Author Topic: Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds  (Read 13464 times)

nezzybaby

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Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2006, 07:36:33 AM »
Quote from: tomangleberger
Why do I do a "hack" juggling show with tricks that appeal to non-jugglers instead of jugglers?

Because non-jugglers are the ones paying for the show!

Have I ever told you how getting a steady juggling gig let me quit my job at the lawn mower parts factory?
I'll take silly juggling over working the injection molder any day.

Obviously in my own back yard I have higher ambitions ...

EDIT: thinking it over, I have to say it's much more than the money. Some of my happiest moments have been from making kids happy, as cliched as that might sound.
Juggling makes a great sport, but what Garfield doesn't get is that it can also entertain and some of us like doing that part, too -- AND WE'RE TIRED OF BEING CALLED HACKS!



Totally agree, the smile on a small childs face when the diabolo climbs up the string really makes it worth while. I rarely do performances, but if people come up to me in the park or wherever, i like to dumb it down a little. You could have an amazing run of three diabolos which you ultimately drop, or you could make the diabolo climb the string and catch it every time, people will like the trick that isnt dropped more. The basic FACT is that more people don't have a clue what a diabolo is than those that can understand a complicated mini genocide routine. Why would you cater for people that aren't even in your audience.

Save the pro routines for festivals and forum videos. If you're gonna perform remember people will be impressed with anything so long as you dont drop.

Magnus

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Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2006, 11:05:32 PM »
When performing the important thing is not usually what you do but how you do it. I for example can do some pretty cool mini g. variations, and soon 2d basics. Much harder than the guy on the street with elevators and high throws. Still, I'm terrible at performing, so the guy on the street would probarbly get much more attention than me if both were performing in the same area :?

However I only diabolo becouse I think it's fun :)I really don't care if other people think high trows are more impressing. I diabolo to impress and please myself not anyone else :)

GbH

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Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2006, 11:52:37 PM »
I think I've probably said this here before, but if you're performing diabolo and want to be appreciated, you've got to do tricks that people understand (or, failing that, tricks that people THINK they understand, even if they actually don't).  So, if someone can obviously see when a trick has started, see what's supposed to happen, see how it might go wrong and, finally, see that you've succeeded, then you're probably on to a good thing.  If you've got performance skills that emphasise these things and can add humour and personality too, then so much the better.

The 'high throw' is a good example of such a trick - but so's the 3 shuffle.  Actual difficulty has little to do with it, since many people won't have a clue about such things and couldn't care less (in fact, on windy days, it's debatable which trick is really the harder...).  Anyone who thinks audiences can/should be 'educated' about trick difficulty clearly needs to put their theory test and see what happens :twisted: .  All that you'll be achieving, by taking such an approach, is telling them 'I'm better than you' or 'I wasted loads of time playing with toys, so like me'.  Strangely enough, audiences don't tend to respond positively to such messages.

Guy

Matt_

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Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2006, 04:22:51 AM »
Quote from: Chiok
Perhaps jugglers should try to understand non-jugglers for a change?


yeah, that's a little more fair. we keep expecting them to look at it our way without doing anything in return.. ("we" used with gross generalization).

i think that as long as you entertain, you're doing fine. what's the point of this thread? anger at the fact that you can do hard tricks but are less popular than someone who has no skill? hey, it happens.

there is a difference between entertainment and good juggling. sometimes, it overlaps. a lot of times, it doesn't.

you can't have everything. Josh, take it easy my man. it probably burns you up that kids doing whip catches are getting more attention than your 3D that you've put hours into, but i think it needs to be put to a rest. you're missing the point. did you get into juggling to be popular? if so, you need to seriously rethink your trick learning strategy, because you're learning all the wrong ones :P


Quote from: J_J777
That's why I say I don't begrude you to have an elevator or high toss in your routine but I think it should be coupled with tricks that are techinically harder which are performed in a way which is appealing to the crowd.


this quote is just funny. you're basically saying that you should cater to the audience---but only with hard tricks. i say, as long as they like it, go for it. when i perform (which is to say, when my mom makes me put on a show at parties and gathers her friends around), i make sure to put plenty of talking bits, interact with the crowd, and not do stuff that's too hard (so i don't stand there trying the same trick over and over). i can string together a lot of 2D moves, but when i'm doing those, i usually just put it only one or two tricks together, stop, shuffle, look at them, and then do a couple more. they're impressed by that, and if you just do it really really fast (huge combo), they get confused.

speaking of confused...you are really confusing entertainment to non jugglers with entertainment to jugglers (or to oneself). i would like to ask you, have you ever performed for anyone? and i don't think that showing off at school during lunch counts (a talent show does though).

