Author Topic: Personality disorders?  (Read 9708 times)

Diabolo88

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Personality disorders?
« on: February 18, 2007, 12:25:50 PM »
OK, I didn´t search this one beforehand, but I´m just so sure it´s never been discussed. Anyway:

About two or three years ago I was diagnosed with autism. This came as a surprise for me, as I´ve never really thought of myslef as autistic. Anyway, some clues the doctors got were the fact that I have trouble understanding other peoples feelings (if I´ve ever offended anyone on the forum I´m sorry BTW) and most importantly I had a special interest (jugglling) and that I love it very much.

I usually feel way, way "happier" at conventions than I am normally (like I´m on drugs or something ;D). I´ve read that usually, when people with autism or highly functioning autism talk to "normal" people, they do not understand eachother, but when they get to discuss something they like with people who think similiar, they feel better.

So, I´m wondering if any of you people here on the forum has ever been diagnosed with something like this or any other disorders. I heard a guy describing juggling as an OCD once which I found quite funny, but also partly true. It does take something to practice this much with something so obscure.

The main reason I´m wondering about this is because I´ve talked to Markus Furtner a couple of times (worlds craziest Devilsticker if you don´t know him) and he´s also superexcited every time he talks about devilstick. Last time I talked to him, I asked about one (1) trick and it turned into a half hour discussion about devilstick. During that whole time, I didn´t understand much about what he was talking about because I´m really not a good devilsticker. Still, he managed to get me interested enough to talk about devilsticks for that long. I recognize this in myself whenever I get to talk about Diabolo. This is why I´m wondering, do you think there´s a large percentage of jugglers with personalitydisorders?

-Leo-

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2007, 12:38:33 PM »
I think that diaboloers share the same interests, but I'm not sure that this means that there are a high percentage of people with personality disorders within the diabolo community. Many people have a hobby or a past time which they take a special interest in. It could be fishing, basketball, mountain biking (my interests:)) or anything. The whole personality disorder idea doesn't seem very likely to me but I think that everyone in this community shares the interest in what is essentially spinning an egg timer on a piece of string.

-Leo
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Diabolo88

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2007, 01:53:26 PM »
Yes, I understand that you could be perfectly normal and just love Diabolo. However, I wondered if there were some signs that might fit in usually (desire of recognition etc.).

I don´t think there´s a high percentage of people with PD in the Diaboloworld (most people are probably perfectly normal), but maybe there´s a higher percentage than in lets say, basketball or fishing.

I´m wondering because even though I´ve gotten a diagnos I don´t really see myslef as different. My family and friends however think I´m strange for doing Diabolo a lot.

Matt?

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2007, 05:39:15 PM »
Im not sure if this is relevant but i think it is...

Whenever i get a new hobby, i get fairly obsessed over that hobby for a certain amount of time, iv done things such as skateboarding, Mountai biking, BMXing, Lots of musical things and a lot of them, if im not encouraged more, seem to sort of fade over time...

But at the moment im fairly obsessed over diabolo and do it way too much. Is this the sort of thing you are talkign about? or am i barking up the wrong tree :D
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-Leo-

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2007, 05:46:59 PM »
Sorry I think my post might have confused you a little bit. Diabolo88 was talking about personality disorders and there relationship with juggling/diaboloing.
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Matt?

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2007, 06:12:10 PM »
Yes i know, but im saying, it might not be anything to do with that, and just how people are with hobbies in general. sorry if i didn't get that across guppy :D
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Matt_

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2007, 06:47:30 PM »
I'm sorry that I have nothing to add to this thread, but I would like to point out that this is a perfect "Off Topic" thread, too bad none of you can see that area :( All of the lame annoying threads ruined that area for well written, interesting threads such as this.

