Author Topic: Where is the line between stealing and copying  (Read 2950 times)

Diabolo88

  • Donator
  • Thanks: 30
Where is the line between stealing and copying
« on: July 16, 2007, 07:08:27 AM »
The title kind of says it all. Where do you think the line between "stealing" and copying is?

Personally, I don´t know. Ever since 2005 I´ve practiced hard to learn Yabes whip-duicide stuff. I´ve got it down so recently I´ve been learning William´s tricks (vertical stickgrind, legcombos etc).
Being alone practicing it´s hard to learn from other places than the internet.

At the last EJC I got convinced (read "bullied into" ;)) by the Israeli crew to make a performance in the near future. However, if I use many of the tricks I have learned from videos they are instantly recognizable as either Yabes, Williams or the MFP´s tricks. So, where is the line between smoothly stealing stuff, and just copying it? Maybe people here have different ideas on this?

GbH

  • Thanks: 14
Re: Where is the line between stealing and copying
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2007, 09:06:17 AM »
The answer to this is the same as with all other juggling and skill related activities and has been answered elsewhere many times before.  In brief, all individual technical tricks are in the public domain - it is quite OK to replicate any trick you've seen done elsewhere.  After all, even if someone believes they've created something new, how can they possibly ever know for sure?  And even if it actually is 'new', it's probably going to be based on many other people's previous discoveries, anyway.

What is absolutely not OK, though, is to steal someone's performance.  That is, to steal, en mass, trick sequences, music, costume, style, movement, persona and any other components that might make up the finished routine.  Whilst it's not always easy to define, in writing, where the limit between acceptable and not acceptable lies, you can guarantee that a knowledgable audience will spot blatant stealing and let you know forthwith.


martijn

  • Moderator
  • Thanks: 113
Re: Where is the line between stealing and copying
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2007, 10:30:03 AM »
Nice post Guy, thanks for that.

I think everybody knows where to draw the line. You can't define it in words.

Pete

  • VotW Contributor
  • Thanks: 8
Re: Where is the line between stealing and copying
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2007, 10:36:07 AM »
I agree with Guy there. The content of the act, each individual trick in the act doesn't matter a great deal. But to copy an act is stepping over the line. For instance, when i was planning my Byjoty routine, at first i thought the 1d and 2d parts had some similarities with Antonins WJF act, a performance i look up to. I also wanted at first to use the same music, Pirates of the Carribbean. But i decided that, although the routiune wasn't lifted exactly from Antonin's act, it would be a little cheeky to borrow the music as well as some of the tricks, so i changed the music, and thus, changed the act to fit, and ended with something quite different (i hope). There comes a point where you can be lifting too much, and sometimes its hard to spot or avoid.
The tallest trees from acorns grow.

Diabolo88

  • Donator
  • Thanks: 30
Re: Where is the line between stealing and copying
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2007, 07:36:34 PM »
Thank you for all the good replies ;D. I find the line to be a bit blurry, so I´m glad people cleared it up a bit.

How do you feel about taking someones trick and adding to it enough to make it a bigger combo which is new, but still consist of the same basis as the first trick? Would this also constitute as copying?

Quote
costume, style, movement, persona

^This I do not understand. Costume would obviously not be a thing to steal, but style, movement and persona is hard to define as you say. Some tricks lend themselves to specific movement that always looks good with that trick in particular. But, if everyone knows and feels this, is it copying to do that movement? Persona is different for everyone, but it´s kind of hard to vary that much.

What I find difficult personally is that most of my coolest 1D stuff is Yabes, and his stuff is just so easy to recognize. Also, the way he has put the tricks in combos the first time around is the most natural. I could fill up in between with other tricks and own inventions, but those tricks in particular is still what worries me. 

I know these are tricky questions and they don´t really have ONE answer. However, it´s good to learn more about it.


martijn

  • Moderator
  • Thanks: 113
Re: Where is the line between stealing and copying
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2007, 09:03:16 PM »
If you want one answer, I'll give you them.

How do you feel about taking someones trick and adding to it enough to make it a bigger combo which is new, but still consist of the same basis as the first trick? Would this also constitute as copying?

I'd say it depends, but in short: yes it would, try to stay away from changing existing tricks and come up with your own stuff.

Some tricks lend themselves to specific movement that always looks good with that trick in particular. But, if everyone knows and feels this, is it copying to do that movement? Persona is different for everyone, but it´s kind of hard to vary that much.

Again, it depends, but in short: you shouldn't copy that either. Come up with your own unique style.

What I find difficult personally is that most of my coolest 1D stuff is Yabes, and his stuff is just so easy to recognize. Also, the way he has put the tricks in combos the first time around is the most natural. I could fill up in between with other tricks and own inventions, but those tricks in particular is still what worries me.

Yes it is cool, but it's not yours. Don't copy his combinations.

So yes, you can get inspired and learn from (mistakes from) others, but only use it in that way. Don't cross the line.

Diabolo88

  • Donator
  • Thanks: 30
Re: Where is the line between stealing and copying
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2007, 09:08:24 PM »
Again thank you for helping ;D. I will probably try to follow what has been said here to the extent I can.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2021, SimplePortal