Author Topic: Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?  (Read 4170 times)

onewheeldave

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Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?
« on: January 07, 2006, 01:08:14 AM »
Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?

A bit of beackground- I started working on 2 diabolos a year ago, in the Christmas period.Using 2 Henries Circus, I got to the point where I could throw in, get the basic pattern going, and do basic corrections.

However, none of it was consistent- occasionally I'd get runs so long that my arms started to hurt, but, in the main, it was just as likely to get fluffed on the throw in, or deteriorate after a few turns. same with the corrections- occasionally they'd work, more often, they wouldn't.

This was in spite of a fair bit of practice, and a lot of useful tips from various diabolo experts.

Perhaps worst of all, I often found practicing two diabolos to be very annoying, occasionally to the point of fury :)

Now I'm not unused to pushing myself to practice difficult skills- I've been a juggler for over 15 years, and learnt difficult stuff that took months/years, such as 5 ball cascade(currently around 200 throws consistently), two devil sticks (in the uncommom 'tic-toc' pattern, not as independant propellors), lots of advanced poi stuff, Muni etc, etc.

Yet I was finding two diabolos to be more emotionally difficult, than anything else I'd done, and ended up just giving up and focusing on other stuff.

Then, just before this Christmas, I started regular practice, and again found myself getting occasional long runs, but very little consistency; and being troubled by things like both diabolos consistently tilting away from me, and corrections making things worse.

One good thing was that I finally understood that my previous lack of success with 'wrap-in' starts, was down to a fundamental mistake in the way I unwrapped the diabolo- once I'd worked that out I found I could now wrap-in instead of the throwing in method I'd previously used.

However, I just couldn't get an intellectual grasp of what it was I was supposed to be focusing on- I can handle the fact that these things take time, but I need to feel that there's some coherent thing that I'm supposed to be working on, rather than just throwing them in and hoping for the best.

I also realised at this point that one of the problems was that the underlying frustration building up over a session due to drops etc, was excarbated by the Henries tendency to unexpectedly wrap and skuttle up the string into messy tangles- there's holes in my wall as a result of that :)

(incidently, maybe this expains why Henries make the best string- you need it for their diabolos).

Anyway, to get to the point, during a session which was actually going a little better than usual, but was still lacking consistency, I thought about having a quick go with the Beard Jumbo Glitz Flares that I have in my workshop bag.

I know that Beard diabolos aren't rated that high, and I'd previously not done anything with them other than use them for workshops, but, I remembered something that Dave P. said about his old Renegades being especially easy for getting a basic two diabolo shuffle going, and it occured to me that the hard plastic cups of the Beard Jumbos was quite similar to those of Renegades.

So I did a wrap-in start with two, and they kept going!

And I did it again, and again. Amazingly, when they went out of position, and I did a correction, they obediently got back into line.

I even found that I could ease back on correcting because the Beards could sustain a shuffle even if they were a little out, unlike the Henries, where any minor misaligment, unless immediately dealt with, would lead to disaster.

I rated the Beards as being 5-10% easier than the Henries; but then, having a few more goes with the Henries, I upped the estimation to more like 50-100% easier.

Of course, I'm under no illusions that I'll necessarily find Beards easier in, say, 2 months time- I'm sure there's good reasons why serious diabolists use Henries/Finesse/Yoho diabolos for doing 2/3.

But, I do think that, if Beards are in some ways easier for beginners, then that is significant.

Certainly I've had a much happier time than usual when doing two- it's nice to get a consistent shuffle going and inspires me to work on it more. I also feel that it's going to help a lot when doing 2 with Henries, I certainly think that my starting with Henries has already benefitted and become more confident- I also feel happier when correcting, because I at least know that the techniques I'm using do work (previously with the Henries, I just felt weary when attempting a correction cos I knew it probably would lead the diabolo getting worse rather than better).

So, what I'm wondering is how you feel about that, and whether any of you have much experience with using Beard Jumbos for two.

I'm kind of putting forward a hypothesis, that-

for beginners, at the stage of knowing the basics of starting, maintaining, and correcting a two-diabolo shuffle, that Beard Jumbos are, in some ways, easier than the usual Henries/Finesse.


(though personally, I've never tried 2 with Finesse, but they seem to be fundamentally the same as a Henries, just lighter).

Certainly, as far as I'm concerned, they seem considerably easier for me, and it will be interesting to see if some other beginners with 2 that I know will feel the same when I take them down to juggling club next week.

seán_

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Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2006, 02:02:44 AM »
I'd consider its the flares axles that help here the most, followed by the hard shells.

The V profile of the axle (soon to be redisigned, though in material not profile) is very simmilar to the renegade axle helps to gain speed quickly and also self correct to some extent

the slippy shells are nice to correct because you can be quite heavy handed with them without them gripping to the stick.

I'd still hesitate to recomend buying some but I would suggest people try different diabolos if they get the chance when trying to get the hang of 2.

As for wrapping up, I find that beards wrap up at the drop of a hat :)

Matt_

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Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2006, 02:33:08 AM »
i dont know...the main problem i always had for 2 diabolos was just the hand motion, i guess you could say the "pushing every diabolo" motion. i wasnt used to that, that's all.

for me, corrections were super easy. i got diabology and that, combined with Hall-sensei's advice, made corrections easy peasy.

backwrapping out of the shuffle/every pass was a whole different ball of wax, however....

onewheeldave

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Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2006, 02:35:03 AM »
If it's primarily the wider axle and v-profile, then maybe that could be the next add-on line for Finesse- a graded set of axles ranging from wide, for 2 diabolo beginners, then gradually switching in the thinner ones as they gain in skill :)

As for wraps, yes the Beards do seem prone when using one diabolo, but that's partly cos I tend not to use new/clean string, so for one-diabolo stuff I  use my new Finesse with wide-axle.

