Author Topic: bearing diabolo is it cheating??  (Read 16581 times)

mofro

  • Donator
  • Thanks: 9
bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« on: August 14, 2007, 01:40:45 PM »
when i went to the crawley convention (my first convention ;D) i found out something that disturbed me slightly, a lot of people that i met thought that baring diabolos were cheating! even to the extent being that i was slated for using them. now i have a very similar style to langerz (as he has been a BIG influence on me) so i love the idea of a diabolo that you can do tricks faster harder and longer. obviously i can apprecate the fact that its not to everybody's taste but should i really be put down for my style and choice of diab??
so basically what are peoples opinions on the matter is it cheating or just evolution (like what happend with yoyo's) and as a whole do people like the fast, slacky, complex string tricks and webs. or because people cant understand whats going on is it then classed as rubbish??

mofro
**** fixed and bring on the slack!

martijn

  • Moderator
  • Thanks: 113
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2007, 02:13:07 PM »
Just like using a wide axle it ain't cheating. A different prop opens up new possibilities to explore.

Pete

  • VotW Contributor
  • Thanks: 8
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2007, 02:16:23 PM »
I new that someone would start a thread about this, as soon as i mentioned it, and i regretted it. I don't like bearing diabolos. I can see they have great value in vertax because in vertax sometimes it is just too hard to keep spin up when trying longer combos. But in regular diabolo i think its unneccessary. If i put anyone down about using a bearing im sorry, its up to you what diabolo you use, and what style your gonna play. I am suitably impressed with all that weird slacky knotty stuff, coz i can't do it at all, and i have no idea how you do most of it. That impresses me. But i don't want to learn it, because i don't particularly enjoy doing it.
I do think to some extent that using a bearing is cheating. And come on, i think most people can accept that it is sort of. But theres nothing wrong with it, if people want to use bearings, fine, i just don't like them.

And, they make a really annoying noise  :P
The tallest trees from acorns grow.

LaNgErZ

  • Donator
  • Thanks: 38
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2007, 02:30:44 PM »
now i have a very similar style to langerz
first of all get over yourself, you do not have a similar style to me. and dont talk about the yoyo scene when you know nothing about it

what mofro is trying to get at poorly, is the fact that everyone said this 15 years ago about changing from fixed axle yoyos to bearing yoyos (ahem look what happened)
this is merely an arguement about progresion of styles, i found everyone didn't like bearing but frankly i dont really care. eventually people will grow to realise this is the way
the prop is going (for 1d at least) different diabs for different styles, this is NOT a hard concept to grasp and i hate to say but you lot (d.ca at crawley) were probably the most narrow minded group
of diaboloists i've met in such a confined space (not you marc BMC legend)

lz

think josh think!

Nick

  • Donator
  • Thanks: 23
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2007, 03:49:48 PM »
The idea of "cheating" seems a bit strange to me. At the end of the day we're playing with a toy, not taking a maths exam. There isn't a set of rules that could be broken. Just use which ever diabolo works best for you.
Playing diabolo should be about having fun, not worrying about what props people are using or what others think of what you're doing.

Diabolo for yourself.
Nick.
City landmark might be feet lower if rebuilt (6,5)

Pete

  • VotW Contributor
  • Thanks: 8
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2007, 05:25:43 PM »
Quote from: Nick
Playing diabolo should be about having fun, not worrying about what props people are using or what others think of what you're doing

Exactly, now why did this thread appear?
The tallest trees from acorns grow.

Ben.

  • VotW Contributor
  • Thanks: 45
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2007, 05:48:24 PM »
lock it!


Alex!

