Author Topic: The ideal diabolo  (Read 7232 times)

onewheeldave

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The ideal diabolo
« on: January 22, 2006, 02:20:59 AM »
What would the ideal diabolo be?

Currently the Henries Circus seems to be considered the best diabolo currently available, with the Finesse being a close contender, and preferred by some.

But, leaving aside what is actually available, and wandering into the realms of 'what if', do any of the expert diabologists here have views on what the ideal would be?

I'm thinking that it would include the best characteristics of both Circus and finesse- obviously it can't have everything, for example, a wide axle is good, but so is a normal one (depending on what moves you're wanting to use), and obviously a diabolo can't have an axle that is simultaneously wide and narrow :)

However, there are some 'best' characteristics of Circus/finesse that the ideal diabolo could have-

1. Cup rubber- in terms of ease of cleaning, I think the Finesse type comes out on top here- despite use of meths, solvents, Flash and all the other cleaning tips I've seen on this board, the fact remains that cleaning a Henries is more of an ordeal and less effective, than cleaning a Finesse

2. Cup style- personally I think the finesse is a bit more logical here, with the weight focused more towards the rim (but see point 3 below)

3. Weight- I'd say that, for me, the unmodified Finesse is a little light, and the Henries with normal axle a little heavy. While the finesse does the weight kit options, I'd prefer just a heavier cup (maybe as an option) as then the extra weight goes where it's best suited to- on the rim, not the center

4. Axle bolts- problem with Henries is that you need a socket set and a spanner to tighten/loosen it; I think I prefer the Finesse 'allen key' system, but wonder if there's any disadvantages to it?

5. Ready-to-go: I really don't like the current Henries practice of shipping the diabolo with what is, by todays standards, a rubbish hub that will quickly get ruined by metal handsticks. It seems a shame that it costs extra to get a decent hub, simply to throw away the old one- from a customer perspective, it's bad practice (I'd be happier for them to recoup possible losses caused by a big stock of old-style hubs, by charging say, £2/£3 extra for a stock diabolo with the decent hub)

So, to sum up, for me, the ideal diabolo would have finesse-style cup material and cup shape, but heavier.

Although, on the cup style issue, I'm aware that my reasoning is based on theory- the fact that weight is focused on the rim is theoretically good, but I can't help noticing that many good diabolists prefer the Henries style cup- is this purely because of the extra weight, or are there other reasons?

What other factors could go towards conceiving the 'ideal diabolo'?

JC

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2006, 04:01:07 PM »
concerning your 5th point,
meanwhile it is possible to get a modified Henrys Diabolo from me.
The cups and the axel piece is from Henrys, the axe is my development.
You could see this on my website ...
www.diabolonet.de - email to: diabolo-kits@web.de
MONOBOLOS, Henrys Circus, Vision and MB Finesse with round shaped axles

Matt_

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2006, 05:14:02 PM »
i already think the G2 is ideal as far as weight, shape, and construction. i would be interested in trying wider hubs (not axles...and with the same weight as standard, not lighter) though.

JGherkin

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2006, 07:28:22 PM »
Did anybody ever try that Hades Diabolo?

It was designed and manufactured by some guy who ran a Juggling Store in America.  Last time I visited his site was probs over a year ago and even then it was mostly down due to some kind of internet attack...can't remember the URL unfortunatly.

I believe it was based around the Circus which was only around in its basic form at the time.  The Hades Diab had a different type of plastic for the cups and used plastic for the hubs.  The major diff was an extra 1cm on the the thickness of the rim.

Sounded pretty sweet but would've cost loads to get one at the time.

hammerhead

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2006, 09:53:43 PM »
i havent yet tried a circus, i used to own a beard jumbo, and i own 2 g2s and think they are fantastic, i plan to buy a circus ant bjc in april

norbi

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2006, 10:55:24 PM »
Damn it Gherkin, now you've reminded me of that site and i cant for the life of me find it!

That's gunna bug me for so long!

update: I rock, i remembered! http://www.lelandfoster.com/seamons/
I knew it had a rhyming name, but i couldnt get jerkin gherkin out of my head! Finally seamons demons jumped into my head, a quick google search and voila.

Not gunna bug me anymore, yay.

