S-Fan corrections, stability, tips?

[JGherkin]

I can keep my s-fan goin for about a minute if I'm havin a gud day, but I can't yet correct at all, sumtimes i mite be lucky and manage to tap the diabs in the rite posish at the rite time but I have no definate way of keeping it going.  Also the fan falls apart almost straight away when goin down on my back or shortly after running above my head.

Any tips on corrections or running high would be much appreciated

[Arjan]

It`s easier with the finesses with wide axels. If your doing henrys, I believe you have to keep your arms together, and try to get the string at 1 line. Sean will be able to explain it better.

And practice a lot!

[Sean]

As I've told you before: a minute of s-fanning with Henrys is no small feat! I'm impressed!

Wide axled finesses are *much* more forgiving than Henrys. I can adjust my hand movements and correct the finesses. With Henrys I just try to keep things straight in the first place. Once they get spinning slowly, if they get out of alignment I'm usually sunk. My best luck with Henrys s-fanning has come from keeping my sticks as close to the center plane as possible. If you go in too far the string starts catching on the sticks. I usually go that far and then back off just a tiny bit. I also find it helps to keep the fan right in front of my face so I can look down the string and make sure everying is as lined up as possible.

Sometimes I find that if I keep my hands really close to the center, my sticks keep hitting the diabolos. Magically they almost always straighten them out... but no - I don't understand it either.  

In terms of holding it above your head and on your back - I think that is just a matter of practice. If you can do it in a normal position then it is just a matter of transfering those skills to different positions. I think the biggest benefit to getting a fan solid over your head and lying down (besides the fact that it looks cool   ) is that it makes your normal fans that much more solid. I wouldn't really call my overhead or lying down fans completely solid yet, but they're getting there. If you can run around, go over your head, sit down, and lie down while fanning you get a good feel for a solid fan motion. I'd love to play s-fan combat... maybe something to try out at the WJF or EJC next year! What do you think?

Sean

[Elmeri]

Sorry but I couldn´t find another place to put this.
My s-fan (yeah, this time it´s the real s-fan) is bad I can hold it something like 10 sec most. My diabolos (usually done with finesses) just get out of balance, how can I corret them?

And I can´t yet open it....

[Pete]

my s-fanis uite solid, can't do it for a whole minute. I don't have any of the evolution kits for my finnesses.  But i can't get out ot it. One comes out fine the other has a half twist on. Seans exit in the videos with the s-fan in doesn't make sense.

SMell ya l8r

[Sean]

Pete, there's an explanation and picture of my "triangle" exit in this thread:
http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=55

Dave P.'s armstall exit is I think the most intuitive and easiest to learn. Dave has another simple sfan exit which I have ready to release as a trick of the week some time soon. Anybody want to see it?

[Martijn]

Dave has another simple sfan exit which I have ready to release as a trick of the week some time soon. Anybody want to see it?

Ooh, yes please!!

[JGherkin]

On the corrections side of things, I use my sticks to tap the cups as they come round to correct in one direction, I'm slowly managing to become more precise with my taps so I can fairly accuratly correct tilt and direction...I have tried to get a good video of this a few times but the action is small and quick and Im having trouble finding a decent angle, I'll post in here if I do manage to get one tho...hey, maybe another tutorial?  

Just to update my opening post here, proud to let u all know my s-fan is nice and solid now, last time I timed it I managed just over 6mins before my arms were completely knackered and I decided to exit it...maybe I could've held it longer if I hadn't stuck a few swinging fans in there?  

[mrpink]

This is a sligthly confused theoretical post , if you dont like or understand it. just ignore it.
Im not an s-fan expert, but I have a background in mathematics and physics (and even in metapysics...)
 When I tried to figure out why the diabolos start to tilt I came up with the following theory (based on my experiments...)

