Japanese Whips by Diabolumberto, Jongle.net

[Sean]

Diabolumberto, I hope you don't mind me posting this here for you... these videos are far too useful not to be seen! Thank you so much!

Diabolumberto announced some short video tutorials on jongle.net of various Japanese whip variations, including the web whip that Trash did in the Brussels freestyle video that so many people where confused about.

Here is a translated version for all you who don't speak French out there (again, correct me if I mess something up Diabolumberto, or if you'd prefer to write this yourself just let me know):

Translation follows:
--------------------------------------------------------
Because there was a demand to understand certain whips (notably the one by Trash), I made some videos with whips, with some slow motion sections, and with some different angles.

The double whip - it is 2 basic whips (2 inferior/backside?, external) done with 2 hands at the same time.
http://diabolumberto.free.fr/double_boucle.wmv

Trash's Web - don't worry about the diabolo for this figure, it is the loop that goes around the string and is caught on the right stick that you must concentrate on:
http://diabolumberto.free.fr/eclair_trash.wmv

The cross by a cross-over (cross from above) - the loop of string on the right is passed by the left stick, underneath the diabolo and comes around to catch the right stick.
http://diabolumberto.free.fr/croix_par_dessus.wmv

The cross underneath - the loop of string passes underneath the diabolo and catches onto the left stick.
http://diabolumberto.free.fr/croix_par_dessous.wmv

The one handed cross - the 2 sticks are held in one hand and are not crossed... it is like a normal whip but done with the 2 sticks.
http://diabolumberto.free.fr/croix_une_main.wmv

And, finally a small combo (inspiration for the start from Antonin) that I won't explain...
http://diabolumberto.free.fr/combo.wmv
--------------------------------------------------------

Let me know if you want anything changed/removed. Merci infiniment de faire ces videos, Diabolumberto... vraiment sympa!

Sean

[norbi]

haha, thanx for the mention Sean. Yeah i would love to see them all in mpeg pleeeeeeeeeez

thanx anyone.

[diabolumberto]

Thank you to translate for me....

[Arjan]

Damn that last combo is nice!! Congratz on it! Credits go out to Antonin tough

[martijn]

REAL COOL! Nice clear vids Diabolumberto! Thanks for the translation Sean! Maybe I'll get it now...

[Rusty]

Wow, that is really nice, now I can get the basic japanese whip sometimes. Maybe I can try some of those cool tricks.

With all these different whips, I hope I can invent a norwegian whip sometime  

Rusty, Norway

[martijn]

Sometimes I can do now: That web by Trash or a cradle from above... But it's just a matter of luck...

[Punkerpanda]

hey, i was wondering.....how does the very basic japanese whip work?

i was trying this earlier, but i wasnt sure if i was doing the whole idea of it right. i would really appreciate it, if somebody could explain it to me

[Sean]

hey, i was wondering.....how does the very basic japanese whip work?

For a right handed whip - first hold your right hand higher than your left. Quickly whip your hand down. A loop of string develops which must then wrap around the axle of the diabolo and remain hanging on the stick. You are basically throwing a loop of string around the diabolo. Keep the stick angled up to keep the loop from falling off the stick. Easier said than done.

[xsupergirlx]

do you know of anything that could come off of a j whip/ 'slack whips'?
apart form c.cradels

[nicoli]

inverse j-whip to cradle is the easiest one, just like a trapeze cradle

[norbi]

Hey nicoli..

apart form c.cradels

Try some suicide stuff, there is A LOT to be discovered, i have a lot, but i have barely scratched the surface.

[Chiok]

I've become quite enamored with them of late too.  A right hand j-whip dropped out will leave you in a right hand minigenocide set up or big genocide if you fancy.

If you do a left hand and a right hand whip (if you have enough string) then hook the tips of your handsticks through the string, you can pop the diabolo out to a nice sturdy Tiger Cradle.  And if you have some more space, hook the tips through the string again and it'll hold the diabolo in so you can turn it to the side and upside down and then back around again (thanks to JGherkin for teaching me that).

