Author Topic: Getting others truly motivated to diabolo  (Read 9982 times)

Sean

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« on: February 02, 2006, 08:16:47 PM »
The latest Silver Creek Jugglers video got me thinking:

I've always wondered - how much of an influence did Sensei Hall have on your (Matt and Chris) interest in the diabolo? I mean, it's genuinely rare in North America to get anyone interested to a degree to have the self motivation to learn and come up with the stuff you two have. I've taught the basics of 1 and 2 diabolos to a lot of people, but never found or inspired anyone who was committed and interested enough to practice and learn on their own. As soon as I'm out of the picture they stop practicing.

Mostly I just want a diaboloing friend to play with! :)

Maybe that's why I enjoy the forum so much - because it's possible to help others who are truly motivated to learn on their own.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on the factors involved in getting someone else truly motivated to diabolo (or even juggle in general)? How much is based on finding the right person? How else can you increase your chances of getting someone interested enough to learn on their own?

Jester

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2006, 10:36:43 PM »
I think its a brain thing

u gotta find someone who thinks in a certain kind of way
I truly feel that Diabolo paradigms fit in my head really well

as for insprireing them flashy easyish tricks are a good start

whip catch, knots high

stuff they can show off with
do it, do it ,do it, DO IT!

Ben

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2006, 12:00:12 AM »
hum yeah i think the best way to get someone interested is a BTB whip catch  lol

but after that its really just the kind of person they are and how much they really care about learning and practicing

i think it also depends on how well you can teach them stuff

yeah i need some diabolo people near me but then my problem is that if i teach them i would probably be better than them so then i wont really lean anything new from them =/

Dracodragon

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2006, 01:11:13 AM »
Yeah when I first started diabolo, I couldnt even spin it for like 2 days >_<. then again when I started i wasnt really serious, I actually was considering on doing devilsticks, but i dunno its kinda hard to explain. After I saw some of halls tricks I was like "that is freakin impossible", and I always wanted to do something that requires skill and thought (and aslo creativity) so the diabolo just stuck with me. I actually havent even had my first diabolo for a year yet(end of this month will be a year)!  :shock: Before all that was just messing around, probably picked a diabolo up about 5 times then kinda got mad I couldnt spin it. I give great thanks to Hall for inspiring me on lots of things with the diabolo, and also teaching me things I had trouble with too.
 
Anyways, I think it is kinda of like what Jester said. You have to have an interest in this kind of stuff, but pulling off crazy tricks infront of a nonjuggling crowd may inspire some. It would be pretty cool to live in a world of diaboloers, hehehe more competition all around.
Go Draco with your Diabolo!
http://frogfighters.com/godraco/

Matt_

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2006, 03:29:31 AM »
well i guess since someone formally asked, i can explain (thanks Sean ;))

Besides diabolo, i do balls, cigar boxes, and kendama. i do own clubs, but i never really found much motivation in those. And I've often wondered too, how to get people motivated enough to juggle? Like you said Sean, I just want a friend! I've succeeded in interesting a few people in juggling. I visited NYC with my friend and his girlfriend last month, and I taught them both how to juggle. The girlfriend was actually interested, we went down to the Dube store (on Broadway) and she bought 3 beanbags (those new ones that Dube has, like 3 bucks each, great deal) and she is excited about juggling and she even shows her friends.

The first time I saw "serious" juggling (that I really remember) was from Hall-sensei, actually, at the Silver Creek Winterfest in December 2001 (I think.), when I was a freshman. It was a while ago and I wasn't into juggling much, I do remember it being a sweet glow in the dark routine though. I didn't really pursue anything after that. At the time, i was REALLY REALLY into music and skateboarding, and I don't know, although the juggling was awesome, I didn't have any ambition to do it myself. It's not like I didn't know what ball juggling was---I'd actually owned the Klutz juggling book/3 ball set for years (I still have two of those balls....they looked a lot different back then!).

