Author Topic: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume  (Read 6229 times)

Wis

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6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« on: October 28, 2016, 01:49:45 PM »
He states his goal was just to break the psychological barrier for the rest of the world since he thinks there are other better skilled people than him for diabolo low.
This happened with Circuses (!!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k1AbhKl2tA
"The string...the inertia...the hours"

Furlisht

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2016, 06:17:52 PM »
This is an amazing step towards the future! Impressive control!

Also I suggest you read the youtube video description, some great thoughts about diabolo shared there!
Julien H.

troposfera.net

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2016, 10:35:43 PM »
Nice hard work!

Quote
Also I suggest you read the youtube video description, some great thoughts about diabolo shared there!

and fully AGREE!!!

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

I was looking to the video in slow motion, and I found the siteswap for this 6 diabolo start....

I notice that Guillaume is doing 4 diabolos in 53 pattern ( 5 on the air, 3 on the string = 53F ), and he do 6 diabolos in 93 pattern  ( 9 on the air, 3 on the string = 93F ).

Here you can se animations of both patterns that i done with JugglingLab,  and also de 4 pattern siteswap to learn the start.

I hope that this help you with your trainings

4 diabolos 53F


6 diabolos 93F


4 diabolos TRAINING 53F to 93F
53F 93F93F909003F03F 53F



––––––

Thanks
Dídac



troposfera.xyz
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Wis

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2016, 08:32:24 AM »
Amazing work, thanks, Didac!
"The string...the inertia...the hours"

Timo

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2016, 08:41:53 PM »
I notice that Guillaume is doing 4 diabolos in 53 pattern ( 5 on the air, 3 on the string = 53F ), and he do 6 diabolos in 93 pattern  ( 9 on the air, 3 on the string = 93F ).
Hey, can you explain this? I don't understand the 5 on the air, 3 on the string thing. Do you mean the diabolo sliding on the string is a 3 and the diabolo in the air a 5 in this 4 diabolo sideswap patern?
That's a really interesting way to look at it actually. Because you always throw the diabolo from the left side to the other when you are right handed (which would be a 4 in normal known doabolo sideswaps) but I never thought about the diabolo which is on the string going from the right side to the left because you don't throw it. If that is what you mean, that is a really interesting idea. Even though I don't know what that would be useful for because that's normally how a Low Pattern is always like. There are always 2 Diabolos on the string and the rest in the air  :)

troposfera.net

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2016, 10:31:57 PM »
Hi Timo...

Here you can find the theory I'm developing  and all the explanations-> http://theory.troposfera.xyz/.


Quote
Do you mean the diabolo sliding on the string is a 3 and the diabolo in the air a 5 in this 4 diabolo sideswap pattern?
Quote
but I never thought about the diabolo which is on the string going from the right side to the left because you don't throw it

Yes I'm saying that the diabolo that goes by the string is doing a 3 and the diabolo that you throw to the air is a 5, in this specific pattern, you can do 4 diabolos in a lot of different ways.

If you are doing 3 balls cascade and you start throwing the left hand throws Bouncing or by a surface , your pattern didn't change is actually a 3333333, but you can write 33B to notice that one ball is Bouncing.

Bouncing throws can be like those:

    B  Bounce the throw off the floor. The format is to put as many B's as you want bounces, followed by the style of the bounce:
    L for lift bouncing
    F for force bouncing
    HL for hyperlift bouncing (for a description of hyperforce/hyperlift bouncing, see this discussion on rec.juggling)
    HF for hyperforce bouncing

       SOURECE
               http://jugglinglab.sourceforge.net/html/ssnotation.html

I was looking to my diabolo game, and some videos of jugglers doing diabolo and I realised that usually we Force the diabolo by the string. (this throw can change on some low cascades )

When we do an "usual" patten with diabolo one hand is Throwing to the air and the other hand is Forcing the diabolo by the string.

And in this case 4 low are done like a 53F.

Quote
(which would be a 4 in normal known diabolo sideswaps)

Then we can assume that 3 diabolos low in asynchronous can be 33F. But there are more ways to do them, keep reading and you will find them.

I Already did some Diabolo Cards Transitions where you can see some patterns and how to change from one state to another. You can download them on the site, or directly from here.
(http://troposfera.xyz/autodidactic/downloads/cards/Diabolo_Transitions_Cards_troposfera.xyz.pdf)

Also in the site there is a tutorial video showing how to configure Juggling lab for diabolists, and 4 download juggling labs that contains a diabolo image for the simulations.TRY THEM!


