Learning 2 diabolo! keeping the shuffle going

[kragen]

I've been practicing all day by throwing in to myself, as far as I can tell i'm getting better because I can now keep the shuffle going for 6 or so catches, wheras before I was ounly doing 4 or so shuffles.

Wheras this is an improvement, considering I was working on it solidly for an entire day I dont think ive come much closer to actualy understanding how to do the shuffle

I found the best method to be "following" the path of the diabolo on my right with my right handstick, the trouble is that that ended up with one diabolo landing on top of the other after a short while.

From what I know about driving around the leg, I can stop this by driving to the right more with my right handsick as soon as ive stopped following the diabolo down, but so far doing that has just led to the shuffle falling apart even faster.

I'm really fustrated by the whole thing at the moment, I'm hoping that when I get someone to throw in for me later on tonight, that might help, either that or filming my failed attempts might give me some clues.

[Matt Pang]

The Shuffle happens a lot slower than people often think, my advice would be to drive with the right hand, by moving it up and down just pushing the diabolo along the string, under the other diabolo, which i'm sure you're doing already, but still to lift with the left just to the pop the diabolo's over the top, as you get more experienced you'll find that you'll use your left hand less and less and it will be the right hand doing all the work.
 Another thing someone told me was to get your first diabolo spinning really fast before you throw in the second so you don't have to worry about the first one as much and it will start to drive its self around. Hope this helps a bit  

Keep at it, it will come!

Matt P

[MattF]

don't give up Kragen, I know how frustrating learning 2 diabolos can be. It took me a good 2 months to make the 2 diabolo shuffle and correction of the cups prefect. Its well worth it when you finally perfect it.

I learned with a method (i think its called the rocket start). One thing which helped me when i was learning 2 diabolos was keeping the left hand completely still, and doing all the work with the right hand and stick. Use a little flick of the wrist when the diabolo passes the right stick. This gives the diabolo quite a bit of power and spin.

Also check out Dave Barnes' site its got some great 2 diabolo starts.

Hope this helps,

Matt

[kragen]

Yeah I know I'll get it eventually!

The trouble is ive been practicing all day, and ive gotten to the stage now where it feels like im just trying the same things over and over again

My right hand even aches when I try and do chienese whipping now from doing cheinese whipping with my more rigid wooden sticks too much lol!

The problem isnt with the start, my throw-ins arent ideal, but theyre not bad.

I will try using the left stick more as well, and keep at it.

Thanks for the encouragement!

[Matt Pang]

Some times taking a break from something you've been doing a lot can help as well....i know when i was learning to juggle 5 balls (bit different i know, lol.) if i took a break for half a day or a day and went back to it, it always seemed to be better than it was before, dunno why. Just don't let yourself get frustrated...

[kragen]

yeah, im thinking thats a really good idea at the moment,

Just been practicing and I seem to have gone backwards!

I'm going to have a go at it just now, but I will probably end up just giving up after that until I get comments on my shuffle from someone who can actualy do 2 diabolo (probably monday).

The very idea of having to wait until monday until I work on it again is very very fustrating! But a break from it is proabbly the best idea.

My room is too small to practice around both arms though

[kragen]

Ok - a little update,

I've been practicing on and off for the past 2 hours, and I think something has clicked! Just now I managed to keep the diabolo separated for a short while. I'm no longer just stuck with the shuffle just getting smaller and smaller and then collapsing any more!

The only thing is that if I just use my right handstick then the shuffle becomes more and more vertical until it collapses, however if I assist using my left hand i can actualy make it work like a proper shuffle (until they need correcting which I cant do yet),

My question is... Is using my left handstick like this a bad idea? nearly everyone else i've seen uses their right handstick only when doing the shuffle, I'm hoping that I can work on keeping the shuffle going using my left hand and then once I can keep the shuffle going teach myself to use my right handstick more and my left handstick not at all.

But I'm worried that learning to do the shuffle using my left hand will simply make it harder to teach myself to do the shuffle with my right hand alone!