My junior year, for some reason, Hall-sensei came into my English class to teach everyone to juggle 3 balls. I learned in class exactly what I needed to do, I just needed practice. I went home and was determined to learn, so I searched, and I found 3 bean bags--crappy, crappy ones that weren't even round, more like pancakes. But I practiced all the time, all summer long. I have many memories of waiting for CS to load, and working on my cascade whilst sitting at my desk. From that, I pretty much mastered the standard 3 ball cascade, but I had nothing beyond that---and really, no ambition for more.....yet ;)

So if you've read this far, the answer to Sean's original question has already surfaced. How did I stay interested in juggling? Well, I interested myself. The summer after junior year, I juggled by myself, for myself. It was a standard 3 ball cascade, but hey. I got myself into it. But what about other props....? read on....

I actually took Japanese at Silver Creek for a non-juggling reason. I had taken Spanish for 3 years and I was just sick of it. I was starting to get more interested in all things Japanese (mainly their women, food, and anime), and I figured a change was good. Plus, a lot of my friends were taking Japanese. So I took the class, and I had a great time. Anyone who’s been in the Japanese program knows that it’s a lot of fun and you get to learn a lot—best of both worlds, eh? After a few weeks (was it a few weeks? Something like that), I saw fliers posted up around the school for a Juggling Club in D5. Hey, that’s my Japanese class. I figured that I’d give it a shot, see what I could do, yeah?

Juggling club was awesome. I'd never even heard of diabolo, cigar boxes, kendama, devil sticks, or any of the other obscure props hiding away in the classroom (yeah, he has some weird ones, some aren't very fun either). I'll always remember the day we learned diabolo. We had wooden sticks, white Henry's string, and a choice between Renegades, or these crappy plastic diabolos with a brass (is it?) combined hub and axle. I think I caught on to the general "roll it this way and spin it up" thing pretty quick, and I remember being anxious to learn more, for example this girl and I tried passing two diabolos (TWO DIABOLO PASSING! you heard right!). Heh, I asked Hall-sensei how to do whatever the hell he was doing to accelerate the diabolos (a wrapped orbit, it turns out) and he wouldn't teach it to us until we got better at the very basics. That speaks a lot to his teaching style---master every step of the way before you progress, and you'll have a stronger foundation to build on. At least I think that’s what he was trying to teach us. Maybe he just never wanted us to get better than him…

So we were introduced to a lot of props, and had a chance to do whatever we wanted after we were introduced to them, but I mainly stuck with diabolo. Why? Well, it's kind of ridiculous, but to me, diabolo was the easiest prop, and the one I could see the most progress with. I just kept sticking with it, and getting better at it, and look where I am today!

So how did I stick with juggling? I think the answer is constant exposure, most importantly, from someone better than me. I didn't really stick with skateboarding, mainly because none of my close friends were any good at all. I had no motivation. But with juggling, as soon as I walked in the classroom door, I'd hear "heyyyyyy Matt-kun come check out this new thing I'm working on." How would you like it if almost every day you saw an amazing juggler working on diabolo/boxes/clubs/kendama/balls? Of course, a lot of other people saw this, and they aren't so motivated, so maybe there is a flaw in the logic. But getting to hang out with a cool teacher, and your friends, while learning new stuff, is surely a winning combination for me, anyway.

Sean, you are an amazing diaboloist. I don't really know what you do in your free time with your friends---but maybe you should incorporate juggling into it! When I was hanging out with my friend in NYU, he said, "man, juggling is so cool.....you should do it to get chicks" and I laughed and shrugged it off, but hey, maybe it's true. The people that I have juggled for have, by and large, been really impressed. I do my best to influence at all times....my best friend Chris (Chris_ on these boards, who also went to SC, took japanese, etc) took a long break from diabolo, and recently I showed him a lot of new 1D tricks and even inspired him to buy a 2nd diabolo, and he's already learned the shuffle! I'm really glad that I influenced, and I'm always looking to do that more and more. Of course, my roommate still won't juggle, even though I offer a lot (and his girlfriend LOVES it, comments like "sugei" and "kirei!" [oh, she's Japanese, by the way....saying things like "amazing" and "pretty])...hmm, maybe he's afraid of sucking? Who knows.