Chiok

[seán_]

Nick wrote a nice guide in http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=1054

Unfortunately, Japanese whips or slack whips are difficult to explain in words. It is much easier to give a demonstration. If you were at the EJC in Ptuj there was a great workshop on slack tricks by a Czech diabolo player (Rezi?).
I shall attempt a description of the two basic slack whips. (From a right handed view point).
1. Slack whip to trapeze:- From an open string (Normal position)
- Lift diabolo upwards gently. Diabolo should NOT leave string.
- Bring right hand stick into the string on RIGHT side of diabolo from above.
- This should form a loop of slack string around the right hand stick.
- This loop travels over the top of the hand stick and catches the diabolo around the far cup.
- The diabolo should now be a trapeze position.

2. Slack under whip
- Lift diabolo upwards gently. Diabolo should NOT leave string.
- Bring right hand stick into the string on RIGHT side of diabolo from below.
- This should form a loop of string around the right hand stick.
- This loop travels under the hand stick and catches the diabolo around the far cup from underneath.
- The diabolo should be in a position that looks like a trapeze, but isn't.
- Throw the diabolo over the top of the left handstick and let the string drop off the right hand stick.
- You should now be in a right backside position.

I hope that this is useful and makes some sense. These tricks are much easier to learn from somebody showing you, so you should go to a convention or a local club and ask someone to show you.
The first thing that you should practise is making the loop and understanding where the loop is formed. A good way to practise this is to take just the sticks and string and try making the loop around the right stick and catching it over the end of the left stick. This puts you in the Cat's Cradle position. Once you get the hang of making the loop, try doing it with the diabolo on the string.
As for string length, I'm sure whatever you usually use will be fine. It would probably be harder with a very short string, but any reasonable length should work.
Hope that this helps. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.
Good Luck,
Nick.

[TyeTye]

Hey.. thought i might add my discoveries in the whip business....  there are many more than i had considered.....   (hope this works for a place to post)  

So.. of the 2 basic whip types i refer to them as J whips.. and C whips...  

J-whips because the hand movement you make is like a J  (underwhip)

and C-whips because the hand movement is like a C   (over-whip)

So.. possible variations i've found that i can do on a regular basis... are...

(assuming Right-handedness)

J-Whips

J-whip front cup  -  throw over the left handstick when you're done and you're in the right back-side.

J-Whip Front Cup + Left Stick - This leaves you in a pseduo cradle.  all you have to do is pop it up and catch like a normal cradle.

J-whip Back cup - this require a little more aiming. Once whipped.. throw over left stick to be in OPEN position.

J-Whip Back Cup + Left Hand Stick - Takes you into a full cradle.  (Same as C-whip front cup + left stick)

J-Whip No Cup (under axel) lands back on right stick.  - Leaves you in a full spaghetti. (http://diabolotricks.com/Knots.htm#spaghetti)  To Release, you can just throw it up, inbetween the sticks... (One of the neater looking whips I think)

J-Whip No Cup + Left Hand Stick - Full Cradle.

C-Whips

C-Whip Front Cup - Hey, A Trapeze, YAY! Throw diabolo over right handstick to go back to open string.

C-Whip Front Cup + Left Handstick - Full Cradle.

C-Whip Back Cup - This is HARD to aim... (For Me) Throw over the left handstick to be in a left backside. (I think... No diabolo in front of me to double check)

C-Whip Back Cup + Left Handstick - Can't do yet, i'm sure it'd work though... given symmetry of moves...

C-Whip No Cup(Under axel moves) Can't do either of those yet either... they would seem to be awkward to catch back on a stick.... but i'd assume possible.

OTHER

Throw a C-whip over the left hand-stick... and it creates a loop that you can then poke the right stick through......  you can then do 2 counterclockwise suns to end up in a cradle.  (will do video when i can)

Trash's Web... (boy... this one took me a long time.  Thanks trash... jerk.  )  
Throw slack around left hand-sticks string... and get the loop caught on the right hand-stick again....  This one has been explained a bit on these forums.. and you can find it just by doing a search on trash.

