Author Topic: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)  (Read 20016 times)

LaNgErZ

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2008, 11:30:49 AM »
i too put this off for a while, but now having finally read it this is very very good! congrats. it indeed should be one of the many building blocks for begginers.

ahem..... however, i understand what your saying about how pretty much everything comes down to wrap/unwrap, but there are many major exeptions to that theory, for instance what nev said. a slack whip round both cups,but if you imagine this exact trick but with your thumb instead of the stick, the mount would drop to a single sun.

my point being if you use your thumb/fingers to open strings which are unaccessable to begin with, then the theory doesn't apply. this is also the case with many slackwhips.

lz

well done garner, i'm impressed   


Marko

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2008, 04:40:52 PM »
Thanks. I was kind of waiting for your reply LaNgErZ. Your videos made me
scratch my head with the knot theories in mind. :) And i must acknowledge that
There's many things we haven't tried with the theory.

The first three parts of theories were written like 4 years ago and then i had
no idea what a slack was. So theres lot's of research to be done with knots
and also with the LZ style ;) Hopefully i'll have time do that soon, or maybe
in EJC.

«Diabolo, whiter than the whitest!»

Marko

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2008, 12:38:09 AM »
Diabolo88, right on! I got the idea after testing it a while today. There was one small problem at
first with it. Apparently you can still do it the wrong way. But yea, it works fine. And we haven't
written about it. Maybe in someday we'll update the theories again and i might put it there as well.
But there's plenty of stuff going on now keeping me busy. Tack så mycket. ;)
«Diabolo, whiter than the whitest!»

Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2008, 03:36:14 AM »
Still, as its true, these things aren't really used, as there is no exit.
There would be no point doing a move that would put you in an unaccessable spot.

Marko

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2008, 09:42:06 AM »
Legault, you're referring to the slack over two cups right? That Diabolo88's move actually works
in some of the cases, and doesn't leave diabolo to unaccessible place.
«Diabolo, whiter than the whitest!»

nev

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2008, 10:11:34 AM »
Still, as its true, these things aren't really used, as there is no exit.
There would be no point doing a move that would put you in an unaccessable spot.

What do you mean no exit - there are many exits so its far from an unaccessible spot.

True they are not widely used (yet), but they are increasingly being used and there are some nice possibilities with them.
www.Diabolomoves.co.uk/diabolos/ - shop for Sundia diabolos, Handsticks & String

William

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2008, 10:21:29 AM »
I have a feeling I am going to end up reading something in here.
William - YouTube! "NO! If they're blue, you should not touch your nuts." - Aaro

LaNgErZ

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2008, 10:24:12 AM »
right, (you'll have to bear with me i'm harshly dyslexic)

the idea the diabolo88 is talking about is debatably a very basic laceration, this is the idea of using the knot around the diabolo to make a different postion using your sticks without moving the diabolo that much, there are ultimately thousands of posibilities to be explored with this principle, if i'm thinking the same as you the trick your talking about would end up in the equivelent of a backside trapeze (not release). it is possible in my opinion to get to 1 position to another in less than 4 moves, using lacerations

from a basic side release you can easily get to left fritz (1 popup), right fritz (1 popup), both sides frontstyle (1 popup), trapeze both sides (1 popup). i could go on easily but i think you get the idea.

however this does still conform to your written theory anyway so there isn't really any need to experement, if you made clear that backside/darkside is the same but opposites everything would still work, lacerations are just a way of speeding up an existing trick/line by getting rid of the unnecisary movenments it consisted of before,

but as i say this idea is exactly what you wrote 4 pages about, so dont spin out its exactly the same

lz

pm me if you want anymore help, and sorry if that was unclear
 

aaro

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2008, 11:30:37 AM »
OK, I have a perfect example that I'll try and film soon.
But it's not just about over and under; it's about the twists of the string as well.

Beni
(Expect something cool soon, people. Well... cool in my eyes ::))

I'm still waiting for that revolutionary knot that would thrash our theories :)

Marko

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2008, 12:27:10 PM »
Got the point LZ. Yea, looks like it always comes down to the same thing.
I have hardly done any slacks and that finger stuff. I actually had a blast
while having Xmas juggling party with Aaro, Samuli, Jussi and other Finnish
diabolo fellas. The evening led to a very different style tricks for me, including
slack variations and mind****s with 1 diabolo.