But it's true, my primary influence was, and has been, Matt Hall. When I think about it, all of my friends have the same damn name too, so it's hard to mention it, because besides Matt (Hall) and Matt (me), there’s Matt (Boxthor), Chris (dracodragon), Chris (Chris_), David, and more who influence me greatly. Thanks guys, I appreciate it. Especially you Chris…damn your 3D shuffle and your smooth vortex combos…I’ll get there…

Sensei, I don't ever really get a chance to tell you this, but you are a huge influence to me---in a lot more ways than you probably think. For that, a deep bow of respect. 本当にありがとうございます! (<--because romaji sucks :P)

....and thanks to everyone else for reading my whole freakin life story :oops:

Chiok

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2006, 11:50:22 AM »
Damn, that is your juggling lifestory.  Glad it only started in 2001 :wink:
I must say, the Internet has been crucial to my education in the juggling ways.  The club I'm with, although a great bunch of people and jugglers, they've managed to get to their skill levels just by practising and coming up with things themselves.  Alot of them have no idea of the limits of juggling or some of the top people on the scene (I've tried to educate them).  This forum has been great inspiration in learning so many tricks and ideas and history and it's a great resource for diabolo.

I found my first diabolo at Toys R Us when I saw it in the "Sports" section, just a lil 100mm brass axle jobby with wood sticks and parcel string.  I bought it for a joint 19th birthday party I was organising with my girlfriend and we had space-hoppers, twister and all other funky junk so that people could play with things instead of just hanging around in a rented out club drinking (that's right Americans, we drink at 18! [and younger...]).  I learnt to speed it up and a trapeze, and a lil throw and that was about it.

I became interested in the juggling arts from my best friend at school who discovered poi.  I've always been interested in the manipulation of things and could already spin a staff, not knowing it was a form of juggling manipulation and not a martial arts discipline.  I learnt a bit of contact juggling with acrylics and that was about it.  It was really when I came to Uni that it all started.

I used to play in a band lots and lots when I was in school but when we all left for Uni or unemployment benefits, it kinda stopped so I didn't really have much to do anymore.  I guess I needed something to fill a void and juggling became that (it's being discussed on rec.juggling).  Seeing a guy do glow poi really got me going about it and then I saw more of juggling.  In retrospect, the level wasn't very high when I started and alot of the experienced people had left or graduated.  But I got into it and started juggling more.

I tried the diabolo again after seeing the 2 diabolo shuffle and wanted to learn more of that.  I was alot about staff earlier but when I couldn't find anything more to do with it, fire spinning didn't really appeal anymore.  I then proceded to try pretty much every form of manipulation I could get a prop for and learnt a few moves with everything.  I eventually settled on diabolo and kept it as something I practise regularly.

Back to the original question, from looking at my juggling society, it is about how different people's brains work.  Very many of the members are either engineering students of some form, or maths students of some form.  Very few of them are humanities (which we shun as being doss courses).  A guy I lived with in my first year is a Maths/Comp Sci person that I became friends with and over the year he became exposed to fire spinning and wanted a fire staff.  Then over the next year when we spent more time together, I showed him more of the juggling world and he became more ball and club juggling.  He's now my passing buddy that we do ball, bounce and club passing with (its the only good thing I can think to do with clubs).

He's probably the only example of a person I exposed to juggling and he's kept with it.  He's really busy so doesn't practise as much as I do, but he's definitely kept with it, progressing with 5 balls and clubs.  I guess the guy that kinda spurred me to do diabolo, I have alot to be grateful for, even though I think he's an arrogant moron.  But the Internet definitely gave me more enthusiasm.  And when I got that invitation off of Rec.Juggling to come visit, well, the rest is history.

But it's definitely something to do with the way a person's mind works as to how they interact with juggling and either become a hardcore sports juggler or a freaky crystal hugging hippy who likes meteors and hula hoops.  I'm particularly impressed with Chris' (Dracodragon's) statement that he's not even had his diabolos a year, and he's already getting a good 3D shuffle.  How I hate him for that...  But I don't think that's possible without the right state of mind, and the right inspiration.

Definitely something to think about, and hopefully not as long as Matt_'s story.

