Author Topic: Music in videos  (Read 12578 times)

Matt_

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Music in videos
« on: June 23, 2006, 07:13:29 PM »
yeah, i've been doing a lot of thinking about juggling vids lately (like my streaming topic), this is my latest thought, i had to share.

anyway, the topic is music. no one really wants to see a video without music (although, it can be used as a nice technique, i saw a skate video once like that). everyone puts music in their videos.

problem is, i see a lot of complaints! and it kind of bothers me. look at Chris' new video. i actually enjoyed the music, Eminem, i've had that CD for a few years, and Carlos Santana, well meh but it fit with the diaboloing and didn't grate on me.

i tend to think that my videos have good music; i spend a lot of time thinking of the RIGHT music for my videos, not just the music that i like. i watch a lot of videos, and some people have some pretty cool music, which i really appreciate.

i think there are two problems here:

1. people are just picky. i don't mean to judge here, but some people have really narrow interests in music. in other words, you're only interested in one type of music and you're unwilling to accept anything else. come on people, don't deny it, i know you're out there. i personally know a lot of people like this.

2. the music just plain sucks. you can't just pick a tune that you like and stick a bunch of random clips of you juggling to it. instead of just picking a song that you like and then just randomly placing clips, you should think about the theme, think about what mood you're trying to convey, then pick a song that suits it. THEN edit accordingly. i'm sick of seeing videos that have crappy music and boring editing. i mean, you could film the MFP and put them in one of these boring videos and it would still suck. good editing, filming, and music goes a long way.

so those are the two problems i see. and when 1 meets 2...the results are deadly.

i don't really know what to do, i mean, i'm not gonna get people to change their mind and be more open to music, and people are always going to post music with disregard to anyone but themselves. i suppose i made this thread so we could discuss music, and music in videos, and what YOU do when you're making a video with regard to music, or what you think about when you're watching a video, or even tell me what you think of my music or other people' music! anything is open, i just want to go with it, and maybe we can see better music in diabolo videos, yeah?

Dracodragon

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Music in videos
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2006, 07:20:05 PM »
I think its just a problem with people being too picky. As for my video, i picked out songs that seemed to fit the theme for where I was at and what was going on. You also said this earlier that music should be chosen that fits, and it seriously should to make a good video. Places where there are big changes in the music should also be places where the scenes should also change.

As for those who dont like music, they can just turn off their speakers or lower the volume and see if the video is any better that way...

ps: i actually even find the music assisting the video to be more inspiring in some cases!
Go Draco with your Diabolo!
http://frogfighters.com/godraco/

martijn

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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2006, 07:23:28 PM »
Exactly. Read that very well you guys, Matt has a good point =D>

Arjan

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Music in videos
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2006, 08:55:52 PM »
When do you know the music of your choise for your video is the best option? Well, like this: When you don`t even hear it. And I don`t mean really not hear it, but when its not overwelming he video.. I can`t really explain myself here. But music should be a background guideline, not anything on the foreground, when it`s not your intention. Intentionally you can put music on the foreground, but then video must be pushed back a little... Balance...

Matt_

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Music in videos
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2006, 09:00:43 PM »
yeah, i see what you mean. a good trick is feel...i like to sit back and "feel" the music and see if it syncs.

not to be self-promoting or anything but i really love music to movie syncs, such as this clip that i put together (the whole movie is cool too, ive watched it).

mood, people, the mood! ;)

frank0072

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Music in videos
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2006, 09:49:00 PM »
I agree with everyone above too. My personal music taste is metal, mostly the more underground sort, but that is the last style that I would put under a juggling video.
Music has to play with your senses, make something move inside you, and if you want someone to relax you put on music with a slow beat and relaxing melody's. If you want someone to be exited and tense you put on fast chaotic music. It's all about what you want to achieve with your video.
We have seen Draco and Martijn do it lately. The music in the trailer for the NK2006DVD is awsome, it gives you really high expectations of something great about to happen, and that is exactly what it is meant to do. Draco's video was more 'laid-back'  (I hope I use the right term), and the music supports that.

So, I hope it is clear that all I wanted to achieve with this post is support the ones who posted before me. I hope it is clear eventhough English isn't my native tongue.
some people think they are better because they can do something better

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tommi

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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 10:37:07 PM »
Ok, I'm sure people get the point, but..
I was filming myself diaboloing tonight just for fun. But when I saw this thread I decided to have some more fun with one clip.

Just to prove that how much the different music affects the mood in the video.

I'm not saying that the other is good and the other is bad, just the difference :P

..And oh yes, this one is only 'bout the music. The vid is pretty much crap in its quality, scenery and editing. (Because I was only filming it for myself and only have windows media player and a digital camera)

Jesse

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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2006, 11:21:58 PM »
Yeah that video pretty much sums it up.