Beni, yeah. Still waiting for it :)
«Diabolo, whiter than the whitest!»

Nick

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2008, 03:25:20 PM »
The idea the diabolo88 is talking about is debatably a very basic laceration...
...from a basic side release you can easily get to left fritz (1 popup), right fritz (1 popup), both sides frontstyle (1 popup), trapeze both sides (1 popup). i could go on easily but i think you get the idea...
Langley,
I'm not really sure that you can call these moves lacerations. If we're getting into yo-yo terminology they sound more like the pop-up from Red Clover (an illustration can be found here) or the chops in the trick Absolute Zero.
"True" lacerations are something different, as illustrated by Spencer Berry in this video at 0.57.

If i'm thinking the same as you the trick your talking about would end up in the equivelent of a backside trapeze (not release).
I think that you and Diabolo88 are talking about two different tricks. In Diabolo88's trick, when he crosses his arms one hand goes under the diabolo and one hand goes over the top of it. The result is a crossed-arm open string (backside). In your trick both hands go under the diabolo when crossing, resulting in a crossed-arm trapeze.

It sounds like there are some interesting ideas coming out of the essays and this thread. I'm looking forward to playing around with some of this stuff.
Nick.
City landmark might be feet lower if rebuilt (6,5)

Beni

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2008, 07:28:17 PM »
Oh yeah, I filmed something but the camera wouldn't upload to the computer, and at the moment I can't be assed to keep on trying. At some point in the next few weeks I will try and get flys and then maybe I'll have the patience to deal with the camera + slow computer + low speed USB port enigma.
Anyway, I was going to post an "inaccessible" knot (i.e. ones that don't fit the theory).

Still, as its true, these things aren't really used, as there is no exit.
There would be no point doing a move that would put you in an unaccessable spot.

LOL. Of course there are exits, and some exits can lead to interesting mounts in the non-dominant laceration position (two sticks in left hand — I think of lacerations as onehanded whips, after Nick cleared the concept up a little for me). Use your imagination...

True they are not widely used (yet)

Oh they will be...        (by me at least)

Beni

Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2008, 10:02:42 PM »
Not exits once you drop the knot i beleive.

Ben.

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2008, 10:23:18 PM »
there are. sean taught me one  :)

when you are in the slipknot on the string you throw the diabolo about head height and sort of move your hands forward and the diabolo just slips out and lands on the string forcing the slipknot to slip as it were. it does require the knot to be quite high up thye string

Beni

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2008, 10:57:29 PM »
Yeah, what Ben said — in some cases you can just whip the string off.
But why would you drop the knot?!

Beni

William

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2008, 11:24:07 PM »
At what Ben said, If its too low to throw out, grab the string and open it up, pop it up to the top of the string so its a slightly tweaked cats cradle. Good for recovering a trick on stage.
William - YouTube! "NO! If they're blue, you should not touch your nuts." - Aaro

Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2008, 02:33:44 AM »
I suppose, yeah, But i wasn't really including slipknot, thats a well known one.
I guess i include knots that can be dropped and then be exited.

William

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2008, 07:58:13 AM »
I think you're being narrow minded. If you can make a knot, you can untie it.
William - YouTube! "NO! If they're blue, you should not touch your nuts." - Aaro

Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2008, 01:12:28 PM »
just because you can untie it, doesnt mean you can untie while diaboloing.

nev

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2008, 03:44:31 PM »
You should be able to untie any knot that you *meant* to get into.  Yes you might make mistakes which end in horrid knots tight on the axle (especially with slacks) but thats only because you do not know the knot you're going to end up with before the event.  If however you then replicate that same knot without letting it slip to the axle, you should be able to work out how to release the knot through diaboloing alone.  Haven't found any that cannot be undone by one way or another.
www.Diabolomoves.co.uk/diabolos/ - shop for Sundia diabolos, Handsticks & String

 

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