Chiok
www.gravityvomit.co.uk - Gravity pulls down, we throw up.
University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

Pete

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2006, 03:47:26 PM »
What really got me started, and got me practiciing at home in my fre time was seeing a 2d shuffle for the first time.  I immediately wanted to be able to do it. After a few weeks i realized there was slightly more to it than that and sort of gave up on 2d for a while and practiced things like acceleration s, around the leg and trapezes.
THen later that summer i met Professor Panic who some of you may have met somewhere. I know he had a big influence on Norbi  but i didn't know that at the time.He was running workshops at the festival i was at. And It was there that i found out for the first time that more things were possible and one of the people in panic circus told me that 3 diabolos was possible. I guess it was from then onwards that i really began to learn. I bought some mr.b harlequins and it went on from there.

I've figure that it is mainly about the kind of person. I've always wanted a diabolo buddy so we could learn together and teach each other things so i have tried to get people into it. At school at the moment there are a few people  who enjoy it and practice at home but don't goo and look for new tricks like i do every day on this website.
And what i can't figure out is what motivates people to do that.
The tallest trees from acorns grow.

hammerhead

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2006, 04:43:03 PM »
i bought my first diabolo when i went on  caravan holdiay with my friend and his family. i was really bored and bought a childrens one for £1.99. then i started doing it more and more.

i have a friend who taught himself to juggle when he was supended from school for a month.

Andy S

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2006, 12:30:06 AM »
I started juggling a few years ago, and unfortunately I can't remember why I started (other than that I did flower sticks first).  Now, I'm completely obsessed -- with both juggling and diabolos.  I prefer technical juggling, so diabolo is my new artistic joy.  

Since last school year, I've gotten three people committed to juggling, but only one of them (he now diabolos as well) got as into it as I have.  I'm pretty sure he was interested in juggling because he's a math genius and loved siteswap theory (which I did a school presentation on last year).  Maybe the people that go for it like the mental part as much as the physical; he understood all kinds of knots, wraps, and stalls within a couple weeks while it took me all summer to even recognize them.  Maybe it helped that I hadn't started diaboloing too long ago and clearly remembered what beginning was like.  I'm afraid I'm a bit condescending when I teach juggling now.

His name's Carl, and he reads this forum; sign up Carl -- you know you want to.

Cool discussion.
Andy

jake

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2006, 08:56:34 AM »
what got me motivated to practice a lot, was a lot of the videos on this site...i didnt realize the amount of vids on the forum here then, and so i watched all the videos that Sean made...that got me wanting to learn 2 really bad...

then when i went to the Juggling and Unicycling Festival in Berkley, CA
and had a lot of people help me learn 2diabolo starts better, i began to really practice a lot!

also while i was there i met Chris, (one of the crazy silver creek diaboloers) and since the fest, we've kept in contact and from then till now he's been my biggest motivation because i see what he's doing and i really wana get to his level...

right now im working on my own trick ideas and am really looking forward to a trip where my far-away friend and i can really make some cool vids and just diabolo, ALL...DAY...LONG...i honestly can't wait...i would be dissapointed in myself if i didn't make the 5 hour long drive worth it by diaboloing every spare moment!

wanting to get to the lvl of my peers is what motivates me the most, i wana be able to explore the realm of diabolo passing. imo, i think thats where it's at   ;)

J_J777

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2006, 01:30:27 PM »
Mithew was the one that really got me started on diabolo.  I went over his house one day and he had a harlequin and this millenium diabolo (freaking small piece of...) anyways...  He showed me a couple tricks including infinite suicide :D  but i didn't really wanna try it.

I was gonna be there at his house a while so what the hey, i'll try it.  I practiced at his house and he showed me how to speed up the diabolo by jerking on the stick (man that acceleration ...) anyways again back to the story.

He also showed me inverse trapzee, waterfall, half spagetti and yes, the whip catch  :P  I went home and i remember trying for 5 mins to show my mom the inverse trapzee cause i kept messing up.