J_J777

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Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2006, 05:09:54 AM »
Matt I actually have many times.  I've performed for my middle school, one of the elementary schools in my town, at a talent show in my high school (the only diabolo related performances)  However mainly I've performed with my friend, mithew, who has performed for the celtics pregame show, on television (fox 25) i did something else for that, and much more.  So i know what it's like to perform.  

Also I don't do diabolo because I wish to be popular but I started to have fun and I wish others to understand that a diaboloist isn't a freak of nature...  That's why I wish to show that diabolo can have possiblities, and isn't just limited to high throws and elevators and whip catches.

Tricks that are entertaining to jugglers can be entertaining to non jugglers too.  Look at Tony frebourgh for example.  He has some very nice tricks that he performs in a way that is entertaining for the crowd.

Guy, when hanging out during free block doing diabolo, there was actually one person that actually got quite interested and I was able to teach him some basic tricks like suicide, half spagetti etc...  So yeah they can be taught.

Sharpes, that is a good point.  I guess the non juggling world likes a good performer doing diabolo rather than a good diaboloist doing diabolo.  Maybe we could find some common ground and learn to perform and the good performer some more diabolo tricks.

Chiok I enjoy a good clown act also but that's very much just being a good performer, refer to what i said to the Sharpes.  Also I think what your saying about "eating their own handsticks first" has a point but if they improved and changed their act as they got better than  it would be even better.

Tomangleberger, you have my respect as a person who does diabolo for a living.  It must be hard to make enough but in your performances you could do some harder tricks in your performances that could equally make those children happy.  It's just I think those kids would enjoy to learn diabolo and become the next antonin (just a random good diaboloist i thought of) if they saw more possiblities.  Also maybe I should change the title of hack diaboloists to jugglers vs non jugglers crowds.  Anyone know how I can do that?

I think I answered almost everyone.

Josh

tomangleberger

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Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2006, 01:38:13 AM »
Here's a video with a snippet from a show I did at a July 4 festival. Basically, all you're seeing here is me, the Chicken Guy, doing a high-throw and then letting the kids try it.  As you can see they go wild for it.
(Sorry for the Blair Witch camera work. Camera guy was nuts.)

Don't Underestimate the High Throw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNm3dcK5mGs

Quote from: J_J777
Tomangleberger, you have my respect as a person who does diabolo for a living.


I don't want to mislead you, I'm not a real full-time pro. I've always had other jobs going....
That said, the money you can make off of birthday parties, tablehopping and strolling is mighty fine. Add in the occasional stage show and you've got a nice source of income.

By the way, I have begun adding some harder tricks to my act since getting serious about diabolo. However, it's largely meant more drops. (Rocketstarts and card tricks kill me in front of crowds.) I may have been a better entertainer when I was a lesser juggler.

Matt_

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Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2006, 09:06:46 AM »
Quote from: tomangleberger
I may have been a better entertainer when I was a lesser juggler.


at least you're trying :P

well, i guess cater to the audience. last time i had a show for my mom's friends, they wanted to know the names of the tricks. i was really blown away, i didn't know what to say...i was like "uhh, this is 531...this is 441..." and that was kind of awkward.

mrpink

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Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2006, 04:41:44 PM »
I think there are two compleatly differnt aproches to Juggling/diabolo. Eiter you do it because you want to use it as a tool in your performing routine or you do it because you want to chalenge yourself and learn new things. Neither way is wrong, they are just different.
I started as a juggler and then became a performer because i like being the focus of atention for people. But when I perform i dont really do anny tricks I consider really hard. Its more important to do something that looks good to the audience. I still like to spend hours trying to learn some new freaky thechnical stuff even if i know this trick will never be part of the show.
People dont get entertained just because something is verry hard to do, they dont really care as long as they ar enjoying the show. The weakest part of my show is still the thechical 2d stuff i do, i make the same monney or more if i just cut it out of the show, but for personal reasons i want it to be there so i keep doing it there. There are lots of things that are verry hard to do but not verry amusing to watch , solving patial differential equations for example. And some things thats bloddy easy that is verry funny. You just have to adapt to the circumstances and find a way to make a good show (if thats what you want).  And live with the fact that your actual thecnical skill is less than 20% of what makes the show a sucsess.
For me learning the skill (with diabolos and clubs) was the easy part, its just fun. I really had to struggle and put lots of time and emotional energy to learn the performing skills.
I get really sad when people look down on performers who can make a good show without huge spectacular tricks, in my opinion aciving sucess with small means requires even more of the performer.
just my 2cents...