1 handed whip..  you can put both hand-sticks in your right hand and j-whip OR c-whip...

Also to note...  you can go into a double cradle by doing a J-front cup whip with your left hand then do with your right hand, (both interchangeable, or do both at once)  then open it up.... (aka... left stick pulls right string, right stick pulls left string... to free the axel, so you can throw it up....) and catch it in a cradle....  there will be 2 cradles that the diabolo is on top of.

Well, I think that's it for whips that i can do.... right now anyways....  please if anyone has anything else...   Post!  Lets see what we can come up with.

[-Leo-]

There are loads more do a left hand trapeze and do a rh underwhip and you end up in this kool locked position.

Here's my favorite at the minute rh underwhip aim under the axel and it will wrap the axel and the remaining loop will catch the stick. Then your in a magic knot. (credit on that one goes to Bill its a realy nice one)

[TyeTye]

yeh guppy... that right j-whip around the axel caught back on the right stick is definetely one of my fav's.... sometimes difficult to do though, for me anyways... especially with the yellow henry, as it's so wirey.. heh...

and the first one you described.. i think is the same as if you do a left handed c-whip  (overwhip) and then do a right handed j-whip (underwhip)  right?  Or is it something different.

[-Leo-]

If you mean doing the lh overwhip first then yeah it will be the same thing.

[Llama_Bill]

I really should make a video of all the whips I know and we really need to all use the same names as there is about 4 names for each whip and it's getting worst than the whole Excalibur / vertax / horizontal plane diabolo.

Bill.

[seán_]

J- whip both cups gives you a knot, pop diabolo out ala hook/loop then catch or whip diabolo to remove the knot.

Donald Grant has been working on some whips, I'll see about posting a video

[nicoli]

vertax slack whips - can anyone do them?

i can get a basic underwhip at about 10-15 degrees off vertax. i do 2 underarm suns and a left fritz release out of it to get back to open sting without loosing momentum.
and i can sometimes get a vertax overwhip but it looks very unimpressive because i have to unwrap it straight away to stop it screwing up.

Also, does anyone do double overwhips? recently my overwhips have all started coming out whith double trapezes and i was wondering how to controll weather it comes double or single.

[-Leo-]

To do a you only need to make a semi-cicular motion with your whipping hand and to do a double make a full circle.

[Llama_Bill]

If you get a double whip then whip alot slower, whips are easyer and more effective when done slow.  Double whips have been done for ages, I have a cool exit from a double reverse to record. I have to disagree with guppy, a double is just a fast single but you hold the stick closer to the diabolo than usual the mostion is no different.

Bill.

[TyeTye]

thought i might mention...   Jim from diabolotricks.com took my post and posted it...  I might be able to talk to him, and add more to the list.. whenever people get them ironed out.... (might)

here's the preliminary page.  http://diabolotricks.com/Japanesewhips.htm

sean - How do you make the loop big enough to get around both cups?  

Also.. In teaching others the basic J-whip and C-whip, they sometimes throw a the loops on the other side...
like.. they make a right side J-whip motion, and it ends up in a left-side trapeze...  I have been unsucessful in finding the best way to do this...  Anyone.. Any Pointers?

Doublewhips.. you're making 2 loops right after each other? or is it just wrapping around twice?

[nicoli]

they make a right side J-whip motion, and it ends up in a left-side trapeze

this happens to me sometimes
i think you go for an overwhip catching the left stick and the diabolo but the string falls off the right stick

Doublewhips.. you're making 2 loops right after each other? or is it just wrapping around twice?

wrapping round twice with one whip

(how do i do the "TyeTye wrote" thing)

[TyeTye]

i think you go for an overwhip catching the left stick and the diabolo but the string falls off the right stick

not quite right, I think nicoli

When i've seen them do it.. it's like you do the whip.... and don't hit the string with the handstick again... so it doesn't so much fold the loop over the handstick... instead the loop just travels to the other side... and goes around THAT handstick instead...  

i think if you do the whip... catch on the other stick and allow the first stick to drop out.. you end up with a different thing...  
example...  right J-whip front cup + left Stick = pseudo cradle....  drop out the right stick and you don't have a trapeze...

i'm saying they do a rightside j-whip and end up in Leftside Trapeze.
Strange....