I then starting working a little with his circus arts class and over that period of time i got various knots, some knots, and other tricks like that.  I then saw Jacob and Nate Sharpe perform in the ghana benefit show.  and I was like 2 diabolo suns! (i didn't know what the heck it was called) and when i saw Jacob's insane transfer combo i was like woah I wanna do that.  So my friend somehow talked me into doing the talent show with him (my best trick was prolly whip to duicide which I could do like 1 out of 2 times while his infinite suicide walk around was solid do it in his sleep! and of course he did better except for the passing!  GET THOSE THROWS BETTER OR ELSE!!!)

So over that summer i ordered 2 finesse and sold the harlequin i had bought from my friend.  I also ordered aluminum sticks (aluminum sticks are better than carbon fibre  8)  ) and yellow string.  I learned the two diabolo shuffle over the summer in about 2 weeks for shuffle, 1 month to get corrections and back wraps and a couple suns.  And I discovered diabolo.ca and have just progressed till now.

I can't believe how that one day scr... i mean changed :)  my life, well right now anyways.  Me and my friend have just motivated each other to do better and help each other with some tricks.  

Josh

Mike247

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2006, 07:45:08 PM »
I started  Diaboloing when I saw "Guppygould" doing it in school, he could only do like a whip catch and stuuf like that back then but everybody was amazed. I decided to buy one and try it out because he seemed to enjoy doing it. So I tried it on my own at home first and i really liked it. Eventually about 10 dedicated people where getting together at dinner and diaboloing. Eventually a guy named Bill asked my head teacher (everybody hates him) if we could start a club after school, he agreed.

Anyway I got my cousins started when they saw me diaboloing, they where really amazed by a throw. :lol:
I am a Port Pirate

dynamaniac

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2006, 10:38:24 PM »
i got my first diabolo (jazz) after i learned how to diabolo at summer camp. each year at least one kid would bring his diab (it was always a guy) and then one year i asked to try and i figured out how to make it spin, climb the string, and fly really high.
that was a really long time ago. maybe5 or 6 years.
i used the jazz on and off, never really progressing. then towards the end of my junior year in high school (about 8 months ago) i brought it to school and realized how easily amused non-diaboloists can be when a diabolo is thrown into the air. so i found this forum, learned whip catches and grinds and trapezes, and i bought a circus and some decent string and aluminum sticks.
and now im here.

chiok the 21 drinking age here is like a 10cm-high hurdle ;)

Matt_

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2006, 01:29:36 AM »
wow, it seems that hardly anyone here had a real "role model" that they hung out with and diaboloed with...almost everyone found their influence, and kept at it themselves.

now if only we could get more people to do that..  :twisted:

Quote from: dynamaniac
chiok the 21 drinking age here is like a 10cm-high hurdle ;)


yeah, seriously.

Chiok

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2006, 09:40:14 AM »
I guess the number of people that could really be classed as "role-models" for people to learn diabolo from is a bit small compared to the number of people that do diabolo.  I have to say that I'm a rubbish beginner instructor, I find it difficult to engage the kid long enough to get the diabolo spinning first BEFORE trying to launch it into the air.  In this day and age, I guess it's more common for people to look up and learn things from the Internet themselves than going to conventions and such (which you'd only do if you juggled other things.)

And, it's not a mission to overcome the 18 drinking age here.  But I can't imagine a 16 year old in USA having an easy time being able to get a drink in a pub.  Not that it's big or clever to drink underage.  If I've got any advice, its sooo not worth it.

Chiok
www.gravityvomit.co.uk - Gravity pulls down, we throw up.
University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

Matt_

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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2006, 06:45:33 PM »
damn you Chiok, the US is different, people usually dont hang out in pubs---we stay at home to drink (or go to restaurants..). i have many a story to tell, but considering this is a diabolo forum, i won't ;)

anywho where was i.....ah yes, launching it into the air. i hate teaching kids to diabolo because they never want to pay attention (shorter attention span than me  :shock: ) and they wont stick with the basics (having control of the diabolo) before throwing it up.