Quote
If that is what you mean, that is a really interesting idea. Even though I don't know what that would be useful for because that's normally how a Low Pattern is always like.



I think that this notation is very usefull because:


Siteswap is not about the height is about the rhythms.

Diabology siteswap is based only in the objects (4 high means 4 high height, 3low means 3 low height etc),
This siteswap that I'm introducing describes what the juggler do and the rhythms that the juggler execute, I find a lot of different patterns for 2, 3, 4, 5 diabolos, and I started to try all of them with 2D and 3D and it really works. Now I can go from hyper-high to hyper-low understanding what I do when I'm on a rhythm or in a transition, and make easier my trainings.

What hands do

This siteswap is telling you what are doing the right and the left hand every time that a throw had to be done, and make easier to understand the patterns, learn them and develop educative tricks to achieve our objectives more quickly.

The sticks and the waiting times

Also with Diabology siteswap you cannot write tricks with one diabolo and sticks and find variations for example, with this siteswap you can include the sticks in you notation find a pattern and get lost trying variations, like balls jugglers to with 423 for example.

Sharing not only to the diabolists

If we start to write our siteswaps like balls,clubs and rings jugglers do, we can try rhythms that they do that we probably never tray before , or star to put names that help us really to understand tricks that actually we do.


PS1:
I find some more educative tricks with 4D to achieve 6D... Here you have the Siteswap and the animation.

4D 93F33F33F


4D 93F53F13F


4D 93F93F9013F03F  . important! 3F103F = SUN




4D 93F95F3003F


PS2:
In 3D low what we usually name 42 is indeed a 5133 (5 air + 3 string + 1 air + 3 string = 53F13F).

Look at it
53F13F


PS3:
For sure I forget something.

 ________
Thanks for all
Dídac
troposfera.xyz
pervertidors de l'aire

Icebox

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2016, 05:32:02 AM »
I feel the need to apologize in advance in case I offend people, but the opinions that follow may be controversial:

I respect the stupid amount of technical skill it takes to achieve this feat, but I feel that this community - and Guillaume in particular - are better spent exercising their creative skills as well as their technical skills. I'm certainly impressed that this barrier is broken, but I can't help but wonder how far this can really take the discipline beyond some siteswaps and feed the sun patterns...? I guess I just find 3 diabolo and under more stimulating with greater possibilities but I just feel that lower numbers take lower physical and mental facilities simply to operate, let alone to create something new... I hope some of you all can understand what I'm saying and I'd love to hear some discussion about this topic, since the transition from 5low to potentially 6low (seems to have [at least to me]) happened much faster than the transition from 3 to 4 or even 4 to 5.

Feel free to DM me or reply here, as I said I'd love some constructive discussion!

Wis

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2016, 10:27:12 AM »
Well, I think it is a matter of personal preference mostly. I also favor creativity, and even the 1D creativity is more "harmonic" to me. But I must confess that seeing 4d low skills of Robin or Ronnie, Tyson... one can't but admire the beauty of the physics behind. And many tricks do have a great dose of creativity. Btw, in this case Guillaume has been exploring a lot with 1D or the trapeze collaboration.

And concerning siteswaps, check the 1d version of this siteswap with sticks included, it helps a lot to find free beats to nail an additional trick.
http://troposfera.xyz/autodidactic/theory/siteswap/complex-notation-including-the-sticks-usefull-for-1-diabolo-tricks/

But lets focus on the discussion of creativity versus skills. I think you can't complain so much, there are quite some people going that way. If you are in despair just watch Ba-balle in da Street again. :) Arthur, Henri, Arvi, Sebi, and maaaaaany others. Cheer up!
"The string...the inertia...the hours"

SebiHausi

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2016, 05:12:02 PM »
I always appreciate creativity and I am continiously fascinated with the crazy things some diaboloists come up with. Creativity is probably my favourite "ability" a person can have.
As far as I am concerned, I like to do a mixture of both, depending on my current mood. Sometimes when I am already tired and just want to relax a bit while doing diabolo I go for a pure skill practise. Other times when I feel like creating something new I go for a creative session. As already said, I don't see any reason why somebody has to choose between those two things  :-D.