Tye.

[seán_]

sean - How do you make the loop big enough to get around both cups?  

with skill and grace

I just give it a bit more slack than usual and a decent sized loop. I get a weird knot because it catches on the right stick, I let it slip off and voila

[nev]

Been playing with these the last few weeks (since bill showed me the 'no cup to magic knot' one which I like at lot).  I also like the one that goes under the axel and onto the left stick (straight to cradle).

Anyhows, I can also do a J-whip / trash's web combined - i.e. a trash's web with the bottom part of the web J-whipped under the axel (in one motion).

OTHER

Throw a C-whip over the left hand-stick... and it creates a loop that you can then poke the right stick through......  you can then do 2 counterclockwise suns to end up in a cradle.  (will do video when i can)

Can't work this one out - are you talking about a right C-whip over left stick only or stick & diab ?  From trying to work this out I got a web horizontally between both sticks a few times, but the timing is hard to get consistent (from a right C-whip over left stick only and catching back roung right stick).

Also.. In teaching others the basic J-whip and C-whip, they sometimes throw a the loops on the other side...
like.. they make a right side J-whip motion, and it ends up in a left-side trapeze... I have been unsucessful in finding the best way to do this... Anyone.. Any Pointers?

I've had a go at working this out and can get into it occassionally.  Problem is I have to forget the slow controlled whip style and go back to the fast 'whip the stick hard into the string' style most people do when learning.  This makes it hard to work out what is happening as it goes so fast.  You can also whip straight to frontwrap with a similar action.  

From what I can tell, it requires the loop to slip off the right stick as it moves towards diabolo and twists so that the string closest to the tip hits the axel and the other part of the loop travels round the outside of far cup. (whip with an inside to out action i.e. slightly across plane of diabolo away from your boby to get the twist action to work) loop then goes over left stick and hey presto - left trapeze.

Like I say though, it only seems to work with a fast action (think this is needed to get the loop to twist as required) and is hard to get to work consistently.

Whilst trying to get this I found you can send the loop in a wave up and over the left stick.  Right J-whip loop under axel (not round either cup) but let it slip off stick and it will travel like a shockwave up string and cause a C-whip on left stick which, if your quick, you can overwhip on diab to also leave a left trapeze.  Anyone else working with this?

[TyeTye]

mycini! good to see others working a lot on these babies...    heh

Can't work this one out - are you talking about a right C-whip over left stick only or stick & diab ? From trying to work this out I got a web horizontally between both sticks a few times, but the timing is hard to get consistent (from a right C-whip over left stick only and catching back roung right stick).

This is done without the diabolo at all....

you have ...




Hopefully that clears up that business.  


So the key to the right-thrown left whips... is letting it slip off, so the loop travels to the left stick... goes around the left stick, and catches on an axel?   And it must be done fast so the loop doesn't degrade?

I think i see what you're saying.

[nev]

So the key to the right-thrown left whips... is letting it slip off, so the loop travels to the left stick... goes around the left stick, and catches on an axel?   And it must be done fast so the loop doesn't degrade?

Thats the second way but not the way learners do it....  The way you describe as leaners often do by mistake (when trying a normal J-whip) catches on the axel first.  Since my last post I've got them more consistent - you need a flick of the wrist just as the loop slips off the string to get the twist part to work.

Basicaly, to do it in a way to understand what is going on, lay it out on the floor.  Normal J-whip loop then turn right stick back towards you (or flick wrist in real time) as loop slips off stick to create the twist.  Part of loop nearest tip off stick hits axel and the other side of loop swings out in front of far cup of diabolo & loops up over left stick. (oposite of normal J-whip where bit of string looped over stick hits axel and bit near tip goes outside far cup)

PM me if you cant get it from this.

