for?
Or determined exploration of a concept, for example for a while I was playing with using 2 sets of handsticks, one set per hand and seeing what could be done passing in between. Which was interesting but it soon whittled away into nothingness.

I would write more but my brain is slowly melting from tiredness.

Videos / Re: Diabolo seen on regional news.
« on: February 27, 2009, 04:46:28 PM »
Aye they only had 15 min so i'd have felt bad trying to nail a vertax double genocide just to look cool. But was nice just to get diabolo exposure.

Videos / Diabolo seen on regional news.
« on: February 27, 2009, 04:07:19 PM »

I kept it simple was so windy down there, definatly a good laugh. Cuts out just before a nice mini-g combo.  :-D

Community & Events / Re: British Juggling Convention 2009 - Postponed
« on: February 19, 2009, 05:28:35 PM »
Southern lights you say? I hear thats a jolly good place to be.

Its regrettable about BJC being postponed, but definatly would be good to do some sort of one dayer in place.

General / Re: Preferred terminology for horizontal diabolo play?
« on: January 28, 2009, 04:51:48 AM »
Ultimate danger mode, one for the crowd.

Tricks / determining which wrap it is.. help!
« on: April 26, 2008, 02:04:59 PM »
Bit of an odd question but the subject holding me back somewhat. That is after a genocide of some sort, whether it be normal mini-g or slowicide mini-g. Half the time I get a backwrap and other time its caught in a frontwrap. This means when i try to do continuous mini genocides and I pull the wrap off on the wrong side, everything dies. It seems to be pot luck whether the trick works or not. Same thing happens with panaray's style "duicide genocide" things.

Basically, is there a way to force which side it wraps up on after doing a genocide trick, or is there a position where you will always have a clean release when performing a slowicide mini genocide from either front or backwrap.

Apologise for the wordyness, its a wierd concept to put into a forum post.

Community & Events / Re: EJC 2008 - Karlsruhe, Germany
« on: April 24, 2008, 11:49:18 PM »
possibly going, depends on funds.

Community & Events / Re: Southern lights diabolo
« on: April 24, 2008, 11:42:55 PM »
You forgot to add I'd be there as extra enticement.

Should be a good weekend, looking forward to it.

General / Re: What is diabolo for you?
« on: April 24, 2008, 11:27:54 PM »
A state of mind.

or concept, whatever sounds more patronising.

Videos / Re: BJC08 1d renegade
« on: April 21, 2008, 01:10:05 AM »
Great night, drunkardly I tried to do inf suicides whilst downing a pint right after that... for a reason not randomly. Didn't go all too well :D

Good stuff from those guys, not been to BJC before but I had the feeling diabolo was more prominant this year than before from people I spoke too. 3 diaboloists in BYJOTY. 2 acts on the public show, and no shortage of props rolling into the middle of people passing. 

Videos / Re: to all of you three_diabolo_kids
« on: April 21, 2008, 01:02:44 AM »
Bring on juggling diversity and creativism. Stuff so out of the box the box is no longer visible, how about attaching the string to rings instead of sticks and seeing what comes up? Or having some weight in the middle of the string so stick play (like astrojax) could be messed about with. Sure its possible somehow..
Loved the 2 sets of stings Looby was playing with at BJC. From a performance idea, what about attatching fake knifes over the face of the diabolo. on both sides. Would really make performance for the audience go to a new level. anyone can appreciate spinning blades of metal inches from your face*.

*I know this idea is rediculouly dangerous, shiney rubber or plastic would have to be used and extreme care taken. But i think the effect on an audience would be dramatic.
Also before anyone tries attatching knifes to diabolos, loosing an arm and blaming me. I do not condone the idea or take any responsibility for people trying it :D. Seriously lawsuits would not be fun right now. Don't do it!

apologies for spelling, dyslexic at the best of times and 1am with little sleep the previous night and a large amount of work ahead to do makes brain go something something..

