Author Topic: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)  (Read 20015 times)

Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2008, 11:41:58 PM »
Exactly, i count knots as knots that slip to the axle and can be undone.

William

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2008, 12:04:19 AM »
Legault, ANY knot can be untied when its around the axle. Some are just harder, obviously. Some diabolos make it easier to exit. Especially wide Baxle flys.
William - YouTube! "NO! If they're blue, you should not touch your nuts." - Aaro

Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2008, 03:06:38 AM »
Not slackwhip around both cups i believe...I think theres a way of getting it to come loose and catching the slack, but no proper undoing method.

William

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2008, 03:32:28 AM »
Why does it have to be a Proper undoing method? There is no proper way to diabolo. And also, I beleive you just contradicted yourself- well done.
William - YouTube! "NO! If they're blue, you should not touch your nuts." - Aaro

LaNgErZ

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2008, 09:02:11 AM »
nick
yeah got what you meen about what diabolo88 was doing, (my bad) your right.

but i always thought with yoyo that you had to whip the the string through underneath the axle and catch the loop like a suicide for a true laceration. (as shown)

so what do we class as a laceration on diabolo? i always used that term for cutting to something else (like if you pop up from trapeze to double or nothing) i've never really thought about it, i just used that name (stupidly)

legault? what are you on about?

lz

^loooks like i've been told   

Nick

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2008, 09:31:25 AM »
I haven't really done much research into diabolo-based lacerations. The closest that I've come would probably be the start of the third trick in this VotW. It has a similar action to a yo-yo laceration and the loop is formed and then caught, rather than chopping into strings.
The distinction between "true" lacerations and slack whips becomes quite blurry when you add sticks to the equation.
Nick.
City landmark might be feet lower if rebuilt (6,5)

LaNgErZ

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2008, 10:03:23 AM »
i've got a few that should count... its just they would have to start in something like a release and catch the loop thrown from that position making it more of a suicide than anything else?

hmmmm thats definatly a grim one.

lz

Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2008, 02:26:28 PM »
What i mean is, I consider, Cradles, trapezes, slackwhips, etc. to be mounts.
I don't consider them proper knots unless they can be dropped and then be undone properly.

Beni

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2008, 02:07:03 PM »
What i mean is, I consider, Cradles, trapezes, slackwhips, etc. to be mounts.
I don't consider them proper knots unless they can be dropped and then be undone properly.

Wow I bet you have some awesome knot combos ::).

@langerz and Nick: I do a lot of what I call lacerations involving both sticks in the right hand where I whip stuff around my left (inspired by Nick). I do think that there are some slacks that can be considered lacerations with the normal diabolo setup. Maybe a loop around the left stick and diabolo caused by momentum from the right stick?

Beni

Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2008, 04:09:55 PM »
Wow I bet you have some awesome knot combos ::).



Did that have to do with anything, or were you just insulting me due to my opinion?
Seriously, keep your nasty opinions to yourself.

Beni

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2008, 04:56:35 PM »
Woah sorry. Just thought it was sort of narrow-minded to think that you couldn't have a mount which you couldn't drop to a normal knot.

By the way, we've had an example of a knot that this essay doesn't apply to for years — Nick's display pic!

Beni

Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2008, 09:38:47 PM »
Sorry, overreacted on my part.
But you don't see me insulting your style.  ;) - and you haven't even seen it yet!
Nah, what i mean, is that i consider things that drop to things that are unable to undo while diaboloing as simply mounts.
Things that drop down to inverses, backsides, suns, wraps, or combinations of those or etc to be PROPER knots.
Others are mounts that can eventually be dropped to a PROPER knot.

mofro

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2008, 02:23:30 AM »
You should be able to untie any knot that you *meant* to get into.  Yes you might make mistakes which end in horrid knots tight on the axle (especially with slacks) but thats only because you do not know the knot you're going to end up with before the event.  If however you then replicate that same knot without letting it slip to the axle, you should be able to work out how to release the knot through diaboloing alone.  Haven't found any that cannot be undone by one way or another.

this is true Nev. the one thing to bear in mind is that you can get out of most knots bu opening the right strings, popping it out and landing it on top, which will nearly never end up in a knot (unless you dive into the realms of sticks through string knots.) basically i would say that this is bad practice, popping the diab out, as it doesn't make for creative exits witch is half the fun of it surely?

mofro
**** fixed and bring on the slack!

