Author Topic: Knots  (Read 10127 times)

jw

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Knots
« on: January 30, 2005, 10:16:13 PM »
For some reason, there is no topic about knots.

Well, im not the most amazing diabolo'er there is (note the irony :)).
You see in a lot of vids, that people do, what it seems, two trapezes, but for some reason, they 'freeed' the diabolo and can just continue doing tricks. Well, how do you do those knots? :)
Tthat ain't nice for the fortune cookie I always charge you twice.
Delivery is free but not from me I always want a dolla fifty.

JGherkin

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Knots
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2005, 10:22:16 PM »
Yeh the one your thinkin of with two trapezes is where the diab is caught on the backside of the string first and then the two trapezes are done on the same side as the bak string catch and it can the be released upwards, just play around with that single knot and you'll find loads of variations can be done

seán_

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Knots
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2005, 10:43:41 PM »
http://diabolotricks.com/Knots.htm
http://diabolotricks.com/Crazyknots.htm

Good place to start. A lot of the stuff you see in videos are based on the knots there.

The one you mention sounds like a 'fritz release'

Marc

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2D magic-knot-craddle
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2005, 02:08:52 PM »
can anyone do a 2D magic knot craddle?

Mod edit - fan question deleted

Sean

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Knots
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2005, 02:46:32 PM »
Marc, I merged your question to this thread. To be honest I have no clue what you mean by a 2d knot cradle.

You asked about fans as well. The best thread on the basic fan is here. We try and keep to one topic in a thread. ;)

seán_

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Knots
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2005, 03:29:13 PM »
Marc there are several 2d magic knots or tricks that fall into the magic knot family.

Thes a few in the Vux section of Diabology
The easiest magic knot type thing with 2d is probably based on a stickstall. I think a hookstall double release might be considered magic knot like

viiru

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Knots
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2005, 03:48:22 PM »
here's one of my favourite knots.

Start with japanese whip to inverse trapeze (or just do inverse trapeze), let go of the right handstick and let it go clockwise around the strings 2 times, after that walk around the diabolo, do a right trapeze and release from the outside of the left handstick and catch with a whip.

Other one quite simple and cool is to do inverse trapeze, take both handsticks to your right hand, spin a "sun" three times clockwise and release.

There is a really good article about knots in kumiankka.com but unfortunately that's in finnish. I'll ask the guys if I'll can translate it to you.
It's just a world spinning around your diabolo

viiru

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Knots
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2005, 04:21:55 PM »
"Deadpoints of the knots" (originally written in finnish by Aaro Kontio, all props and copyrights etc etc to him. Badly translated and slightly referated by me)

The basic idea of this text is to explain situations with knots, where the amount and order of different moves isn't relevant.

The inverse trapeze moves the diabolo "under the string", from this point it is possible to do, for example, sun around the handsticks to both ways as many times as you want to, and the knot still opens while the handsticks are removed.
The position of the inverse trapeze (left/right) is not relevant. If you do the normal trapeze to the end, the knot will open from middle. If not, knot will open from outside.
Inverse trapeze also makes it possible to go around the knot with your body, throwing the handstick in vertical level around the string, and missed trapezes (common trapeze, but you intentionally miss the middle string. Results a string wrapped around handstick).
All of these moves can be made as many as one wants to and in every order.

To make theory a bit more practical, we'll focus on the trapezes on the right handstick.

Example 1:

Inverse trapeze -> sun around handsticks -> trapeze

Knot will open from the middle, and it doesn't differ from the normal knot (inverse + trapeze) a lot.

Example 2:

Inverse -> toss the stick around the string -> trapeze

Knot will open from the middle.

Example 3:

Inverse -> walk around the diabolo -> trapeze

And still the knot will open from the middle.

These examples are the most basic ones, but combining all of the above, the amount of tricks grows exponentially because you can do every single movement infinite times, assuming that you have started with inverse trapeze. While opening the knot, please be aware that you have to open the knot from the outside if you don't do the normal trapeze to the end.

Example 4:

Inverese -> three missed trapezes -> trapeze

Knot will open from the middle and we'll notice that the amount of the missed trapezes isn't relevant. Also from which side of the string diabolo misses the trapeze doesn't matter.

Next we will combine missed trapeze and sun around the handsticks. To keep things clear, we'll do missed trapeze and sun to the same direction, altough the direction of movement isn't relevant.

Example 5:

Inverse -> missed trapeze -> sun around handsticks -> trapeze

In this example, moves done in the middle can be done in every order and as many times as you want.

When combining these moves, you'll have almost infinite amount of different crowdpleasing knots.

Some more advanced stuff coming up as soon as I get it translated. Sorry about the bad english.
It's just a world spinning around your diabolo

viiru

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Knots
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2005, 04:44:46 PM »
And now some more advanced stuff. Originally written by Aaro Kontio from sirkus kumiankka etc etc.

"Deadpoints of the knots part 2"

Understanding the basics of the deadpoints should be obtained before trying some of the following. (well of course you can try but you could end up with unintended knots which are really annoying to open)

Some of the techniques are pretty hard to explain without video but I'll try to explain some of them. When talking about piruettes, the handsticks should stay in your chestlevel. No "sunpiruettes" where the handsticks raise above your head.
Tossing the stick means tossing the stick around the string in horizontal level between the diabolo and the handsticks. Walk around means walking around both handsticks and diabolo. You can also do this by turning the handsticks 360 degrees in horizontal plain.
Switching the handsticks means switching the sticks from hand to hand (editorial note: "no **** sherlock" :)).