Pete

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2007, 08:19:47 PM »
I dont have a personality disorder but for a while i thought i had an OCD. At the peak of my practicing i was doing more than 5 hours a day. I went to a convention for the first time, i did a 10 hour stretch only stopping for lunch for about 15 minutes, drink breaks, and loo breaks. I felt withdrawal symptoms. I actually felt cravings for diabolo, i had to do it every day. My friends said i was weird, a few people were even convinced that i didn't sleep, i just did diabolo. But then i realised that it was just normal obsessiveness for doing something that i really love to do. Its normal, its alright to do it all the time, and miss it when your not doing it. I'm totally over it now, i can cope without it for a while, but i do have a very excessive personality as it is, so if i do anything i do it alot.

Incidentally, my dad teaches autistic children.

Great thread idea btw.
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Alex!

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2007, 09:51:48 PM »
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i did a 10 hour stretch

I would do a full 24 hour if I could! ::)
I am quite similar as I do allot of diabolo each day, around 3 hours, and like to talk to people about it.
To be honest though I normally get passionate about new hobbies or activities, and I practice allot because I have to compete and keep up my standards with my friends.
And also don't forget the fact that diabolo is soo fun! :D
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Tom Derrick

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2007, 12:40:31 AM »

I think that diaboloers share the same interests, but I'm not sure that this means that there are a high percentage of people with personality disorders within the diabolo community. Many people have a hobby or a past time which they take a special interest in. It could be fishing, basketball, mountain biking (my interests:)) or anything. The whole personality disorder idea doesn't seem very likely to me but I think that everyone in this community shares the interest in what is essentially spinning an egg timer on a piece of string.


I think that diabolo/juggling lends itself to people with personality disorders and some kinds of mental disability more than others might do. Anyone that has a disorder that has addictive traits can just pick up some props, and they're doing their favourite activity. If the same person had a thing about kayaking, it's slightly harder to satisfy the demand. It can also be a place of escape, or something to lose yourself in when things are getting difficult in some way. Some disorders, like in parts of the autism spectrum, someone can be totally occupied with patterns of various kinds, so watching and being able to create them is appealing.

Diabolo88

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2007, 05:17:07 AM »
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I think that diabolo/juggling lends itself to people with personality disorders and some kinds of mental disability more than others might do. Anyone that has a disorder that has addictive traits can just pick up some props, and they're doing their favourite activity. If the same person had a thing about kayaking, it's slightly harder to satisfy the demand. It can also be a place of escape, or something to lose yourself in when things are getting difficult in some way. Some disorders, like in parts of the autism spectrum, someone can be totally occupied with patterns of various kinds, so watching and being able to create them is appealing.

^This is excactly what I meant. I can lose myself totally and on weekends or schoolholidays I can practice up to twelve hours straight. I usually don´t talk to people. Whenever I do there are "misunderstandings". However, I feel much more at ease talking to jugglers which is why I like this forum so much ;D.

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It can also be a place of escape, or something to lose yourself in when things are getting difficult in some way.


Again very true. I can practice for hours and it feels like minutes. I´m not saying this is good to do if you want to get good at Diabolo, but whatever problems I feel I´m having just kind of disappears.
Also, the repetitivness (I have no idea how to spell that) feels really good. It´s the same pattern over and over. Learn a new trick, practice it, move on to next. Also, it´s kind of childish but whenever I watch juggling I think of it as fireworks, so the patternidea might also fit in.

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Incidentally, my dad teaches autistic children.

^Maybe you should tip him off on Diabolo then ;).

There´s also problems when I don´t get to juggle. I feel very stressed. A few years ago I practiced way less than now and I suffered from insomnia. Now, after I´ve practiced I feel really good and then I can also sleep very well, but if there´s no possibility to practice one day I can actually feel physically ill. In a way, juggling removes a lot of problems for me, but it also creates an addiction which is seen by my surroundings as unhealthy.

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I'm sorry that I have nothing to add to this thread, but I would like to point out that this is a perfect "Off Topic" thread, too bad none of you can see that area  All of the lame annoying threads ruined that area for well written, interesting threads such as this.


Thank you. I would have placed it there if I could. Still, I don´t want this to be moved because I can´t see the "Off Topic" forum.

harm

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2007, 10:07:13 AM »
I completely agree with Tom Derrick on this topic. Some activities 'attract' persons with personality trait 'x'. For example, you won't find too many bungee jumpers scoring high on introversion. As Tom already pointed out, juggling can be considered such an activity, therefore it’s quite probable that high scores on some personality traits are more common among jugglers then they are in the general population. The same goes for personality disorders. Since a population of jugglers differs from the general population, the commonness of certain personality disorders will also differ.