Matt_

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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2006, 12:51:45 AM »
it wont even download. megaupload sucks. if you're going to just post a video that you want people to check out real fast, use googlevideo or youtube, the videos are available to watch almost instantly.

GbH

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Music in videos
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2006, 12:58:24 AM »
Thanks for starting this thread, Matt.  The importance of music, be it for videos, shows or competition 'freestyles', can never, in my opionion, be overstated.  Whether it's diabolo, juggling, yo-yo or whatever else, the routines that I've rated most have always been accompanied by well chosen music.  

Whenever I've put my own routines together, or helped out others, it's always the music that gets sorted out first.  Everything else then has to fit with the music - if it doesn't, it gets left out.  This might seem strange to some people, but if you want everything to fit together and (hopefully) become something more than the sum of the parts, then you really do have to be driven by the least adaptable element (i.e. the music).

It's interesting to see the Draco video used as an example.  Chris clearly has a good instinct for this stuff, but still (in my opinion) manages to miss the jackpot.  The problem here was obvious - the choice of tracks.  The Eminem track, in particular, is a really good example of what does and doesn't work.  The song starts really strongly, building a sense of expectation and atmosphere.  Even on first hearing, you understand the feeling it's trying to generate.  Chris obviously noticed this and uses it to good effect.  However, once the song gets into its stride, all of a sudden, nothing happens.  It just reaches a level and stays there.  Although the verse and chorus are clearly distinctive, the feel of the track stays pretty much the same.  Thus, there's nothing much else for Chris to lock onto - no rise and fall or change of direction - so the music and the action become separated, the 'magic' is lost and the video just becomes 'average'.

Also, I'd question whether the look of the video really reflects the mood of the music.  Do the trees really look hip-hop?  Do Chris's clothes, mannerisms or facial expressions reflect the lyrics?  I, for one, didn't think so.  Oh, and before you question it, I actually own a couple of Eminem albums and rate some of his stuff very highly - personal taste doesn't come into this.

The transition between the two tracks was handled well - there was an obvious and noticable change in mood, with the second track helping to raise the tempo.  Another thumbs up.  But, after that change, the music seems to settle down into a single level, leaving the diabolo action to become detached again.  Again, the flow of the video is lost, leaving something that could have been really good looking only so-so.


Anyway, I think I'll stop there.  Hopefully I've given you something to think about, even if you don't happen to agree with it.  You can't, after all, please all people all of the time.  

Guy

Dracodragon

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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2006, 01:47:23 AM »
Hey, that was a real helpful post GbH! It does seem like my video stays on the same level after a while, and i never really noticed that the music was doing that until you pointed it out. I do have a few more songs that I am going to use, but those are going to be for performances, and hopefully they fit what you say about the rising climax and stuff.

Perhaps we should all do this for our videos and keep what he said in mind!
Go Draco with your Diabolo!
http://frogfighters.com/godraco/

Matt_

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Music in videos
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2006, 02:31:13 AM »
right, excellent post Guy. great job with analyzing Chris' video.

i tried this with the Hall/Yabe clipvideo, the Gunn video and my technical boxes video, for example--look at the tone of the videos in relation to their music. for the SC Jugglers February video, i used four songs, and i basically tried to make four seperate videos, each with a tone that fit the songs. i picked the music BEFORE i edited the clips and fit the action to the music. actually, i had the Gabby La La song (the first track) picked out before we were even filming! i even tried some sync action in there, to what effect it worked, i'm not sure.

still though, even with all the work i've put into my videos and their music (ask Chris or David, i spent a lot of time talking to them [and myself] about what to use), the reactions i've gotten, for the most part, have been lukewarm. i've had people who HATE the Gabby La La (first track, feb video), and people who love it. same thing for almost all the other songs. you can't please everyone, but you can at least make as much of an effort as possible :P

frank0072

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Music in videos
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2006, 07:39:22 AM »
Guy's point is exactly what it's all about. I have only made one or two video's of one trick, so I don't have that much experience, but I have always tried to 'sync' the music with what is shown.

Another example is the loopdiabolo video with the popcorn song in it. That is, when I think of it now, the best chosen music for a video ever. Everytime I see loop diabolo or do it myself I have that song in my head.
some people think they are better because they can do something better

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(='.'=)
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Spooned

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Music in videos
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2006, 11:05:34 AM »
Tommi raises a good point with his video, but i still believe that music is all a matter of opinion - some people will love a song while other will hate it: its just the way it works, but it doesnt mean that well chosen music cant have a huge impact on a video.

To date i still believe the best example of this to be the diabology trailer which has Freestyler as its opening for the educational part and then a swap to Verdi (i think) for its freestyle part. For me this works very well as the expectation grows suddenly as the text and music changes, but for people who dont like classical music would this really have the same impact or would they be thinking "The diaboloing is good but the music is terrible", who knows.