However, where two are concerned, I'm not finding wrapping-up to be a major problem, as the Beards don't need the kind of speed that Henries do.

One thing I've just discovered about Beard Jumbos, is that it's best not to have bare feet when they drop :shock:

Valium

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Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2006, 02:38:45 AM »
I think finesse with wide axles is worse than circus for learning two, they are lighter so the shuffle collapses easier and the corrections are more difficult

Chiok

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Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2006, 10:06:10 AM »
I've always been somewhat of a skeptic of rubber shells like you get on Finesse and Circuses.  I learnt the 2 shuffle with MB Jumbo Harlequins originally which are rubber, but have a smooth gloss on them.  Then I switched to Henrys Beach with plastic shells.  I used to find plastic easier to correct than the rubber because like Seán said, you can be more heavy handed with corrections.

I hated my Finesses when I first got them because the grippy rubber surface was catching my string, would roll over my sticks when I tried to correct and bundle up into a mess when they collided.  I almost gave up with them until I got the wide axles.  It seemed to give the diabolos more grip and easier to correct by hitting the two hubs instead of the cups.  But since I'd practised the basic shuffle with 2 plastic  Beach diabolos, I could transfer over as opposed to learning from scratch.

I won't deny learning with plastic shelled diabolos may indeed be easier and I recommend you learn the basics with them or shuffling and correcting.  The plastic can be more forgiving.  But when you change back to Circuses or Finesses, you'll find you'll cope better as you've got the feel already.

I now use Circuses, they're doing well for me.  I like the weight, and can back-up the "Don't drop on bare feet" comment.

And hey, if 2D is ticking you off big time, think how discouraged you'll be if you try and jump to 3D, so many diabolos to start up...

Chiok
www.gravityvomit.co.uk - Gravity pulls down, we throw up.
University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

seán_

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Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2006, 03:16:38 PM »
The shins, watch the shins. We have a pile of flares that we used for workshops, those that have been dropped on concrete have wicked edges. (we now use G2's because we are flash)

Beard do a few versions of the flare diabolo. If I had to recomend one I'd go for the flex version.

Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2006, 11:40:10 PM »
i'm sorry i'm a bit confused, i've been working on 2diabolos doing a wrap start, but i can't seem to unwrap, shuffle, correct... and i was wondering, i use 2 oddball medium radiant

"This is the medium sized version of our best selling diabolo. Being slightly smaller than the jumbo it is better for children as there is less to get in the way, and is also better for higher throws as it is lighter. Features full rubber cups for durability and a metal spindle for speed and smoothness.
Diameter: 105mm"

should i change my diabolos and get plastic ones, or am i overreacting because i just haven't practiced enough (about an hour a day since christmas!)!? also any tips would be greatly appreciated!

(p.s sorry if there is a similar thread, i couldn't find it when searching, may be because of my lack of computing skill)
Slimy SalamanderS Sip Steaming SoupS Slyly

Matt_

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Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2006, 03:07:56 AM »
yes there is a 2D thread, but i'd like to say something quickly...you got a diabolo 3 weeks ago and you're worried that you cant do the shuffle? i didn't even bother with attempting 2D until probably 6 months until after i'd started! 'course that's just me, i guess some people were probably doing 3D six months after they began...

onewheeldave

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Beard Jumbo Flares for 2 Diabolo beginners?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2006, 01:51:12 AM »
Quote from: DeadlyGreenWalrus
i'm sorry i'm a bit confused, i've been working on 2diabolos doing a wrap start, but i can't seem to unwrap, shuffle, correct... and i was wondering, i use 2 oddball medium radiant

"This is the medium sized version of our best selling diabolo. Being slightly smaller than the jumbo it is better for children as there is less to get in the way, and is also better for higher throws as it is lighter. Features full rubber cups for durability and a metal spindle for speed and smoothness.
Diameter: 105mm"

should i change my diabolos and get plastic ones, or am i overreacting because i just haven't practiced enough (about an hour a day since christmas!)!? also any tips would be greatly appreciated!

(p.s sorry if there is a similar thread, i couldn't find it when searching, may be because of my lack of computing skill)


A look around relevant threads here will show that medium diabolos of any brand are not considered good for doing two with.

Or indeed for doing one with :) the vast majority of serious diabolists will use the 'jumbo' size (generally Henriys or Finesse).

I think for two, using medium size diabolos is just making a already difficult job much harder.

-----


As for using the Beards, I've not had much chance for past couple of days- the limited time I've had to practice has been at night, and using hard beards isn't considerate to the neighbours :)

I have had a couple of insights with the 2 henries though-

1. I discovered my bad habit of lifting up my arms (especially when I'm starting to lose the shuffle) was having a really bad effect on correcting/maintaining the shuffle, and,by focusing hard, I've started to get the ability to lower the diabolos/handsticks so I'm looking down on them

2. realised that I'd fundamentally misunderstood something about correcting- I'd been doing all the stick contact at the edge of the cup, and wondering why I had so little control. Shifting the correction point into the region between the edge and the axle, has led to improvement

Lastly, I've upped my estimation of the difficulty of learning two, especially since reading some of the other posts on the board about how difficult others found it- it's nice to know it's not just me :)

 

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