Example 1:

Inverse trapeze -> piruette to left -> toss the handstick -> trapeze

We'll notice, that the situation created by the piruette, makes tossing the stick possible. So if we'll do this trick to right handstick, the situation after the piruette (is it pirouette?) is that the string is wrapped around the right handstick. If there wouldn't be a wrap, the left handstick would drop below the diabolo and the trick wouldn't work.
As in previous examples, the amount of single tricks isn't relevant. You can toss the stick five times around the string and the knot will still open.

Example 2:

Inverse -> piruette -> toss the stick -> walk around -> trapeze

Still it doesn't matter which direction you do these tricks.

Example 3:

Inverse -> piruette -> toss the stick and walk around at the same time -> trapeze

In this example we do 2 tricks simultaneously. First throw the stick, and follow it with your body, or walk to opposite direction and watch out not to hit the stick. If this would happen, you can correct the trick with just wrapping the string around to the position in which it should be.

Example 4:

Inverse -> piruette -> toss the stick and simultaneously switch the right handstick to your left hand and walk around -> trapeze

This example breaks virtually every rule that the normal knots have. While tossing the stick, keep in mind that it might be easier for the trick if the stick spins around the string more than once.

Keep in mind that you can use most of these also with 2 diabolos. Results are rather funny.

Phew. I hope you get something out of these. Questions can be asked directly from yours truly. As these are more of a basics, we are currently working with some REALLY insane knots. English translation will appear to here as soon as the finnish version is finished.
It's just a world spinning around your diabolo

Hoop

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Knots
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2005, 02:50:29 PM »
Cool stuff, Thanks viiru!  I like this part  "If not, knot will open from outside. "   :)

eggy900

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Knots
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2005, 09:19:56 AM »
good stuff, really useful information there

Knots
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2005, 12:07:22 PM »
i make a magic knot 2d on my website:

http://f.bigas.free.fr/figure.htm

make right clik on "noeud magique 2 diab"
(there is a little tuto about the eclair trash and an other japan knot if you wanna understand how to make it i think it's would be usefull)
to be or not to be that is or that is Not the question...

eggy900

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Knots
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2005, 12:39:09 PM »
whoa, the videos on your site are of way too high quality, even after downloading they are jerky and slow. They are something like 1350kb/s which is way too much for web use.

Spooned

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Knots
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2005, 02:27:47 PM »
Thats crazy, something like 300kb/s is ok but 1000+ is just mad, might want to scale them down for 56k users.
Diabolo or Diablo

-Leo-

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Knots
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2005, 09:46:11 AM »
heres a nice trick do a macaroni www.diabolotricks.com if you can't, then do a jibe style pirouette thing with the diabolo above your head and it will release with a throw.
Behind your back is your front.

TimEllis

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Knots
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2006, 06:24:20 AM »
Alright so this is probably the most appropriate thread I could find for this.  I would like to start working on the real complex and fast moving knot stuff that I've seen Norbi do and, for example, the Devils Diabolo video.  What would you say is a good route for starting to work on those kinds of tricks?  Just do them?  and undo a ton of insane knots?  I've nearly had to cut my string a couple times the knots were so bad.
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LaNgErZ

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Knots
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2006, 09:50:05 AM »
i hate to say this but yeah. get this once i got a knot so bad i couldn't even cut it. i had to take the diab apart.
Quote
Start with japanese whip to inverse trapeze

thats not a whip.
www.MightAsWellCommit.com - Diabolo Awesomeness.

Nick

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Knots
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2006, 11:29:47 AM »
I would like to think that I've come up with some nice knot combos in my time, so I'll try to give an answer to your question.
When doing a knot combo I tend to think in terms of "Mounts" and "Transitions" (terms from yo-yoing).

A mount is basically a position that the diabolo sits on the strings. These can range from simple mounts such as the normal diabolo position, trapezes, inverse trapezes, etc... to the complicated ones that you see in the middle of those crazy knot combos.

A transition is a way of moving between mounts. Examples of transitions include Japanese whips, undercuts with the sticks, pops between strings, suicides, etc...

A knot combo consists of a series of mounts and the transitions between them, hopefully ending with a nice exit, rather than having to dismantle the diabolo.
When I am coming up with a new combo I will start with a nice mount and then try to look at all the different transitions that are possible from that positions. Some of these transitions lead to dead ends and tangles but others will lead to new mounts. I then repeat the process with the new mount and see what can be done from this position.
Building knot combos comes down to a lot of trial and error and trying out new moves, usually sat on a bed trying to figure out what is going on. Quite a lot of moves can lead to dead ends but occasionally you can find a real gem. The most frustrating thing is when you are just messing around and not really concentrating and you find something really nice, only to be unable to remember what it was when you come to try it again.

I would recommend starting with a simple mount, seeing what sort of transitions you can apply to it and looking at where you end up. You can then build up your own knot combos step-by-step. Also, try looking at other "skill toys", especially yo-yoing, for inspiration for mounts and transistions. I came up with some enjoyable webs by playing around with moves taken from the yo-yo trick Cold Fusion.

I hope that this is useful. Be sure to show us what you come up with. Good Luck.
Nick.
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