Diabolo "firsts"

[DavidCain]

Hi. I'm writing an article for eJuggle, the IJA's online magazine. I'm looking for the first people to do the following tricks (not the current records, but the first person to accomplish it). Video links to any of these would be great. I'm mainly looking for n2 catches or more.

First to do four diabolos high.
First to do four diabolos low.
First to do five diabolos high.
First to do five diabolos low.
First to do a five diabolo pirouette.
First to do vertax.
First to do 2 diabolos vertax.
I have answers to several of these and wanted to see if what I have agrees with what you all say. Thanks.
David Cain

[The Void]

Hi. I'm writing an article for eJuggle, the IJA's online magazine. I'm looking for the first people to do the following tricks (not the current records, but the first person to accomplish it). Video links to any of these would be great. I'm mainly looking for n2 catches or more.

First to do four diabolos high.

In '94 I saw a dude do 4 high in a show in Le Mans, France. He had to have (at least?) 1 of the 4 thrown into the pattern by his partner. I always forget his name. He had a dog called Diabolo who was in the show too. "Hup, Diabolo, Hup!". Don't know if he was the first, but he's the first I know of.
Hang on a minute while I throw stones at Donald's window...

First to do four diabolos low.
First to do five diabolos high.
First to do five diabolos low.
First to do a five diabolo pirouette.
First to do vertax.

Lots of Chinese people, with Monobolos. In the west, with diabolos, Andy Premdas (UK), I believe.

First to do 2 diabolos vertax.
I have answers to several of these and wanted to see if what I have agrees with what you all say. Thanks.
David Cain

There may well be answers to more of these on the Planet Diabolo DVD.

[Duncan]

First to do 2 diabolos vertax.

Lots of people tried 2 diabolo vertax before Alex Grums. For instance, Nev at 5:10 of this old relic: www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKThPEIy-x4

Though even then, just two is small numbers to many old folks who do 5 or more with monobolos.

Marlborough Man with 5 diabolos

But if your question has more to do with 'who was the first to do it well?' or 'who did it on stage first?', then Alex Grums.

[The Void]

First to do 2 diabolos vertax.

For instance, Nev at 5:10 of this old relic:

Oh my gosh, that reminds me of another answer for this question...

Me!

Back in '05 I was messing around with sending an S-fan into vertax. A few times, it stayed there for a little while. But it was scrappy, and intended much more as a joke than a serious trick attempt. But, y'know, yeah, I sort of did it. Here's a pic of Barnesy from 2005 having a go too.
http://tlmb.net/galleries/BBU6/pages/page_104.html

But, what Duncan said about "well", "performing" etc.

[trash]

Luiz ask me on facebook to answer here. Hello everybody from here, long time not see!

I must be wrong, it seems there are almost only french guys in all my answer, that's strange...:

First to do four diabolos high -> The Void may be right, his name is Jerôme and his dog "diabolo". I don't know if he's the first, but it seems so.

First to do four diabolos low. -> Lucas, a french diabolist was the first to make several rounds with the help of someone to throw the 4th one. The first       one to start alone and to keep it: Guillaume Karpowicz

First to do five diabolos high -> Tony Frebourg

First to do five diabolos low -> Robin Spinelli

First to do a five diabolo pirouette -> Tony Frebourg

First to do vertax -> some Chinese guys. The name "excalibur" was given by Vincent aka "Ptit Vince" (in the guest in Diabology DVD) who make the vertax famous with a lot of new tricks.

First to do 2 diabolos vertax ->no idea, but Roman Müller (Tr'espace) was the first one to do a shuffle with two 'spinning-top diabolo' on stage.

[Duncan]

Speaking of 4low, Trash is right about Lucas and Guillaume, but also consider Dekel and Ofek and their work in getting 4low from 4high.

For instance:

4 diabolos low practice by dekel azulay

Guillaume had one of the first true low starts, however.

And I completely forgot about Roman. Film:

Diabolo.ca VotW: 9 july 2007, Tr'espace

[barnesy]

Here's a pic of Barnesy from 2005 having a go too.

Hah, I didn't realise there was any evidence of me doing wrong axis diabolo! And with such control!

And yeah, I was going to mention Andy P doing vertax in the mid 90s, long before it had any sort of name.

[trash]

Speaking of 4low, Trash is right about Lucas and Guillaume, but also consider Dekel and Ofek and their work in getting 4low from 4high.

Yes, that's true.

[Wis]

Such a beautiful development of a thread. Thanks Trash for passing by

I somehow cannot believe Etienne is not in this list... can we count first 4 diabolos sun? But maybe Robin got it first... the first I saw was online by Etienne

[donald grant]

Hey all!  Nice to see a thread that brings all the lurking dinosaurs out of the undergrowth

Four high has been traditionally performed by artists from China.  Duo Double face from Italy were performing it on stage back in 1998. 

Vertical play is also traditional for one-wheelers and saucepan lid players from China.  It was dabbled with back in the early nineties, mostly on open string rather than looped.  "Crazy Cradles" book has the gyro/ ufo grind in it, and that was 1993.

Two diabolo vertax, Roman was the first I recall doing this (but that's not to say he was actually the first...)

Will have a trawl through the archives and see if anything else jogs my memory...

[trash]

For the video links,
I think I never saw Jérôme on video, because it was before internet! I even don't find any photo of him. He was famous in France (in the juggling world of course).
Double face duo, you can find some picture or video. But it was only a flash (starting from a 2 high, with the woman throwing 2 more diabolos...Very disappointed the first time I saw them).