Interestingly I’ve found teaching people with ADHD (Attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder) and people with short attention spans in general how to juggle works very well. I think this has to do with the high effort/reward ratio of juggling. By accomplishing all these small goals it is not very hard to keep yourself motivated.

Harm

GbH

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2007, 07:11:43 PM »
Yes, certainly an interesting subject.

I figured out that I was 'on the spectrum' about 4 years ago and got an official AS diagnosis soon afterwards.  Whilst I'd vaguely suspected something along these lines before that, I finally figured it out when reading a related newspaper article.

I've also wondered about how many other jugglers are in the same position.  I can certainly think of a few possible candidates, but without approaching someone and saying "Are you autistic?" it's hard to really know.  Even if they are affected, it's quite possible that they haven't been diagnosed.  A great many adults certainly haven't been, simply because it wasn't so well understood when they were of school age.  

Diabolo88 is not quite right in saying that it's never been discussed, but it's fair to say that it's not mentioned very often.  When looking through my old copies of Kaskade, I found, to my surprise, an article titled "The Autistic Juggler?" (May 1988 issue).  Whist the actual text of the article doesn't actually talk about specifically autistic jugglers, it's still interesting that the connection was made.  Very recently, meanwhile, I noticed someone mention AS in passing on one of the yo-yo forums, suggesting (in the context of what was written) that being an aspie was a potentially beneficial trait.  

So, no, it's not something that's been completely ignored in the wider juggling community.  But I guess the stigma associated with the word 'autism' has made people less comfortable about discussing it, even though a surprising number of history's high achievers have been suspected as being in the same situation themselves.

Guy

 




Tom Derrick

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2007, 12:02:29 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if I had some degree of autism or AS, but I see no need for me to get a diagnosis apart from to put a name against some slightly eccentric behaviour.
Is autism/AS classed as a disability? I was filling in a job application form a couple of days ago, and one of the questions was along the lines of "do you have any disabilities?" It would be interesting to know if you had to 'declare' it, as such.

Oh, and Harm: I'm an introverted bungee jumper ;)

Relativity

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2007, 10:36:01 PM »
I think this is kind of along the same lines, but i have Bipolar disorder, and when i got into diabolo, it was a total release for me. I find it almost like meditation when i'm playing with my diabolo, and get so sucked in, that all of my worries and problems become absorbed, like the flame void sort of thing. When i'm hyper i find myself taking my diabolo everywhere, and doing it in unappropriate places such as downtown Vancouver ( I wasn't busking, honest) and the London underground almost to 'show off'. When i'm down, i tend to do it hours on my own almost obsessively, and the fun seems to dissappear, Anyone get anything similar?
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Diabolo88

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2007, 11:23:17 PM »
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Diabolo88 is not quite right in saying that it's never been discussed, but it's fair to say that it's not mentioned very often.  When looking through my old copies of Kaskade, I found, to my surprise, an article titled "The Autistic Juggler?" (May 1988 issue).  Whist the actual text of the article doesn't actually talk about specifically autistic jugglers, it's still interesting that the connection was made.  Very recently, meanwhile, I noticed someone mention AS in passing on one of the yo-yo forums, suggesting (in the context of what was written) that being an aspie was a potentially beneficial trait.  
What is that forum (I´d love to look at it)? Didn´t mean it´s never been discussed only, I´ve never discussed it. Normally I would never discuss my own condition with other people at all, but I know everyone on the forum are good people (Diabolists after all)so it´s OK.

^^This also makes me wonder. Is it a good or bad thing to have problems like these and juggle.
Like Relativity describes:
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When i'm down, i tend to do it hours on my own almost obsessively, and the fun seems to dissappear, Anyone get anything similar?

