Eric's Trick (integral suicide to infinite suicides)

[martijn]

on the theme of crazy eric/antonin tricks, I've been working on eric's crazy entrance to an infinite suicide (like, sticks flying around, string on his wrist, he grabs one and goes into it). started working on it in november, gave up, and tried it agin last week and got it after a few tries. It's a real hard trick, with lots of elements you have to worry about. has anyone else been working on this?

Well, it's one of the greatest trick I've ever seen. I saw it with my own eyes in Ypres, it's just a very very nice trick. I really want to learn it, but I've got no idea how to do it. You start with a left backside, and suddenly sticks and string are flying everywhere

mod edit: http://www.jugglethis.net/filemgmt/singlefile.php?lid=72 good example

[diabololi]

Yeh a tutorial would be nice  
I can almost nearly get it to work sometimes!

Oli

[Andy]

Yeah, that's it Jacob. I've been getting this trick 50:50 cos I cant control which backside it gets caught in after the genocide, so it either works or does some silly sun thing and wraps up. I've also had a go at doing what Eric does on the Open stage vid - He turns around and does the infinite suicide off to his side and behnd his back, but i can't control the pop of the diabolo at all. Anyone got any tips for that? I guess its just practice and pulling in the opposite direction for the regular one. Anyway cheers Jacob and Martijn. I will have a go at Erics trick too at some point...maybe tonight.

[Sharpes]

tutorial for eric's insane trick (I'm putting up a video soon, it's in there):

do a left backside. swing counterclockwise, and have the string hit your wrist. When that happens, let go of the left stick, and have the diabolo hit the part of the string between your right wrist and left stick tip about 1 foot from the left stick tip (I use kinda short strings). the right stick should be swinging around at this point, follow it around with your right wrist so it doesn't wrap around it, this also let's you accelerate the stick, which is necessary (also, while you're doing this, move your right hand down along the string a little closer to the diabolo). You should now be in this position:
-holding left stick
-diabolo about 1 foot down on the string from the left stick (depends on string length, mine are a little short)
-from there, string goes up about 6 inches (again with my length string) to your right wrist. string goes accross the back of your hand and out toward the right stick (have it between your thumb and foerfinger, this gives you more control later).
Now, a little bit after the right part of the string (between hand and right stick) hits the diabolo, swing the whole thing to the right and let go of the left stick. gently bring your right hand round under the diabolo (as seen on http://eric.longequel.free.fr/diabology/antonin_eric_of_baguettes_and_diabolos.mpg ) now, the right stick will swing around the diabolo while the left stick and string swings under and off the diabolo, and, after going past vertical, lleaves your hand. grab the right stick at the handle, and go into an infinite suicide.

Now, that all sounds well and good, but the trick is F***ing ridiculous to do, here are some issues:
-you catch the stick tip instead of the handle, making it impossible to go into an infinite suicide. This is all about aim, and takes practice, and is more difficult than videos would make it appear, because the stick ends up varying lengths away from the diabolo.
-the sticks hit strings on their way around, and it tangles
-the right stick doesn't have enough string, so instead of wrapping the diabolo, it just hits it, or goes to like 45 degrees, and the diabolo grinds on it for a few seconds (looks kinda cool the first few times). this happens due to some combination of not enough string on the right side, not enough speed on the right stick going into the whole thing, and not being gentle enough swing the whole thing around.
-the left stick leaves your hand too soon (at the end). this is from not being   gentle enough, and not having the right stick going fast enough.

I use carbon fibres, might be easier with aluminum, but it's certainly different for each diabolo and set of sticks/string. Play around with different aspects to find which one works. Good luck. it's unbelievably frustrating, especially after it kind of works the first time.    

-jacob

[martijn]

Thanks for the tutorial! Now, I don't have to time read it, but 2morrow I will. Thanks again!

[Matt]

Sharpe-san,

Great tutorial.  I can do this trick after Eric showed me at WJF.  Right now I've got it about 90%.  The swing of the right stick and string is strong, but not violent.  The swing of the right hand when both the sticks are released is gentle, and you want to make sure the diabolo goes around your hand just once with very little extra swing, or it will be out of position for the string to re-wrap around it (hence the grinding thing that you spoke of).  You definitely want to have enough string in the right hand to throw around the axle.  

Eric told me the whole movement is smooth and gentle.  I keep that in mind--one motion that contains three actions:  1.  Throwing right string around axle, 2. Releasing left hand stick and 3.  Swinging diabolo around right hand.  

Once you begin the movement, focus your whole attention on the diabolo and wait until you see the stick wrap around it quickly.  That's your cue to grab the stick.  Focus on the stick.  

Good luck y'all, as it's a great trick.  Thanks again, Eric.  (He spent an hour showing me in Vegas--I was clueless).

Matt

[martijn]

Okay, I think I know how to do it. I'm going to try it tonight, at the juggling club. Cheers m8!

[Sharpes]

nice to knowit helped  

[ronnie2tone]

Here's the trick demonstrated by Matt Hall, taken recently at the Scottish Juggling Festival.

