Author Topic: problems backwrapping every pass  (Read 37604 times)

problems backwrapping every pass
« on: November 14, 2004, 08:10:33 PM »
Ok, next question.  I've struggled for a while to backwrap to gain speed.  I can now backwrap every second diabolo, but still they seem to come so fast.  I have tried to backwrap every diabolo but there is no way I can keep up with them.  What is the key to backwrapping every one?  Oh so many questions to be answered.  Hope you guys don't get tired of me asking.  Thanks again,

Julian

mod edit: Tijn's tutorial:
www.circuspla.net/diabolo/video/speedwraptutorial.wmv

Arjan

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2004, 08:12:46 PM »
Well, this should come in time. Practice a lot. You need to be quick.

MattF

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2004, 09:09:13 PM »
Hi Julian,

I see from your avatar that you use harlequins. I generally use those too and I have the same problem backwrapping every pass because i find they are heavy and thus takes a little more time to whip. I found that using henry's circus diabolos are easier to do backwraps because they are lighter.

Matt

Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2004, 10:28:22 PM »
I see.  I've been wondering if I should switch to Henrys as it seems everyone uses them.  I really like my Harlequins though.  Thanks,

Julian

Arjan

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2004, 10:32:10 PM »
I have seen a few guy`s who use those and also backwrap any diabolo.
it`s just a feeling, once you have it, you can do it with any diabolo.

norbi

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2004, 11:12:57 PM »
Its all about working out how to pop the other diabolo (not the one being backwrapped) so that it ends up in the air in a nice place to backwrap, try upwards more, try across more, just try controlling the other diabolo until it is in a nice place to backwrap, then try and do that everytime. Also slippy string makes it impossible.

Hope that helps

milka

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2004, 12:04:28 AM »
Indeed, you must focus on the next diabolo to be wrapped, I still have difficulties doing it, the maximum I did was 19 in a row but I still have to be very concentrated. Just keep trying  :wink:

edit : actually I've just had a try and I've beaten my record =)

Sean

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2004, 12:36:35 AM »
Indeed, the solution for this problem seems to lie in months and months of practice. For me, the greatest help was in realizing that the whipping motion should cause the other diabolo to jump up as little as possible. It's easy to make the motion too aggressive at first. Watch some videos of people who are really smooth at this. Priam's videos were probably my biggest inspiration.

I remember the days when I was sure I'd never be able to do it... I'm sure you'll improve at quickly! (The Harlequins won't make a difference, it should be just as easy with any diabolos. If anything, things tend to be easier with heavier diabolos such as the Harlequins.)

Sean

JGherkin

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2004, 07:26:24 PM »
I remember when learning speedups every pass I thought it was impossible, one of the key things I eventually realised was not to try and do it successfully when learning, just muck up over and over but each time really go for each wrap, don't worry if it feels like it might fall apart, it all gives you a feeling of how the diabs will react to what you do.

Matt

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2004, 01:08:08 AM »
Dear Julian,

I agree with Sean that the motion is much more gentle than it might first seem.  I still have problems with the diabolos getting out of alignment.  I've started to fix it by concentrating on the movement of my hand, arm, and wrist.  The unwrap needs to be lined up with the string, otherwise you're rubbing the cups and the diabolos turn/tilt.  

I'm getting better, and I'm sure you will too!
Many Thanks to Sean for all his work and inspiration.  Respect to the MFP!

Sean

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2004, 01:30:29 AM »
(Good to see you here Matt - and I was just about to inform you that "Matt_H" was already taken. Funny how "Matt_H", "MattF", and "Matt Pang" are already taken, but nobody took "Matt". I'll bet no one had the guts to take that one before you ;) )

I just realized that I forgot to mention what I think is one of the most important points to getting backwrapping on every diabolo to work smoothly: moving the left hand (for right handers).

Watch videos of smooth 2 diabolo backwrappers and you will notice that their non-dominant hand moves in a coordinated fashion with their dominant hand. This motion keeps the diabolo from popping up too high. I'm not sure how much of this is a conscious decision to move the hand and how much is a matter of completely relaxing the arm. I believe it is a combination of both. Quite often when I see people strugging with backwrapping on every diabolo I see that their non-dominant hand and arm is rigid and stationary. If I keep my left hand rigid or have someone else hold the left stick without moving, I can't backwrap properly. This is perhaps even more true for holding one diabolo in a backwrap and accelerating it.

Granted that this is not the best demonstration of this principle... but it's the only short video that I have uploaded right now that shows this a bit:
http://diabolo.ca/video/temp/sean_2d_sfan_above.mpg

Notice how relaxed my left hand is and how much that stick moves.