Tricks / Re: I just learnt to... (2008)
« on: April 20, 2008, 10:00:15 PM »
tye my shoelaces!! (I was proud)

oh and antisuicides.. But more importantly my laces no longer trail dangerously!

Tricks / Re: Naming of Tricks
« on: April 20, 2008, 07:55:26 PM »
I do like the idea of combo's having more imaginative, or Pronouns (think thats right)names. while keeping singular tricks as a descriptive as possible. (Fans having some similarities to desk/ceiling fans) and ect. I also think having a standardised dictionary of names would rock, I'm sure theres something similar about but i've missed it no doubt. The diabolo wiki would be great for that if it doesnt exist already. Whilst more than one name for a trick isnt necessarily a bad thing, cohesion of understanding is pretty vital, especially in very much a multicultural community. (God i'm sounding like an MP....)

Secondly I'd like to bring up the trick popularity to name question. A recent example I can think of is what i call "pinch whip catches", where you pinch the string whilst in a magic knot or some similar move, throw the diabolo out of the knot and whip the diabolo back onto the string using the loop between your thumb and the stick. This is, unless i'm hugely mistaken not the most widespread of tricks, I've only really seen Nick and Langergz do it before. Though I'm sure others do it's just not as well known as lets say a mini-gen. Simply put, what is its name, and why is it so under prescribed?

Looking back on my learning experiance and i'm sure others may agree it felt like there was a set list of tricks to learn. Rather than to experiment with things. "Right, I have to learn infinite suicides, then mini-g's, then vertax genocides, then 2 diabolo". Not necessarily in this order but that feeling of being restricted to learning tricks to get to this "level" before you could even begin to experiment. Discuss? :D

Tricks / Naming of Tricks
« on: April 17, 2008, 10:44:06 PM »
Been thinking about certain diabolo styles, or combos, I suppose. Where generic naming has been forgotten or not bothered with. Nearly all traditional and many newer tricks seem to be quickly named and identified. But with somone such as Langerz or indeed some of the body combos and contact diabolo. Naming convention doesn't seem to fit. Or simply put there are no names that I'm aware of for the majority of these... phenominoms.

The coleration is also that these nameless styles are much less common in videos and in general. The Antonin and Eric style body stuff isn't half as replicated as the slowicide minigenocides, or the integrals. Wondered what peoples thoughts on the matter was. Why are tricks with names much more widely replicated or performed. I may also just be horrendously wrong but this is the impression I've picked up.

If its deemed trash, lock and delete :P I hoped it might be interesting to somone.

General / Re: Diabolo mess ups records
« on: April 16, 2008, 08:18:29 PM »
Turned up at BJC to find my 2 sets of sticks and strings knotted together. Took 15 minuits and about 4 people to get, nowhere... Had to restring both sets much to my annoyance.

Moral of the story is, don't let your sticks get twangled... yes twangled.

Community & Events / Re: 13th Birmingham Circus Convention
« on: April 16, 2008, 06:43:34 AM »
Annoyingly due to family affairs its the first one I cant make in the past 2 years. Drat!

Gear / Re: Favourite Diabolo Poll 2008
« on: March 24, 2008, 11:56:54 PM »
Whatever diabolo i bought the most recently. Pretty sure this will be true for everyone too.

Using 2 circus's with ultra light kits and i couldnt imagine using anything else now. Finesse seem so pants in comparison.. No idea why its just my current feeling.

I love my flies but feel like its almost a different prop. So many things you can do with one and not the other. Also thier lack of durability on concrete is a huge drawback for me because i like to be able to stop anywhere and have a quick session if time allows. (always have my props on me at all times)

Videos / Re: Miki Homa - 1st video
« on: March 18, 2008, 11:33:22 PM »
Was very nice to watch without music, i'll give it another watch with music shortly. The white diabolos on white background was a tad annoying though would be my only criticism.

Good job

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