I know my situation is similiar. Today, I couldn´t practice because of a snowstorm so now, I cannot sleep. When you get to practice too much, your muscles get tired and it might not be benificial (maybe not for the mind either) but atleast you "feel" at ease. When practice works good or I learn a new trick, I tend to get on a high and become extremely happy. Today, reversed, I hardly got to practice and now I feel depressed. This is why I´m questioning wether it´s good or bad to take it all this seriously (deep down I know it´s bad and it´s better to just have fun but I cannot help to exagerrate it). It all goes around in spirals. Would it be better to be "casual" about it, or is it a better prerequisite to get obsessed easily?

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Is autism/AS classed as a disability? I was filling in a job application form a couple of days ago, and one of the questions was along the lines of "do you have any disabilities?" It would be interesting to know if you had to 'declare' it, as such.


Um, assuming you´re joking. The state aren´t allowing me to start practicing driving because they think I´m a homicidal maniac with bad motorskills (actually got a note that said something along those lines). It all depends on how strong your condition is. It´s when it starts interfering with your life that it becomes a nuisance to yourself and others (so maybe then you´d be forced to declare it). If you want to mention your "disabilities" in your CV or whatever don´t blame me though ;). There´s really nothing good to come from getting diagnosed.

Tom Derrick

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2007, 12:45:16 AM »
Quote from: "Diabolo88"

Quote from: "Tom Derrick"

Is autism/AS classed as a disability? I was filling in a job application form a couple of days ago, and one of the questions was along the lines of "do you have any disabilities?" It would be interesting to know if you had to 'declare' it, as such.


Um, assuming you´re joking. The state aren´t allowing me to start practicing driving because they think I´m a homicidal maniac with bad motorskills (actually got a note that said something along those lines). It all depends on how strong your condition is. It´s when it starts interfering with your life that it becomes a nuisance to yourself and others (so maybe then you´d be forced to declare it). If you want to mention your "disabilities" in your CV or whatever don´t blame me though Wink. There´s really nothing good to come from getting diagnosed.


Actually, I wasn't joking, I genuinely didn't know what's affected. It's rubbish that you're not allowed to drive (might have to move abroad:P).

GbH

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2007, 01:44:36 AM »

This also makes me wonder. Is it a good or bad thing to have problems like these and juggle.


Although our conditions might share the same title, we're still individuals with a unique set of symptoms and talents.  Thus, I think the only person that can properly answer this, in your specific case, is yourself.  However, having said that, juggling embraces and encourages individualism, quirkiness and obsessive practice - character traits that autists are likely to excel at over NTs.  As such, if you've got these abilities, you may as well make the most them in a receptive environment.  On the other hand, if you go into the performing side of things, communication and marketing stuff is likely to be much more of a problem.  You win some, you lose some...



 
Like Relativity describes:
I know my situation is similiar. Today, I couldn´t practice because of a snowstorm so now, I cannot sleep. When you get to practice too much, your muscles get tired and it might not be benificial (maybe not for the mind either) but atleast you "feel" at ease. When practice works good or I learn a new trick, I tend to get on a high and become extremely happy. Today, reversed, I hardly got to practice and now I feel depressed. This is why I´m questioning wether it´s good or bad to take it all this seriously (deep down I know it´s bad and it´s better to just have fun but I cannot help to exagerrate it). It all goes around in spirals. Would it be better to be "casual" about it, or is it a better prerequisite to get obsessed easily?  


Could you actually be "casual" about it, even if you wanted to?  It's hard to give a general opinion on this, but if there's a chance of turning an obsession into something productive, it's probably best to go with it and reap the results.  Again, though, you really do need to consider your own situation.



Um, assuming you´re joking. The state aren´t allowing me to start practicing driving because they think I´m a homicidal maniac with bad motorskills (actually got a note that said something along those lines). It all depends on how strong your condition is. It´s when it starts interfering with your life that it becomes a nuisance to yourself and others (so maybe then you´d be forced to declare it). If you want to mention your "disabilities" in your CV or whatever don´t blame me though ;). There´s really nothing good to come from getting diagnosed.