Icebox

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2016, 07:18:11 AM »
Wall of text incoming:

I can't understate how impressive this is: even two years ago, I couldn't imagine even FOUR DIABOLOS being as "common" as it is now, and if you haven't read through the old threads, read through the topics where people were learning how to do three diabolos. It's insane how far we've come, and perhaps I'm just being naïve thinking that there's not much to explore with this many diabolos but... I suppose it's a part of my identity and personality as a diaboloist that I'm more intrigued by one and two diabolos where there's less to have to manage while still being able to do things that are difficult or creative. I KNOW that months and years have gone into making this happen, yet it just doesn't interest me in the same way that a clever twist on a classic trick does. The physics and sheer difficulty of what these artists are doing isn't lost on me, but it's a personal preference of mine to see what crazy new stuff their minds can generate (I understand that what I'm about to say is reductive and that it is a poor argument and I apologize) rather than the muscle memory they can train to be able to run 5d or 6d.

I'll stress it again: I can't even do 3d, so I'm in no position to criticize any of these artists. They're the forefront of the discipline and I respect what they're doing for this prop, but to me, the truest intricacies of diabolo lie somewhere deep in 1d, 2d, and even 3d given what bearing-oriented players have explored in recent years. With 4 or more diabolos to manage I just feel like you'll start to run into physical limits where you either simply don't have enough string to really work with everything on your plate or there's just too many moving parts to reliably manage (see the naïvety part from earlier), and it turns into derivatives of things that exist with lower numbers of diabolos.

Technical skill is nothing to scoff at, and I'm not trying to discredit Guillaume, Robin, Sebi, Tino, or anybody else who's pursuing these kinds of numbers pursuits, but each of these individuals has shown me that they have incredible amounts of creative potential in 'lower' numbers (even 4d for ALL OF THESE DIABOLOISTS which is BONKERS) and at this point in my experience I'd be more intrigued by what novel twists they can show me with 1d, 2d, or 3d rather than doing something hard, just because it's hard - like six diabolos.

I'm positive that I'm just not skilled enough with higher number diabolos to appreciate how difficult this is, but to me it simply seems like the same beat/pattern as a lower number of diabolos but pushing the pattern higher, which doesn't leave the same impression on me as a demonstration of a deep, intimate understanding of this toy we play with to be able to show me beauty that I could never imagine on my own.

@Wis I hope I don't give the impression of being unimpressed or disheartened! Guillaume is a role model of mine (would be nice if he was more active :P) and I've seen what he can produce with 1d in creative sectors working with simply trapezes and whip catches; what he's done to introduce dance concepts to diabolo is incredibly important in my opinion and I want to see how people implement it going forward. What are commonly known as beginner tricks take my breath away when he does them, and THAT'S why I come back to diabolo again and again. It's a beautiful object and I think that the depth of creativity is only just barely tapped.

@SebiHausi To your point about choosing between a "technical" and "creative" style, I'm not saying that ANYBODY should limit themselves to one style or another, but what I'd like to see for this community is greater enthusiasm for tricks that are newer but in a lower-number discipline; I want to see things that are new because they took lateral thinking or a different perspective on an existing concept, rather than something that's new just because someone hasn't done it before or because it's hard (in the case of 6d [and 5d a little while ago]). This is NOT to say that people don't have reason to be excited about this; it's hard as hell and I know that the people that have been trying to hit this for a long time will be thrilled to see it happen.......
Where this loses me is the fact that it's **in a way** always TECHNICALLY been possible - and what I mean by that is that it may have SEEN out of reach for a long time, but the transition from 4d to 5d happened, and after that it only seemed like a matter of time for the transition between 5d and 6d to happen. For that reason, this doesn't evoke as much of a reaction from me. The ways people push 2d and 3d have continued to surprise me, both in their technical development of preexisting concepts as well as the introduction of new setups with a wide array of possible exploration.

A;SDHRAIOSE;TEA;SETHE

THIS IS SIX DIABOLOS. I SHOULD BE SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS. I WANT TO BE EXCITED BUT I'M NOT. AND THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING.