[nev]

you have ...




Hopefully that clears up that business. Smile

looks from the pic like the same thing as I was talking about that I discovered when trying to work it out i.e the web between sticks version.  Still cant work out how to do the 2 suns to cradle though.  Please enlighten us all on this.

Here is a vid of the following whips to clarify things.
http://mynci200.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/diabolo/whips.mpg

Whips shown are:
1.  Web between the sticks (C-whip over left stick & poke right tip through loop - pull apart to web)
2.  Right J-whip to left trapeze (as learners often do by mistake when going for normal J-whip) - Flick the wrist to get loop to slip off stick so string nearest tip hits axel and also twist so string nearest hand swings out and around outside of far cup + up onto left stick (same thing without cathing on left stick gives you a plain frontwrap).
3.  J-Whip / Trash's Web combined - bottom part of web is in J-whip position  (same as if you do a normal trash's web then take diab out and lift it up into middle triangle of web).
4.  Shockwave - Right J-whip under axel and let slip off stick (loop will travel up string like a wave and up and over left stick - then you treat it just like a left C-whip i.e.  round far cup to left trapeze).

The last one theoretically has many variations that could be explored I think.

Hope this helps.

Please post any other whips / techniques ideas etc as I love them at the moment even though my arm aches from whipping.

[Nick]

Please post any other whips / techniques ideas etc as I love them at the moment even though my arm aches from whipping.

Here you go. I've been in the lab recently working out some new slack web-style tricks.
Web-o-rama
Unfortunately, its hosted on my work site so you will have to left-click, and it ruined my logical file name.
Enjoy!
Nick.

[TyeTye]

oooo.. nick..  those are... pretty!  

Will message if I have a problem picking those up.... they seem pretty cut and dry, but they're Very "magic knot, how the heck do they just come off"ish.    

::applauds::

[john_s]

thanks for that, nick - really glad you decided to film them in the end. i can do the first one pretty much every time now - what's odd about it though is i always end up in some kind of eiffel tower on the left hand side of the web! looks pretty great though, and very satisfying.

i really enjoy experimenting with slack tricks - the only downside is you can end up in some horrendous knots. it once took me almost 20 minutes to untangle one string, and that was with 4 people trying (i'm quite proud of this).

still, all in the name of diabolo creativity, eh?

/john

[TyeTye]

Sir Nick.  The first two, after a little practice were doable.. however i'm having problems seeing where your arm + slack goes on the last trick... could you explain in words?  

Thanks if you can.


tye.

[nev]

Yeah, those are sweet - many thanks for sharing.  

I'm also having trouble working out that last one (which is my favourite).

[Nick]

Glad to hear that you like those tricks. The last one is my favourite, too.
The entry starts like an inverse trapeze, crossing the right stick over the left one. The slack loop is then thrown with the same action as a normal under whip but the movement is exaggerated and the right arm comes around under the left. The slack loop created here doesn't go around anything, but comes with your right arm under the left arm and then comes over the diabolo's far cup and left stick tip from the far left in a clockwise direction. I then uncross my arms by turning the right stick so that it is pointing upwards, then taking the stick around the far side of the diabolo. No strings come off the sticks and you should end up in the web position.
The exit is done by passing the left stick to the right hand, then taking hold of the left-most string from around the axle and throwing the diabolo over the right stick between your body and the held string. Let go of the string held in your hand and the diabolo should be back on an open string.
If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask.
Good Luck.
Nick.

[Rivid31]

Awesome. My friend wes always does tricks like these, but I haven't gotten around to asking him about them yet, this got me started a little bit tonight. I'll practice them more at the convention tomorrow. Thanks to Sean and Diabolumberto for the translation/videos and everybody else. I'm still confused on whats going on in Trash's Web though. Could somebody try to give a written explanation? Thanks.