Given my own experiences, I'd completely disagree with you on the final point.  From the day I first read about AS, I knew that I wasn't going to feel settled until I'd had a professional diagnosis.  Even though the diagnosis process itself was a bit drawn out and frustrating, once it was sorted out, I felt a big weight lifted from my mind.

As for when you should or shouldn't admit to having a 'disability' - I really don't know.  I actually had to make a similar choice myself last week.  I suppose the only thing to do is to treat each case on its own merits.  Even for something like CVs, the decision isn't entirely clear.  There are certainly some professions (programming, research, engineering...) where autistic traits are valued and prized, so in some cases, it might be considered a positive attribute to mention from the start.  

Guy

Jester

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2007, 04:18:49 AM »
I haven't been diagnosed myself but reading through newspapers and net article leads me to suspect that i am at least mildly autistic

my opinion is that regarding a mental attribute as a "disability" is a very western trait sort of a OMG your not normal you must be defective

its better to think of life as a tapestry and we are the glittery bits

remember it takes all kinds  :D

peace and love
to my fellow diaboloist
do it, do it ,do it, DO IT!

Diabolo88

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Re: Personality disorders?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2007, 04:30:04 PM »
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Although our conditions might share the same title, we're still individuals with a unique set of symptoms and talents.  Thus, I think the only person that can properly answer this, in your specific case, is yourself.  However, having said that, juggling embraces and encourages individualism, quirkiness and obsessive practice - character traits that autists are likely to excel at over NTs.  As such, if you've got these abilities, you may as well make the most them in a receptive environment.  On the other hand, if you go into the performing side of things, communication and marketing stuff is likely to be much more of a problem.  You win some, you lose some...


That´s a good way to see it. Positive thinking, I like that ;D I´m trying to reevaluate my thinking of Diabolo right now. I want to make it more fun again (it´s usually the most fun in different periods).

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Could you actually be "casual" about it, even if you wanted to?  It's hard to give a general opinion on this, but if there's a chance of turning an obsession into something productive, it's probably best to go with it and reap the results.  Again, though, you really do need to consider your own situation.


No, I cannot be casual about it. However, when you practice too much and repeat suff, you might get hurt or get bad at inventing new stuff. That´s why, at times, I wish I could force myself to be casual about it. Still, I get more motivated when I feel inadequate. That usually makes me push myself harder to get better. Maybe someone can recognize this?

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Given my own experiences, I'd completely disagree with you on the final point.  From the day I first read about AS, I knew that I wasn't going to feel settled until I'd had a professional diagnosis.  Even though the diagnosis process itself was a bit drawn out and frustrating, once it was sorted out, I felt a big weight lifted from my mind.

As for when you should or shouldn't admit to having a 'disability' - I really don't know.  I actually had to make a similar choice myself last week.  I suppose the only thing to do is to treat each case on its own merits.  Even for something like CVs, the decision isn't entirely clear.  There are certainly some professions (programming, research, engineering...) where autistic traits are valued and prized, so in some cases, it might be considered a positive attribute to mention from the start.  


I guess we´re just different on that point then, although I´ve gotten a diagnosis and can (sort of) use it to excuse the fact that I act weird at times, people around me seem to get freaked out by the fact that I have a "problem" that I don´t even see as a problem myself. If I hadn´t gotten my diagnosis, I´d be happily unaware of all of these things. A diagnosis can´t really change a person, but it may just make life easier/harder on them due to outside influences or emotions.

Still, you might be in a different position. I know you´re a bit older than me so maybe you have a bit more freedom in your life. I guess if that´s the case, getting diagnosed can be a relief. Maybe I´ll feel that way too someday, but at the moment I just don´t :(

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ctually, I wasn't joking, I genuinely didn't know what's affected. It's rubbish that you're not allowed to drive (might have to move abroad:P).


I´m really sorry. I honestly thought you were joking and didn´t mean to make light of it.
Like Guy says, it probably all depends on the job. People with AS usually have good memory and strong attention to detail so if those are some of your traits too, that might be a good thing to mention in a CV. Being in school still, I don´t have a clue about what you should actually do to get the job :-[.

 

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