Either way I'm greatly encouraged, I might not be there yet, but at least im making progress again!

[norbi]

If you're using both hands in sync thats fine its a great way to gain speed and make it look right (its right basically). If you are doing it async, so you left hand is actually hopping them upwards, you are going to have a slower shuffle but there is nothing wrong with it as such, also if you keep this habit, then you wont have to break any old habits when u learn 3, yey.

So left hand is fine.

[kragen]

Ah thats good then,

One last question, whats the difference between "async" and "synch", at a geus one of them is using the left hand and one of them is using the right hand... is that basicly it?

[norbi]

sync is short of synchronous and means moving both hands at the same time.
Async means asynchronously, or Off-sync, or alternating, which means moving the hands at different times. When it comes to 2 diabolos, its hard to find examples. But if you watch Trash or Baptiste do 3 diabolos, Trash does it sync, and Baptiste does it async.

hope that helps

[kragen]

ah yeah, I see - thanks.

Reading the thread about sean needing help with 3 diabolo makes a load more sense now!

[Sean]

if I just use my right handstick then the shuffle becomes more and more vertical until it collapses, however if I assist using my left hand i can actualy make it work like a proper shuffle... Is using my left handstick like this a bad idea?

No, I think you are progressing normally. Everyone I've seen learning 2 diabolos starts off by hopping the diabolos with only their left hand (assuming right handedness) and that's how I started too. The only problem with this is that the diabolos won't be accelerated meaning that they will stop spinning sooner and corrections will be a bigger issue. Once you get used to keeping it going with your left hand you will have the time to figure out how to use your right hand.

Using your left hand with your right hand is not a bad thing either. Watch videos of say, Baptiste, doing a two diabolo shuffle and he uses an asynch motion with lots of left hand motion. The essential part is eventually adding some right hand motion to accelerate the diabolos. It will all come naturally with time. Just stick with it.

Sean

[kragen]

whoop!

I'm really getting there, my shuffle is really uncontrolled, but it worked really well all the same, the diabolo were really well separated!

I'm well chuffed

[kragen]

yay!

Finally after 3 weeks, I really do "have" the shuffle, it works about 70% of the time (depending on how good my throw in is),

I am soooo chuffed!

Anyway, I am now faced with learning how to correct, which seems to me far far harder than the shuffle!

I've looked on the net and seen various quick guides on correcting, the best being the one on www.diabolotricks.com, but it doesnt actualy explain how you get the diabolo into a position where you can whack the diabolo! at the moment they just seem to be spinning so fast...

I've also been told to just whack a diabolo and see what happens!

For the moment im just gonna experiment with the shuffle and maybe hitting some of the diabolo randomly, has anyone got any more definite tips on how to proceed though?

[Sean]

Hmmm... how about trying a little research?
Have a look at this: http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=9

Sean

[kragen]

Ooops

[kurei]

Have you watched the diabology trailer? I learned how to correct my shuffle from it and also from diabolotricks.com If you can do the shuffle corrections are easy... It will only take you a week to do it right... just remember to relax while practicing...  

[kragen]

I have watched the trailer, but I will take another look at all my video's and try and see how people correct.

I will get there, and in the mean time its not too bad because I am actualy doing 2 diabolo whenever im trying to learn corrections

Which is cool

[seán_]

I believe -Fred- has a really nice clip of corrections but I cant see it on his site (its probably somebody else knowing me) the clip I'm thinking about is shot from over the shoulder looking down.

Basically just keep practicing it becomes second nature after a while and you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

(corrections might make a nice tutorial if anybody facies it)

Seán_

[norbi]

(corrections might make a nice tutorial if anybody facies it)

Everyone has different ways of correcting, i use a completely different method from either of the 2 ways i was shown, because i couldnt get the hang of them so i played around until i found some that worked for me.

Do 1 diabolo leg orbits and try tapping/stroking/hitting/grinding the diabolo with the right stick as it comes over, this will give you an idea of what you can make the diabolo do by touching it in different places. Then practice getting one to go slightly higher than normal from a shuffle and apply your previous knowledge.