Edit: I found another discussion on this at http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=51&highlight=trash+web but any additional hints would be appreciated  

[john_s]

the trash web is a strange one - i didn't get it at all for about 2 months, and even struggled to sit down on the floor and work it out. but now it seems so simple, and i once did 26 in a row (far too much spare time) so i'll do my best to explain.

firstly, i find it so, so much easier to do it slower than both trash and all other videos i've seen. keep a longer length of string on your right rather than your left, and keep your right handstick pretty much parallel to the left one. when you're ready, lift up the right stick a bit to get momentum and straight away try and form the web (this is the tricky bit). the motion is up and out to the right (not just out, the up is important, about 45 degrees) and then an almost horizontal snap back to where the right stick was originally, remembering to keep it parallel with the left stick. the shape is almost a D shape, where the stick is pulling up to get momentum (only a lot smaller) and the curve is the whip motion itself.

the further away your right stick is from your left, the bigger the web will be. when the sticks are too close together the web will collapse a bit, and it doesn't look very good.

i hope that helps - oh, also, when learning this i found my short carbon and alu sticks to *really* not help. a set of long carbons and it worked like a treat - i can even do left handed ones now! (purely to learn that 2d trick of the week though).

good luck,
/john

[Rivid31]

Thanks, I'll give it a go after I get a little better at japanese whips. I think I understand how its done, but actually doing it would be the difficult part

[tommygrhcp]

That last one is amazing! (looks like a sideways star- ish) I figured out how to do it from still on the floor but its way hard in motion! lol

[Dennis]

hey!

I tried those slackwhips for ages but I just can't do them at all(they don't look very difficult.....).
So I went out and made a short video.

I hope you can help me because I want to be able to do those whips!

Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkeRAEWEswA

nice greeting,

Dennis(sry for the bad english..... )

[TomMiller]

What whip were you trying to do
looked well weird

[Dennis]

the normal J-Whip!

I need help you see.....

[TomMiller]

well you need to do more of a swing and you need to do a j type motion with your hands, if you get me

[Ben.]

were you even trying in that video???
didn't look like it...
if so then there are some vital points that you need to remember, don't move the left hand (the non dominant), pull up way more and come down quickly in a J shape. you have to guide the slack around the cup as well, this was a problem that i had when i was learning it, i could get the slack but most of the time it wouldn't go around the diabolo.

if you dont have success with the j-whip try a c-whip.

[Duncan]

I've merged your thread, Dennis, with this one because this is the trick  you're tying to do. Have a look at the first post and see if that helps you.

[-Leo-]

Just watched your video and I'll give you a few short tips on the motion. The video makes it look like you're a lefty so I'll try and give the instructions from a leftys point of view.

It looked like you're trying to lift the diabolo with your right and then whip it with your left. For you, the motion will be nearly all left handed so forget about your right. Just lift the diabolo up gently with your left and then whip it around with your wrist. -The movement doesn't nearly need to be as fast as you'd imagine, the slower it is the more slack the whip will develop which means that it's easier to catch the diabolos axel with the loop that you create.

There is little else I can say that will help you, as it's one of those tricks that's about the 'feel' of it. Once you've done it a few times you'll be able to do it forever.

Hope this has been of use,

-Leo

[Dennis]

@guppygould: No, I'm right-handed. I'm sorry if it looks the wrong way in the video!

[-Leo-]

Well just do everything I said but with the opposite hand!

[n3mo]

yeah, if you're a righty, the left hand really does just about nothing. use the right hand and wrist to shape and direct the slack.

keep it smooth - as guppygould noted, a fast movement doesn't necessarily work.

[Dennis]

I can do the J-Whip and two others now!

Thank you all for your very helpful tips, it helped a lot!

I'll try the Trash' Whip now!

Maybe I'll make a video in the next days to show you how I do it now!

[Dennis]

I can do the J-Whip and two others now!

Thank you all for your very helpful tips, it helped a lot!

I'll try the Trash' Whip now!

Maybe I'll make a video in the next days to show you how I do it now!

Edit:

I made a video with a little underwhip combo in it!
Thanks to everybody who helped me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9RWohSAFg8