Lucas, that sure, the're some video somewhere, in some "convention video", but which one?? In this one, at 1'05 you can see Guillaume doing it with Lucas throwing him the 4th one (it's not Guillaume Karpowicz, it's another Guillaume, the friend of Lucas who wasn't the first one to do it, but he became better than Lucas then and could keep it longer).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdXNSgOhWpQ&NR

Tony doing 5 diabolos: he started in Swendborg in 2003, you can maybe find some footage. In 2004 he could do it well. The pirouette came at the same time, it's an easy trick for him.

Robin showed his 5 low to the world the first time at the end of this video (but he could do it since 1 year before the video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMxjOKDJGCQ

[Ronnie]

Robin showed his 5 low to the world the first time at the end of this video (but he could do it since 1 year before the video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMxjOKDJGCQ

Don't, mean to be too picky however it has been more than one year, this is a video from when he did it in EJC 2011 in munich, 2 years before the Black sheep:
Robin showed his 5 low to the world the first time at the end of this video (but he could do it since 1 year before the video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npQnT2ICdBU

I would also like to take this oppurtinuty to say one thing about the hover start with 4, I know that I am (relatively) new to the diabolo scene but this is the one thing that I actually know about.

Many people credit Robin with being the first person to do the 4 diabolo hover because of his video 'Alibinbin and the 104 hovers' however even in that video he stated that Alistair is the inventor. I do know for a fact that Alistair developed the 4D hover start without the help of anyone else and without the knowledge that there was someone else out there that was able to do it, however I believe that the first person to do the hover and get into a shuffle is Jonas Körner who was working on it from before 2011 (If I am not mistaken), he did however keep it a secret and I know that to this day his shuffle isn't as stable as Alistairs.

I think it is also important to mention that there was a man (who's name currently escaped me) who tried to do the 4 low wrap start back in Diabology however I don't think that it was meant to be anything more than a silly attempt.

I know that it doesn't directly relate to the original question but I think that this is an important story to share and this is a suitable thread for this answer if I've ever seen one 

[ASamJ2K]

Are "firsts" still being created today? and how long ago are these?

[trash]

I think it is also important to mention that there was a man (who's name currently escaped me) who tried to do the 4 low wrap start back in Diabology however I don't think that it was meant to be anything more than a silly attempt.

The man is 'me'  and yes, maybe I was the first guy to try a start with 4 low (I totally forgot that), but my record was 4 throws and I never recorded it (never qualified it, but I never worked it in fact). In fact, I had another 4 low start, which one was worked later by Guilllaume Karpowicz (with his variation), but I never work it enough to put a video. Tony was the first to try from high to low, too, with almost the same bad record than me (or maybe 5 or 6 throws). In reality, there is no real 'first' in this case. It's almost the same story than 3 low, they are several "bricks" to make the wall: chinese girls, Guy Heathcote, Lena Köhn, Tony Frebourg, Ludovitch and myself (then Ryo Yabe, Baptiste, etc).

Yes for Alistair, he was the first one to do the wrapped start with 4. Guillaume Karpowicz was the first to have a low start alone and to have a solid pattern with 4 (with the help of thousands mails exchange with me and Priam like I did with Guy Heathcote and Ludovitch  , thanks again guys!).
Before Lucas, Baptiste may had make a qualify with the help of someone (me or Jibe) to throw the last one. That's why Lucas worked on it a lot to beat the record of Baptiste (and he did), then Guillaume (the friend of Lucas) beated Lucas's record, etc...It's always 'one step forward' like.

For the 5 low, it's the same story in fact: Etienne tried it first with some relativ sucess, because he had the best 4 low pattern at this period, then Robin came and try to beat the record (and he did).

I'm feeling very old with this thread!!

[trash]

And to add a little of history (sorry David Cain, it's no more the main subject, it's just for culture), it's at the start of the 3 low history than we discover the difference between "synchronous" and "asynchronous" pattern: only Tony and myself had as solid 3 low pattern in 2003 (we're synchronous). Baptiste practiced a lot with us, and I teached him everything I knew about 3 low, but at the end, he could make it, with a strange pattern: the "asynchronous" one. We understood that his 2 low was different than us and saw than he didn't move the arms like us for 2 or 3 low. The asynchronous pattern helped a lot to understand the mechanism of the diabolo low and to find new tricks. At the same time, Priam and Jibe worked a lot on the siteswap for diabolo, and lots of new tricks were created thanks them (Priam's 'feed the sun' is now a classic!).

[trash]

And I forgot to talk about the missed Alexander Xelo, who was the first to do a real 4 high on big stage (Jérôme was the first one for sure, but he was busking, Alexander was in big circus with a bit more pressure): he started alone (throwing 3 diabolos by hand) and could keep it solid, a lot longer than Jérôme or Double Face Duo. He could do 5 diabolo high too, but not so good as Tony, who became the best at that.

I don't think there's internet in heaven, but "hello Alex"!

[LaNgErZ]

This is a great thread.

[Wis]

Said the first eiffel tower with 2D (I am not sure though)

[Timo]

This is a great thread.

I absolutely agree, this is a really great and interesting thread 
I also love seeing these old videos I never saw before!

[barnesy]

So David: were those the answers you had?

[donald grant]

I performed at the Lausanne circus festival with Double Face in 1999, and yes, there was a big difference between the promo image and the actual act.  I mentioned them as they were the first "Western" act that I could think of who were performing four high.

As for four high solo, without being "fed", then yes, Alex (Xelo) was probably the first.  Sad that he is no longer with us...

[DavidCain]

Well, I wasn't really worrying too much about self starts vs. assisted starts. Here's where I was starting from.

First to do five diabolos high.Tony Frebourg
First to do five diabolos low. Robin Spinelli (2013)
First to do a five diabolo pirouette. Tony Frebourg 2010

So, not caring about self or assisted starts and wanting qualifies, what can we agree on? I don't have to have answers to all of the categories, but at least a few would be good.
David