Sean

Tom_G

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2004, 10:41:40 PM »
I'm having trouble with backwrapping every time at the moment, and have been watching a lot of videos to try and see how different people do it. The one thing I've noticed is that the motion of flicking one diabolo over the right stick back onto open string wraps the other diabolo at the same time (it seems to be a continuous movement). Every time I try to do this, however, I manage it once, but then the next diabolo comes round too fast for me to do it twice, and I have to let the shuffle go round once without the backwrap in order to keep them both on the string - basically I wrap two, leave one, wrap two, leave one, etc. Does anyone have any other gems of wisdom they'd care to share about this, especially the right hand movement?

Sorry if that explanation wasn't very clear, it's been a very long term and I need to sleep....
It takes 24 muscles to smile, 42 to frown, and only 4 to hit someone in the face. Luckily for you, I need the exercise.

staticjuggler

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2004, 01:22:51 PM »
Hey Julian

At first it seems impossible, I would know. You want to keep your left hand stationary,  and the more you keep your left hand to the left, the slower the backwrap-every-pass movement will be, because the diabolos have more string length to travel, before jumping off the string.

You also don't want to exaggarate the backwrap movement, because you will get sore arms/wrists easily and it will take more time to do the backwrap too.

-Static
www.staticjuggler.com

How mad would a wood chuck get if a big neon pink Koala bear named Ishtar ran into the woods and chucked all the wood before the woodchuck could chuck the wood?

diabololi

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2004, 02:34:07 PM »
I'm having a different problem which is really messing up my backwraps every one.
Sometimes, even though I think I unwrap it, it is still wrapped. So I pretty much have to take it off the left stick and rewrap  :( .
Any hints?

Oli

martijn

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2004, 09:18:08 PM »
Hey y'all!
As a late christmas-gift, I made a tutorial for backwrapping every pass! I hope it's useful to you guys! Let me know plz :)

edit: Check out my new speed wrap tutorial

Happy new year! :D

Arjan

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2004, 09:34:50 PM »
Nice movie Martijn! I like the music.
Alltough I think it`s a feeling you should develop.
Start by backwrapping a diabolo as fast as you can.
Like backwrap every other diabolo, or every third.

Also practice the hover wich is in the begin of the movie Martijn did.
But just practice a lot diabolo!  :wink:

Mattias

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2004, 01:20:50 PM »
I've started practising like mad on 2 shuffle now and I have a problem with the whipping after a backwrap. Everytime I start doing it the diabolo starts to turn, either clockwise or CCW, which means I have to correct it as soon as I release it into the shuffle, loosing all the speed I gained by backwrapping in the first place, how can I keep the whipping steady, and is there anyway to control the turning of the diabolo when whipping.
This also happens in the beginning when I do a wrapstart.
Anyone know?
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seán_

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2004, 01:57:30 PM »
Malte, on backwrap starts you can get a turn its discussed here http://diabolo.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?p=925#925

basically be aware it will turn and make allowances for it.

Why it turns when you are backwrapping during the shuffle  might be down to technique. so practice might be in order.
Are you on aboout it turning when you hover rather than standard backwrapping. In the hover you can actually tap the bells to correct them.

On the backwrap technique, try playing about with how you do them, which way the sticks point, how you put the wrap on and how you whip etc. and maybe have somebody (or a vid camera) to one side to see if you are pulling the diabolos out of line this might account for the diabolos turning (mine sometimes go askew if I accidentally catch the handstick on the diabolo when unwrapping). hope thats some help

Mattias

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2004, 02:36:21 PM »
Thanks Seán_, I discovered that I have been holding the sticks a bit out of line. Havent gotten the hang of the wrapping/whipping, but I have an unusually short string, which makes it a bit harder hitting the wraps dead-on.

Thanks for the help, appreciated
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Dave P

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Re: problems backwrapping every pass
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2005, 05:30:06 PM »
After using Renegades for many years I was overjoyed to find santa had brought me some lovely henrys circus' for christmas :D .I soon discovered that they actually need to be spinning,quite fast :roll: to be of any use.
I decided to learn constant backwraps (a trick I had managed to avoid for 10 years!). After initial struggles and an embarrassing inability to string even 2 together, it clicked and 5,6 or 7 was quite easy. I had been trying to do the whole thing in one fluid motion and this resulted in total lack of control and the feeling that I could never possibly be fast enough.
The key for me was to concentrate on the point after you wrap the diabolo and it must stop going down so that you can pull it back up to unwrap it. Just a tiny pause here (milliseconds?) gives a moment of stability in which you can think about aiming the next throw, so I thought about this moment and started counting from this point also and things went well.
Hope that's a clear description, sadly I'm fairly sure it's not :roll: ,still if you're still struggling give this a go, I hope it helps!

 

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