LaNgErZ

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2008, 03:15:52 AM »
Quote
this is true Nev. the one thing to bear in mind is that you can get out of most knots bu opening the right strings, popping it out and landing it on top, which will nearly never end up in a knot (unless you dive into the realms of sticks through string knots.) basically i would say that this is bad practice, popping the diab out, as it doesn't make for creative exits witch is half the fun of it surely?

mofro

hahaha he says, i wonder who gave you that idea boy. all your trick belong to me! hahahaha

lz

legault vs beni, knot competition live pay per view

Diabolo88

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2008, 07:20:15 PM »
Quote
think that you and Diabolo88 are talking about two different tricks. In Diabolo88's trick, when he crosses his arms one hand goes under the diabolo and one hand goes over the top of it. The result is a crossed-arm open string (backside). In your trick both hands go under the diabolo when crossing, resulting in a crossed-arm trapeze.


^In the release I talk about you just throw the diab straight up between your arms. If you do nothing afterwards the string should be OVER the diabolo and to stop it from dropping you bring either hand below (usually if the knot goes CW the right hand goes under but both works) and you end up with crossed open string. It´s just a beginners transition but IMHO very important. The trick LaNgErZ is talking about is different.

About lacerations, I always thought slacks were closest in Diabolo. What would you consider a diabololaceration then? Every knot surely cannot be considered a laceration?

The idea of two sticks in one hand seems good. How about doing the "finger propeller" (I don´t know the real name but the one where you spin sticks and locked diabolo around the finger) and just at the release manipulating the natural path of the string in different ways by forming loops with the left hand + the loose string? That should contain some possibilities, but would probably be hard to get the string just right every time. Doesn´t lacerations have a low "hit-rate" even in yoyo as well :P?

Ben.

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2008, 07:30:51 PM »
IMO lacerations are when you do an inverse trapeze, then throw the diabolo up into the left string and when it is up in the air (darksided) you 'lacerate' by moving the right hand stick to the left of the string and trapeze motion it so that it is in a fritz release.
make sense?

Diabolo88

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2008, 07:43:27 PM »
^OK, makes sense now. Very different from what I was talking about as already said.

Marko

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2008, 08:02:07 PM »

By the way, we've had an example of a knot that this essay doesn't apply to for years — Nick's display pic!

Beni


Beni, well that was fairly easy. It's just an inverse trapeze. I would say that it's just plain inverse,
but some might argue with me that Nick is using deadpoint for the web demonstration. Do i have to
make a video of it for you to believe? Because that's no trouble, the trick is really easy. So if Nick
made that with a slack, i would say that he just used different way to get to the final point (like in essay 4).
But yea, a good try. It's good that you're testing the theory.


-Marko
«Diabolo, whiter than the whitest!»

Beni

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2008, 09:52:32 PM »
Nick's figure, if dropped, will result in a 'dead' knot i.e if you're on stage you're doomed.
It is a crossarm slack whip* and to make the actual star shape you move your hand to it's normal position, but in essence it is an instant trick from a single whip.
It's definitely (k)not** an inverse trapeze.

Beni

* Inverted version is possible as well (inverting the left hand movement, not the right). I can do both ;D.

** Oh no, it's the pun police!



William

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Re: The Scandinavian knot theory (four essays, some videos)
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2008, 10:44:35 PM »
That was terrible Beni..  :D

I'm still struggling to wrap* my head around all this.I guess knots aren't really my forte.

*Come on, you know I had to try.
William - YouTube! "NO! If they're blue, you should not touch your nuts." - Aaro

 

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