Mithew

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2006, 01:09:08 AM »
i think that theres a sixth point for diabolos, what "upgrades" they have.  i like how its easy to get light and axle kits for finesse and they're not too hard to install.  I'm not sure if Henries have similar features
There are 11 types of people in the world.  Those who can count in binary and those who can't.

onewheeldave

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2006, 03:02:52 AM »
Quote from: Mithew
i think that theres a sixth point for diabolos, what "upgrades" they have.  i like how its easy to get light and axle kits for finesse and they're not too hard to install.  I'm not sure if Henries have similar features


I think with diabolos it's not so much upgrades as alterations or add-ons. The Finesse seems to be the diabolo most designed with alternative axles and weight kits etc.

But they're not upgrades in the sense of making the diabolo better- a wide axle for the finesse obviously opens up a lot more grinding possibilities, but its not a 'better' axle than the perfectly good narrow one that comes with the diabolo, which, for some styles or moves is more suitable than the wide-axle.

Unlike the Henries standard axle, which is, IMO, sub-standard- in that case the teflon replacement axles would be an 'upgrade' in the fullest sense of the word.

As for light kits and different axles, they are available for Henries; firetoys.co.uk has many axle/weight kit alternatives for both Henries and Finnesse-

http://www.firetoys.co.uk/juggling/henrys_circus_diabolo.html

http://www.firetoys.co.uk/juggling/mr_babache_finesse_g2_diabolo.html

(towards the bottom of each page)

Matt_

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2006, 03:58:35 AM »
i cant imagine putting LEDs on my circus....when i use LEDs on my G2 they are already pretty heavy. the circus is that heavy already..plus more weight....crazy

JGherkin

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2006, 06:54:50 AM »
Thanks for finding that Norb, I wonder why it seems to have gone backwards in development though.  A couple years ago when I was wondering what to upgrade to from my Radiants they seemed in full swing of producing and selling the Hades.  Now they don't even have any pictures.  :?

De Hoest

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2006, 10:27:14 AM »
For me, one of the best thing about the circus is the color, you have so many pretty color for the circus! But for the finesse, i just like the blue and the white, the others are way too flashy for me!
L.C.A.B. 2 : In progress

Chiok

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2006, 12:47:08 PM »
Quote from: norbi
update: I rock, i remembered! http://www.lelandfoster.com/seamons/
I knew it had a rhyming name, but i couldnt get jerkin gherkin out of my head! Finally seamons demons jumped into my head, a quick google search and voila.
With a name like that, I'm not surprised it is easily forgotten and hardly searched for.  Good sleuthing though.  I remember seeing that site ages ago but would never have remembered it.

As for point 1) I have to disagree.  I'm not very concerned with cleaning my diabolos so I'm not looking for a rubber that cleans easily.  I really do like the rubber on Circus cups much more as it's slicker making corrections a doddle when you're a lil heavy handed.

Chiok
(who's circus hubs haven't suffered too much from aluminium sticks.)
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University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

Nathan

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2006, 03:09:39 AM »
Adding to the five point criterion at the top of this thread, I feel it is important to add two more points.

1) The shape of the axle itself. Wide vs. narrow aside, I noticed that (non-modified) finesses have a "v" shaped axle, whereas Circuses have more  of a parabolic design. I'm not sure of the differences between the two, though  having tried both I am sure the difference in axle shape contributes to the difference in feel.

2)  Granted it is more difficult to clean, but the material circuses are made of does not scar the hands and forearms, and the same cannot be said of my finesses. I have heard it said that newer finesses don't cause injury, but my skin says otherwise. The material used in the cups of an ideal diabolo could be all finesse material, but with the rims made of circus material, so as to prevent visible injury. This may make the diabolo more complex (and possibly more expensive), which is something I wouldn't support, so I think I would prefer all circus material cups.

JGherkin

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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2006, 07:38:41 AM »
On the point of axle-shape, I am not so sure this is at all important.  If you compare a brand new circus axle with say one of mine there is a huge difference.  I have worn away a groove of approx 1mm around the whole thing.  The string sits perfectly inside this funnily enough and so in theory it could cause alot of friction but I can't say I notice any difference when using someone else's brand new circus.

Although it does feel a little weird watching myself use one but new circus' are a different shape to used ones, it may seem strange, but they actually did once have sharp edges  :o

Chiok

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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2006, 09:27:55 AM »
Quote from: JGherkin
Although it does feel a little weird watching myself use one but new circus' are a different shape to used ones, it may seem strange, but they actually did once have sharp edges  :o
I'll agree with that.  When I got my Circuses new, they were bloody sharp around the edge, sharper than my rings.  The quarrel I have over the Finesse cups is the material, it's just far too grippy and at speed can really burn.  Circus cups are more slick and glossy so touching a high-speed one doesn't rub off skin.