one.man.band

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Re: Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2006, 10:49:42 AM »
Quote from: tomangleberger
Why do I do a "hack" juggling show with tricks that appeal to non-jugglers instead of jugglers?

Save the pro routines for festivals and forum videos.

This makes so much sense to me.

Only the people who have attempted to learn the trick you are performing, or have seen the length other people have had to go to to learn the trick will know how hard the trick is. If that makes sense  :-\

Financially, if you find the diabolo fun, and interesting and it also puts food on the table, why not have fun for the rest of your life?
Not sure how many times my diabolos have been in the pond

matthewthegreat

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Re: Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2006, 03:08:32 PM »
To get non-jugglers to like the technical stuff all you have to do is do it with fire. ;D

Ethos

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Re: Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2006, 03:57:02 AM »
I usually will practice infront of my school in the morning before classes and people will come up and watch and ask me to do forsed suns/elevators over and over again. if they don't ask for that they ask for me to toss it up thru my legs, run up a wall and catch it while doing a flip (I'll show him up someday) but I just do what they say and show everyone what I can do during talent shows and stuff. (fire will also get anyone intrested with anything)
woot
Ethos

Sharpes

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Re: Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2006, 03:38:53 AM »
Mr. Pink, I was reading your post, and I think that while they are different approaches, it is very possible to mix them. When I perform, I do the hardest tricks I can do solidly, and can get very good response. I think I've said this before, but I think its a very good point that's worth reiterating. If you want someone to understand that a trick is very hard, put it later in your routine than tricks easier than it, and begin with the basics. I have an opening sequence to my diabolo routine that covers every single basic diabolo trick area except grinds (just so happens); and while the audience might not understand it all, they then have a basic visual knowledge of what I have acknowledged by putting first as "easy tricks" Now, when I do complicated stuff, they can somewhat recognize its complexity and difficulty and hopefully beauty, and love it. I get equal applause for my most complicated 1d body combo as I do for the double duicide pirrouette that follows it. 
Jacob and Nate Sharpe

Beni

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Re: Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2006, 05:58:48 PM »
I'm only really a beginner but I know exactly what the problem is. I think the answer is to do it in a certain style or make it look graceful. Doing easy tricks such as elevator, sure they're not hard but they look amazing to an audience and since it's so easy you can intergrate things into it like clowning or just your facial expression. It's a bit like doing magic. An example - At the start of the "of baguettes and diabolos" video, they have the infinite suicides with the phone and the s-fan in bed. Also, doing hard ntricks that you have just learnt and are eager to show them off (:)) is risky because of the higher chance of failure and you will have to concentrate quite a bit. Out of what I've seen JiBe is my favourite stage performer. He makes everything look so easy(!!) and it can appeal to jugglers and non jugglers.

Alternatively, you can do fire diabolo. The tricks are so hard and therefore challenging and impressive.


Sorry for the long post...

DiaboloWebb

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Re: Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2006, 08:57:36 PM »
To get non-jugglers to like the technical stuff all you have to do is do it with fire. ;D

Too dam right! :D i'm hoping to get a couple of fire diabolo's although i have no idea how i'm going to start 2, hand start would be way too hot
ALIENS ARE COMING TO ABDUCT ALL THE GOOD LOOKING AND SEXY PEOPLE.

  YOU WILL BE SAFE; I'M JUST WRITING THIS TO SAY GOODBYE.

-Leo-

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Re: Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2006, 07:35:24 AM »
I've done a rocket start before now.
Behind your back is your front.

seán_

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Re: Diaboloist vs Non Diaboloist Crowds
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2006, 01:08:24 AM »
Zanzibar (French diaboloist living in England) uses a leather glove when doing 2 fire diabolos, he says it is handy when he gets a tangle as well.
If memory serves me right there is a thread about starting 2 fire d so we dont have to drag this thread offtopic.

 

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