  • VotW Contributor
  • Thanks: 24
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2007, 05:51:20 PM »
At the end of the day we're playing with a toy
Its not a toy. Saying that really makes it seem childish. Its a juggling prop. There aren't many 5000 year old toys.
STOP! HAMMER 'TIJN

Rob_

  • Thanks: 0
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2007, 06:42:51 PM »
There aren't many 5000 year old toys.

spinning top anyone?  ;)  :D

karl e dangerous

  • Thanks: 0
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2007, 08:43:01 PM »
i dont care as they say diabolo is not an exam its fun for gods sake enjoy it well you dont have arthuritus and the only thin i dont like with bearing diabs is the noise
sorry for my bad grammer

nev

  • Donator
  • Thanks: 62
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2007, 08:58:51 PM »
People who concider bearing as "Cheating" have generally spent very little time actually playing with them.  In fact if they did, they would soon realize that bearings actually make a lot of stuff MUCH harder than regular axles (especially with 2d but equally with some 1d tricks) - but make other things possible that you would never even think to try with regular axles.  Needless to say, I don't see bearings as cheating at all - they just require a different outlook / technique / style to get the best from them.

Nev
www.Diabolomoves.co.uk/diabolos/ - shop for Sundia diabolos, Handsticks & String

Pete

  • VotW Contributor
  • Thanks: 8
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2007, 11:37:29 PM »
OK. First off, when i first mentioned my dislike to bearings at Crawley i felt very much on my own, it seemed that most other people were pro bearing, but they didn't use them all the time. So I kinda assumed that this thread was directed slightly towards me in the anti-bearing front. (thats just what i thought, i might be wrong)
I'll admit i haven't used bearings enough to realise their full potential in exploring new possibilities in diabolo, and i may well realise that yet. I can see how they can open doors to new ideas for some people, but I'm quite satisfied with the possibilities of regular diabolo. So its not for me. I have used them long enough to know that i don't like the way they feel, the way they play, the noise they make, and a number of other things. Thats my opinion, I'm entitled to that. In the short time i have used them, I've realised that it does make a good deal of things much harder, and completely restricts some things. For that reason, i don't think they'll ever take over completely.
As for whether its cheating or not, why does it really matter anyway. And i think cheating is a bad word for it. It is adding to a diabolo to make it spin for longer. It has its advantages, it has its disadvantages. Whether or not this makes the diabolo better or worse is up to each individual and need not really be discussed or argued about.
And I'd like to apologise to anyone i annoyed or offended at Crawley with my constant quips about bearings, i realise that must have been quite aggravating for some people. Sorry guys.
The tallest trees from acorns grow.

GbH

  • Thanks: 14
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2007, 12:42:28 AM »
spinning top anyone?  ;)  :D

Hmm, funny you should mention tops...

An earlier post compared the bearing-diabolo situation with the introduction of bearing yo-yos, some years back.  Although there are obviously some similarities between the two situations, there are many differences too and I think it's a big mistake to assume that bearing diabolos will ever render the traditional models as redundant, which is largely what's happened with yo-yos.

I think a better comparison is to look at the spin-top players, who seem to treat fixed-tip and bearing-tip tops in equal regard, using whichever version is best suited to the particular trick or play-style that they're doing at the time.

Chiok

  • Donator
  • Thanks: 12
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2007, 12:57:45 AM »
... and i hate to say but you lot (d.ca at crawley) were probably the most narrow minded group
of diaboloists i've met in such a confined space (not you marc BMC legend)
Well that's a little harsh, but I respect people's opinions.  By all means on another occasion, I'd love to have a sit down and chat about things other than diabolo.  After all, there is more to life than diabolo (isn't there?)  I personally don't have an opinion on the subject, I'm not a huge fan of the bearings I used at Crawley but some do.  I found myself in a vast minority of diaboloists using Henrys Circuses! (apart from Mark, Susannah and 2 Cups).

@ Pete, if you don't like bearings, that is fine, stand by your opinion.  As long as you don't hunt the whirring sound down with a pair of scissors.  Opinions are good to have.

And vertax is rubbish, unless you prance and mince around whilst practicing.

Chiok
www.gravityvomit.co.uk - Gravity pulls down, we throw up.
University of Bath Juggling and Circus Skills

Squiggle

  • Guest
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2007, 08:41:40 AM »

And vertax is rubbish, unless you prance and mince around whilst practicing.

Chiok

How so? :S

You can do vertax without "Prancing and mincing around."