here in the US, the diabolo is so...unheard of. i know of ONE shop within driving distance of here (actually, i guess in the entire state) that sells diabolos. i wish that people would know about it from childhood or something...well whatever, when i have kids, im gonna make sure they know about juggling, and spread the word to all their friends, who will then spread the word....juggling will take over the world :twisted:

dynamaniac

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2006, 03:26:45 AM »
yeah the cultural differences between the US and the UK are huge. diabolo is very rare here - even in san francisco, a great city with shops where you can buy crazy bondage gear for cheap, its impossible to find a circus or a finesse. ive always bought my diabolo equipment online and ive learned most of my tricks online too.

pubs? yeah the UK is a lot diff. i really want to visit! i guess i'll save that for later in my life. and maybe hang out with the great diab community you guys seem to have over there (by then i should be better.. i hope haha)

Ginger_Tom

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2006, 10:02:00 AM »
I got into Diabolo by going up to the pub where me and spink, sambo and jammy hang out. I used to do yo-yo, but couldnt be bothered anymore because there was nobody to play with. I'd seen spink playing diabolo previously, and was always impressed but never tried it. We then went to a convention in Sheffield and I was absolutely blown away by the stuff I saw with one and especially 2 diabolo. Dave P was there doing 3 aswell!
But then I bought one, and just about 9 1/2 months later, I've finally cracked the trick I've wanted with 2d ever since i saw it, the S-fan. But basically, spink taught me the basics, and I took it further. It was the same for Jammy and sambo too, and still is. We have a new prodigy anyway, so watch this space. He's tried 2d about 4 times for about 10 minutes a time, and he's nearly got fans. Now THATs inspiring, need to find a new trick to work towards now. laters
Out of focus lovin', Mark_BMC you legend!

Mithew

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2006, 10:14:43 PM »
Quote from: J_J777
Mithew was the one that really got me started on diabolo.  I went over his house one day and he had a harlequin and this millenium diabolo (freaking small piece of...) anyways...  He showed me a couple tricks including infinite suicide :D  but i didn't really wanna try it.

I was gonna be there at his house a while so what the hey, i'll try it.  I practiced at his house and he showed me how to speed up the diabolo by jerking on the stick (man that acceleration ...) anyways again back to the story.

He also showed me inverse trapzee, waterfall, half spagetti and yes, the whip catch  :P  I went home and i remember trying for 5 mins to show my mom the inverse trapzee cause i kept messing up.

I then starting working a little with his circus arts class and over that period of time i got various knots, some knots, and other tricks like that.  I then saw Jacob and Nate Sharpe perform in the ghana benefit show.  and I was like 2 diabolo suns! (i didn't know what the heck it was called) and when i saw Jacob's insane transfer combo i was like woah I wanna do that.  So my friend somehow talked me into doing the talent show with him (my best trick was prolly whip to duicide which I could do like 1 out of 2 times while his infinite suicide walk around was solid do it in his sleep! and of course he did better except for the passing!  GET THOSE THROWS BETTER OR ELSE!!!)

So over that summer i ordered 2 finesse and sold the harlequin i had bought from my friend.  I also ordered aluminum sticks (aluminum sticks are better than carbon fibre  8)  ) and yellow string.  I learned the two diabolo shuffle over the summer in about 2 weeks for shuffle, 1 month to get corrections and back wraps and a couple suns.  And I discovered diabolo.ca and have just progressed till now.

I can't believe how that one day scr... i mean changed :)  my life, well right now anyways.  Me and my friend have just motivated each other to do better and help each other with some tricks.  

Josh


i also think theres the fact that Josh can't stand to be second best at anything, so when he saw me doing diabolo, he decided he had to beat me at it (and he has).
  I got a little chinese yoyo three years ago, but i didn't do anything with it (i didn't know you could do anything with it) until i saw Jacob Sharpe two years later.  It was incredible, and i was truly inspired.  Afterwards, i went to diabolo.ca and artofdiabolo and saw some videos of the best diaboloist, and i practiced a lot over the summer.
There are 11 types of people in the world.  Those who can count in binary and those who can't.

J_J777

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Getting others truly motivated to diabolo
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2006, 10:50:11 PM »
and you can't stand an opportunity to insult me :D  haha.  oh yeah matthew i got 15 catches with 5 balls with a clean finish :D

 

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