(Hi Matt, greetings from bonnie scotland. Haven't cracked this one yet, but still trying!)

http://www.jugglethis.net/filemgmt/singlefile.php?lid=72

[Capitaine buisson]

i love it \/ (i try 5 minutes to work it but nothing comin it s going to be hard )

[Matt]

Hey Ronnie,

Thanks for posting that.  I forgot that people were filming that weekend.  I know Barnsey is going to have some great stuff at some point here.  

On to the trick:  I released the left stick a fraction late I think, and hence the squirrely entry into the infinite suicide, but otherwise, that's the trick.  

You can really see me waiting for the stick to wrap around the axle before I grab it.  

Good luck y'all!  You'll get it soon, I suspect.  It's one of those tricks where once you figure it out, you'll have it.  

Heck, I just got 4 ricochets with 2 diabolos today.  A first for me.  I'm stoked!

[Priam]

Just a point of vocabulary.

I just want you to notice the name of this trick, chosen by Eric of course:
In french : "laché intégral"
that we can translate by "integral suicide".

And actually, you're not obliged to go on with an infinite suicide, you can also catch boths sticks after it.
So in the first case, the full name is "integral suicide to infinite suicide".
In Eric's mind, "integral" means both sticks, but you keep the string in the hand, and sticks are turning in opposition in the same direction.

And Matt, I think I showed you another integral suicide, triggered from a left infinite suicide. I had problems with the exit, but now its OK. Mine can be call 'infinite suicide to integral suicide".



Priam

[wes]

And Matt, I think I showed you another integral suicide, triggered from a left infinite suicide. I had problems with the exit, but now its OK. Mine can be call 'infinite suicide to integral suicide".

Wow! I've never thought of that! but.... I don't still have any idea how the trick is. Does is mean that you can continue "infinite suicide to integral suicide to infinite suicide to integral suicide......."?

Also, is it possible to continue integral suicide? I couldn't do integral suicide completely, so I don't know about that. Could anyone who can do integral suicide has some tips?

[Matt]

Dear Priam,

Excellent point.  I like the term integral suicide, very appropriate.  

I remember the other integral suicide you showed me, but I can't figure it out completely.  I remember you showed me from a left handed infinite suicide, but I don't remember the middle steps!  Sorry....

Perhaps you could post a video of it?  I know everyone on the forum would love it.  Another trick of the week?  

By the way, Eric does another integral suicide in Diabology that involves a hand grind.  Has anyone figured that one out?  Eric, can you explain?  

Sean and I did the commentary for Antonin's routine for the WJF DVD.  It was really fun, and hopefully it came out good.  

Peace!

[Monregi]

a nice tutorial with a fine video, very good Matt and thanks ronnie2tone for sharing it.
After wach it, i can do it, but it finishes with an frontwrap infinite suicide, what i´m doing wrong?
I think there are more integral suicides in diabology, Ant does onewith a slowcide catched over his left arm, involves the diabolo with the rght stick, and does something that appears a left stopover over the left arm, release left stick, next the right, swing and enter into an infinite suicide.

[Sharpes]

antonin's entrance is real cool, I've figured it out, but can't do it yet (haven't worked on it much).  the first part is extra, what he ends up in is the position to do left arm orbits, with the diabolo on the right side of your upper arm. from here, he does a backwrap close to the right stick, throws the stick and diabolo over his arm onto the string, lets go of the left stick, which swings all the way around, and he catches the right stick.

On the subject of integral suicidesI made up a short one a while ago. there's a trick by priam called the clock, it's on his website ( www.diabolobypriam.fr.st ). It's possible to do a double clock, by right after releasing the right stick, throwing the left stick over the right hand, and catching it on the other side. from here you finish the clock as you see fit (maybe going into eric's integral suicide as he does in diabology?).

-jacob

[jw]

Hmm, it's harder than I thought it would be

[Sharpes]

heh, damn right it is

[Erik]

By the way, Eric does another integral suicide in Diabology that involves a hand grind.  Has anyone figured that one out?  Eric, can you explain?  

Hi everybody,

I think I should have posted something to explain the integral suicide (I love this name ), but I haven't been on diabolo.ca for quite a long time... Anyway, I think Matt and Sharpes explained it quite well, and I have nothing to add !
The other integral suicide Matt is talking about is much more easy, but I think you may need a wide axle to perform it (or you'll have to give a lot of speed !). I love it because it is extremely smooth and quite surprising.

Anyway, for this trick I was inspired by Roman and Petronella (respect ). They do a very nice move in trespace, with sticks only : Roman holds one stick, and the other is swinging from right to left. Then Petronella puts her finger in the middle of the string, and Roman releases his stick. Thus, both sticks are free, forming a kind of "V" upside down. Petronella is just holding the middle of the string, therefore, both string are going to swing in two opposites ways, crossing and then forming a new "V" upside down.
I thought this move was great and I wanted to be able to perform it alone, while keeping the diabolo spining. So the trick itself is just what I have explained above, but instead of holding the string, you have the diabolo grinding on your fingers and the string onto it. I have found a pretty way two reach the good position to perform this trick, which is the one on Diabology. But how you get in the position is not very important, so try to find your own now you know the important part of the trick (well, if my explanations are understandable).

What should we call this trick ? Integral grind suicide ?

Cheers,

Eric.

[busk]

i  learned it!   wow! it's awesome...now i have to learn the back genocide from the infinite suicide....i have to work on....i will post a video