William

  • VotW Contributor
  • Thanks: 46
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2007, 08:56:26 AM »
I agree with Martijn. Unless you think wide axles are also cheating then really this is a load of rubbish
William - YouTube! "NO! If they're blue, you should not touch your nuts." - Aaro

mofro

  • Donator
  • Thanks: 9
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2007, 10:50:49 AM »
So I kinda assumed that this thread was directed slightly towards me in the anti-bearing front. (thats just what i thought, i might be wrong)

seriously this wasnt a dig at you at all i really respect your opinions and skills it was more of a discussion starter, (and it wasnt just you who was against baring diabolos at crawley anyhow)  ;D

mofro
**** fixed and bring on the slack!

stupendous

  • Thanks: 1
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 08:07:03 PM »
Wow, where do I begin?  First of all, I think that this has been an excellent discussion, and I am very glad it is out in the open.  I am also, very pleased about what I have read.

now i have a very similar style to langerz (as he has been a BIG influence on me) mofro
I love Langley's style too!  he takes the diabolo where only a bearing diabolo can go!

Just like using a wide axle it ain't cheating. A different prop opens up new possibilities to explore.
Beautifully said!

The idea of "cheating" seems a bit strange to me. At the end of the day we're playing with a toy, not taking a maths exam. There isn't a set of rules that could be broken. Just use which ever diabolo works best for you.
Playing diabolo should be about having fun, not worrying about what props people are using or what others think of what you're doing.

Diabolo for yourself.
Nick.
WORD!!

For that reason, i don't think they'll ever take over completely.
Pete, we have never met, but I can tell you are a thoughtful guy.  I respect your opinion, and I also respect your apology.  It seems that there is a fear that bearing diabolos will take over the traditional diabolo scene. I just don't see that happening.  Like you said, bearings make some tricks easier and some tricks harder.  I use a bearing diabolo because I like it, just as much as you like your fixed axle.

Hmm, funny you should mention tops...

An earlier post compared the bearing-diabolo situation with the introduction of bearing yo-yos, some years back.  Although there are obviously some similarities between the two situations, there are many differences too and I think it's a big mistake to assume that bearing diabolos will ever render the traditional models as redundant, which is largely what's happened with yo-yos.

I think a better comparison is to look at the spin-top players, who seem to treat fixed-tip and bearing-tip tops in equal regard, using whichever version is best suited to the particular trick or play-style that they're doing at the time.
100% agree!

As long as you don't hunt the whirring sound down with a pair of scissors.  Opinions are good to have.
That made me laugh... :)


So what I hope is that we can all agree that a diabolo, with or without a bearing, is a skill toy/juggling prop, and that we all use different diabolos to achieve the same goals... to enjoy ourselves, better our skills, and be part of the diabolo community.


This is a great discussion!

peace!
stu
Spintatsics Diabolo Team

Diabolo88

  • Donator
  • Thanks: 30
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2007, 12:41:29 PM »
I don´t see how it´s cheating to use bearings at all (in fact, I find them more difficult to use, maybe cause I´m not used to bearings). However, bearings suck when you´re doing whip-ducides and stuff like that because the sticks wont get a good spread and rotation. For 3D it´s awesome fun though. You can just practice armstallcombos infinitely without having to go out of them to reaccelrate. Personally, I like to practice with them for fun sometimes but I wouldn´t use them as standard. Still, everyone has their preferences. I imagine people who do yoyo as well has better understanding of the potential of bearings?

Where is that video btw by that guy in the PEH cup doing bearingstuff with 2D? Look at that video and you´ll see some awesome potential for exploring.

Agreeing with what´s already been said, different diabolos open up for different tricks, and so does bering/non-bearing ones. It´s a matter of personal taste. If someone could come up with a bearingdiab that acted like a fixed, I think I´d like that.

martijn

  • Moderator
  • Thanks: 113
Re: bearing diabolo is it cheating??
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2007, 01:12:29 PM »
If someone could come up with a bearingdiab that acted like a fixed, I think I´d like that.

That's impossible.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2022, SimplePortal