This is so frustrating, it's so stressful to think that I could be stunting diabolo's growth, and a huge part of what's so amazing about this community is how supportive they are of each other; I love that all of the above mentioned players are pushing as hard as they are but more so I want to see up and coming players rise to the occasion and take up the reins where some of the older players that have grown up and lost the freer times they had in middle/high school - diabolists like Eljas, Joona, Funty, Crackers, LaNgErZ, William Campbell, M4U, Dodson, BUSK, (sort of) the Chauzy Brothers, Martijn Halekor, Arjan (active-ish on the forums but we need to see more footage from you because you're brilliant!), hell even Robin hasn't show up for a while (if all of these people are on instagram let me know and I'll investigate that shiz) and countless others that I simply can't name right now - but I don't want the numbers craze to take hold so hard that people lose sight of how fun and creative 1d and 2d are, not even to BEGIN on what possibilities 3d holds. (LMAO that was one sentence)

I have lots of feelings about this and I want to hear everybody's responses, you can DM me or reply here and I promise I'll get back to you :) If I haven't made myself clear or if there's anything you want to talk about further let me know!

There'll be more posts from me in this thread later and I think I've said what I want to the way I want to, so I think this will do for now. Looking forward to any and all responses I get, and discussion is what this forum needs, so here goes nothing! :P

Cheers everybody,

Ben :D

Wis

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2016, 09:56:22 AM »
So rough and honest, I love it!

After this long explanation I think you can be way less worried about being misunderstood :)

I think I mostly tend to coincide with you, but less viscerally. I even have tried to be active in latin america forums to promote "creativity" there, there is so much potential there...

Additionally, I have the hope that when more competitions will appear with time, and trust me, they will,  in battle or freestyle formats, this may give a push to creativity. I am hoping even for impact on style of the players. More swang around and so on.
"The string...the inertia...the hours"

Richard

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2016, 06:13:47 PM »
In response to Icebox.  I feel you that you've seen such changes in the last few years - I too have seen quite a lot since beginning playing 17 years ago.

From my perspective, there's no such thing as 'what diabolo is all about'. There will always be people who have interests in different areas: numbers, high stuff, low stuff, body moves, 1d, 2d, 3d, performance vs. play etc.

I don't think that this is what you're saying, however I've heard it quite a few times from different people over the years.

I think of diabolo styles like different types of music.

I say embrace the crazy numbers, just as we should any other stuff we're not into. As long as someone's having fun with it - go for it :)

Arjan

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Re: 6 diabolos low flash by Guillaume
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2016, 07:20:24 PM »
I don't think I really get what the message is with everything you are saying Ben.

Is it nostalgia perhaps that you try to describe? I could certainly relate to that.

I have never been a pure numbers beast, but I really enjoy seeing some of these crazy things. I enjoy working on numbers a bit, but I have completely dropped 4. I like working on numbers on my own reasonable level, and I'm very happy with that.
In the end, diabolo is a thing I like to do, and I should definitely do more of it. Life is more than just diabolo unfortunately. But, at conventions, I feel blessed mostly meeting the folks. Seeing everyone's tricks. Seeing old faces.

I have always been aware of how extremely fortunate I am to have seen the object grow in unimaginable ways over the last years. I kind of lost count, but I'm playing well over 12 or 13 years now. In the beginning it was sooo very cool to explore on my own, and I like to think that journey has never ended, although I must admit, nowadays I find myself doing the same stuff over and over again. When I started out, I would take one hour and I would have a bunch of new stuff. Nowadays, if I would aim for that, I could never do that. So much has been done. And the up 1 approach doesn't bring me the same joy, and doesn't really bring anything new. You could say seeing 6 low is the most boring thing to watch, because, at this moment, I don't think anyone expects it to go anywhere else then just round and round. Obviously, I'm not discrediting Guillaume here, or anyone who has pushed diabolo to the limits.

I don't know where I'm going with my training, heck I don't even train, just the occasional spin. But when I train, like always, I don't have much of a goal or structure. If I would have a show coming up, that is my main focus obviously.

I'm looking forward to the collab, seeing everyone again. I'm curious about what everyone is doing. I'd like to stay in touch with much of my diabolo friends much more, that's my own responsibility. I think we need to sort of do that for the community. That's why I still read the forums and occasionally post. Thanks to the admins and everyone. Diabolo.ca sure has seen more active days. But I'm glad it is still alive. So we can bitch about how boring numbers are ;)  Guillaume you are amazing!!!! (Seriously, I do prefer seeing him work on 1)
I really don't know if this adds anything to the conversation, I doubt it. So I might be as vague as the post I'm responding to. Ha.

 

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