Chiok
www.gravityvomit.co.uk - Gravity pulls down, we throw up.
University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

Valium

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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2006, 01:59:52 PM »
Is rubber really better for the cup than plastic? I never tried a yoho but some said they prefer the plastic over the rubber thing

OLOBAID

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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2006, 08:58:41 PM »
I think, or i even know, every diabolo can cause serious injury! I have a pretty burn on my nose right now;o)
its true that the cups of finesse diabolos are very grippy but that can be quite useful for wall/floor/ceiling/girlfriend(it really wasn't my intention :oops: ) bouncing!
For me the finesse is the best choice, because of the possibilities given by the wide axle mod and the low weight, which really reduces danger.
I know people who broke their fingers making whipcatches from a great height, not to talk of burns. the lower weight is also great when you play longer time, especially with 2 or 3 Diabs. I think Popeye the sailor plays Circus, just look at his forearms! The weight of a finesse with the LED Kit is appr. the same like a normal circus, it is no problem to play finesse diabs with LEDs together with circus diabs.
I have to say that since the release of the new finesse (wich got a fatter rim) and the new light kits(which are protected now) finesse is a really good alternative, for me the best!
The wide axle mod(Evol. Kit No.1) is the greatest thing, you can start a grind, give the sticks to your brother order a pizza, come back and the damn thing is still grinding - up to 1 minute no problem!
Really hard is to use neon string together with 2 wide axle finesse, because of to less friction. Maybe working if you can make a double wrap when doing the wrap acceleration - i can't.
If you want to buy finesse diabs make sure it is the new version(the only difference is the rim of the cups which is fatter and shifted inside a little in the new version, the rim of the old one is flat, little difference great effect) some dealers still selling the old ones!

wow, this post became longer than intended :roll:
sorry for my english, greetz from austria
Peter

P.S.: I am looking for the holy grail of illuminated diabolo sticks!
Ok, it hasn't to be that holy, just to survive more than one failed genocide.
Nobody sees my fine stickwork in the dark, including myself - so if YOU know some thing PLEASE TELL ME!!!
If you theoretically invented something good(durable, maybe rechargeable and not heavier than a ton); I'm a good handworker, maybe i'll make a pair for you too!

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seán_

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2006, 03:36:38 AM »
OLOBAID the original question wasn't so much about what is the best diabolo (we all know which one it is ;) ) but what would be the ideal one would be
Quote from: onewheeldave
What would the ideal diabolo be?

Currently the Henries Circus seems to be considered the best diabolo currently available, with the Finesse being a close contender, and preferred by some.

But, leaving aside what is actually available, and wandering into the realms of 'what if', do any of the expert diabologists here have views on what the ideal would be?

<clip discussion on pro and minus points of certain diabolos>

What other factors could go towards conceiving the 'ideal diabolo'?


My current wishlist would be
Modular, offering options for weight and axle configerations
Plastic hubs rather than metal, probably the finnesse plastic over pom I think its better for finger grinds (not talking about yours JC but the regular profile ones) Also a choice of hub colours like diabigs so I can run simmilar colours but distinguish between them when working on tricks and amongst piles of diabolos at a convention.
Durable and with good shape memory
Resistant to scuffing as I am sick of cleaning them
Potentially just a tad smaller than current diabolos, I'm not sure about this just something that's been on my mind recently to do with multiple diaboloing.
Classical bell shape for stick corrections, rim biassed weight but not overly so.
Kind on the skin (and head from height)

We're not doing market research for Dave P. again are we Dave? :P

Valium

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2006, 03:13:47 PM »
Quote from: OLOBAID

Really hard is to use neon string together with 2 wide axle finesse, because of to less friction. Maybe working if you can make a double wrap when doing the wrap acceleration - i can't.

Imo does the wide axle have more friction than the normal finesse axle

great to have another austrian diabolo player here ;)

Matt_

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The ideal diabolo
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2006, 07:13:29 PM »
Quote from: Valium
Imo does the wide axle have more friction than the normal finesse axle


i dont think that's your opinion, i'm pretty sure it's a fact ;)

 

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