On the other hand take the video from a while back called Hip-Hop. Personally i thought the music dectracted from the diaboloing (which was quite good) but its just my opinion. Also while the music stayed at the same level, the quality and consistency of tricks rose and fell. Finially on this point its did have some good music - movie syncs but not really enough.

Sorry to rave on, just my 2 pence

(Possibly) Useful links:

Thread about Diabolo to Music

Good Diabolo Music Thread
Diabolo or Diablo

diplodicai

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Music in videos
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2006, 12:25:43 PM »
I have not made any videos yet, as my standard is not high enough to really carry it. I have, however, made videos of my mates and I mucking about at an outdoor site. Abseiling, canoeing, fire stuff etc. What we found was that music can be like punctuation. It can be like a full stop after the trick (or accident) that makes it work. Music that is building can show that you are just about to be doing something impressive and then pauses as you've done it. The trick sequences become like phrases when correctly fitted to the music and help it to feel like it is flowing smoothly.
Dude, not on the rug.

martijn

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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2006, 03:48:31 PM »
Quote from: Matt_
1. people are just picky. i don't mean to judge here, but some people have really narrow interests in music. in other words, you're only interested in one type of music and you're unwilling to accept anything else. come on people, don't deny it, i know you're out there. i personally know a lot of people like this.

Yeah, I used to be one of those. A few years ago my favourite music was rock and metal, and I couldn't stand hiphop, dance/trance, etc. Now, I appreciate almost every type of music, while others still only like one specific genre and dislike all the others. It's impossible to have everyone like your music because it's such a personal thing. Like you said, you can't please everyone.

I liked the first track in your video a lot Tommi, that really suited your style and the mood of the video, while the 2nd track is also a nice song, it just doesn't work for the video. When watching the 2nd part of your video, it felt like the audio and the video were 2 seperate things, while the first track fitted the video perfectly.

Quote from: Matt_
the reactions i've gotten, for the most part, have been lukewarm.

Yeah, I know how you feel. I posted the Circusplanet 2005 video (which is, imo, one of the better edited jugglingvideos around) on R.J. and I haven't got a single reply! Not even from people who disliked it, they just ignored the whole video. That kinda pissed me off. On the other hand, I got loads of replies from diabolo.ca and the Dutch forums, so now I know where the cool jugglers online are :P

And Matt, just for your information, I LOVE all the videos you've made so far. They're all in my "Best jugglingvideos" folder on my hard disk, where other videos like Feel Good Inc, Buskonature, Smile, Almost no pirouettes, Ori's videos and much more are in... Your work is being appreciated! I hope to see more soon :)

tommi

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« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2006, 06:49:43 PM »
Quote from: Martijn
I liked the first track in your video a lot Tommi, that really suited your style and the mood of the video, while the 2nd track is also a nice song, it just doesn't work for the video. When watching the 2nd part of your video, it felt like the audio and the video were 2 seperate things, while the first track fitted the video perfectly.


Yeah. Thats pretty much what I tried to say. Though that's not exactly what I wrote in my post.

I'm Still afraid that we'll never see a diabolo-video with music that everyone likes. :)  :?

Matt_

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Music in videos
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2006, 09:26:16 PM »
Quote from: Spooned
On the other hand take the video from a while back called Hip-Hop. Personally i thought the music dectracted from the diaboloing (which was quite good) but its just my opinion. Also while the music stayed at the same level, the quality and consistency of tricks rose and fell. Finially on this point its did have some good music - movie syncs but not really enough.


you mean MY crappy video called hip hop? the one to dead prez with me and boxthor? man that video SUCKS, i haven't even put that one on youtube or anything, i'm kind of ashamed of it. that one is definitely an example of an interchangeable soundtrack...i only put one sync in that vid (a one second slowdown), you could tell we made that one real fast ;)

Tijn: thanks! i like your videos a lot too, i really appreciate the effort that you (and anyone) put into video quality, music, the content, and just presentation. it REALLY makes a difference.

by the way, about rec.juggling..i dunno, ignore them. diabolo does not go well over there. to get comments, you've got to be Gatto, or just make a convention video (no matter how crappy, people will still love it). i've barely gotten any comments on any video i've posted. i just post for the video crawler, that's about it. i mean come on, Chris' new video got ONE comment. ONE!

martijn

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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2006, 11:34:31 PM »
Quote from: Matt_
by the way, about rec.juggling..i dunno, ignore them. diabolo does not go well over there.

There was also devilsticking, ballspinning, balls and unicycling in there. Did YOU watch my video Matt? :P Just kidding, I was only pissed at the time. Now I know where the cool people online are 8)

Matt_

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Music in videos
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2006, 08:43:43 AM »
maybe it's just that people see diabolo and its like NO!!! I HATE IT I DONT EVEN WANT TO WATCH THE REST!!!! you should've made the same video, sans diabolo, and thennn seen the comments that it would've gotten :P

 

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