While in the s-fan each diabolo swings around in a plane of its own,
in this post I´ll call them "swing planes". When these "swing planes"
are paralell (both diabolos are then moving in the same plane) the
diabolos will stay in line. When the "swingplanes" start to differ
(so that there is a small angle between them)
it will cause the diabolos to start to tilt in opposite directions
(generally onetilts  backwards and the other forwards).
If one "swingplane" turns to the rigth it will cause the diabolo
swinging in it to start to tilt backwards.
If one "swingplane" turns to the left it will cause the diabolo
swinging in it to start to tilt forwards.
Its more or less just like when you do string corections with one diabolo.
When you do the s-fan you can control the alignment of the two "swingplanes"  with your handmovements.  And thereby you also control
the tilting of the diabolos.
If you for example want RH diab to tilt backwards an LH to tilt forwards you shuld turn the RH-swingplane sligthly to the rigth and the LH-swingplane sligthly to the left. (RH diab passes a bit  to the rigth of where LH diab passes when they are as far away from you as they get).
If you want to tilt both diabolos forwards you shuld turn both swingplanes  sligthly to the left. (just turn to the left).
This shuld provide us with a method to correct the diabolos when in the s-fan.
Jupp thats about it...enough theory back to play around with diabolo:-)
Anny comments or thoughts?

[Sean]

I've tried to theoretically analyze what motion you would need to correct an s-fan, but the best results I've found are just through trial and error. It doesn't take too long to try a different motion with your hands and see what happens. I discovered that for me the motion had to be a wave motion. They  don't go straight forward - they dip towards the middle at the front and generally the hands are quite wide. Of course all of this seems easier to try out with wide axled finesses because they are more forgiving if you don't have the perfect hand motion.

However, I find this type of analysis quite interesting... so feel free to continue it.

Pink, I think you're on the right track. Essentially the problem is that the hands can't be perfectly in the middle and occupy the same space, so they have to pull off to the side. The string rubs slightly on the cups and the direction of pull from the string isn't straight.

[JGherkin]

I'd already realised what makes them tilt in this direction, the reason I resorted to practising tapping the cups is that I can see no way of finding the opposite angle to tilt them back, I've tried pushing the sticks past each other which was the only possibility that came to mind but this ends up in a huge tangle  

Any ideas for reaching this opposite angle for correcting?

[Sean]

Well something just clicked. I guess by scooping my hands together in front of the diabolos (and at the back too I think) I am rubbing the cups in the opposite way that I am rubbing them when my hands are at a place where they must be apart to keep from catching the string.

[Dracodragon]

Heh. you so beat my sfan record(which is about 1/2 a second) i need to work on my fans too, they really suck. Might be my henrys, and i need tons of practice too.

Hmm, this might not work, and if it does, then itll need expert precision, but how about correcting the sfan with the string. Thatll be amazing.

[JGherkin]

Yeah Dracodragon, when Sean said about scooping his hands together in front of the diabs I am assuming he meant by this motion the string would be rubbing the opposite cup, thus correcting with the string.  I've attempted it but I only ended up correcting one diabolo  Sean, when you said something clicked were just talking about the idea or did you actually get this to work?

And Draco, don't give up on your henrys just because it may be easier to do the fan with somethin else, I got told it'd be nigh on impossible to do it with my henrys, didn't stop me...ok so it was probably only because i couldn't afford any others but hey, I got it to work  

[Dracodragon]

Lol, yeah im not gonna give up on the fan. I just need to get it down better. Ive gotten good on my hyperloop/sprinklers, and my 2d suicides. I think my hands just get synchronized, and make too big circles. Thanks for the insparation tho.

[Sean]

Sean, when you said something clicked were just talking about the idea or did you actually get this to work?

Just the idea of why what I do works. That's the way I've always done it - by changing the shape of this wave motion that I make with my hands. Wish I could get it on film but I can't find a good angle. My darn head is in the way.

[mrpink]

Wish I could get it on film but I can't find a good angle. My darn head is in the way.

Cant you hold the camera with your mouth?

Dracodragon I think that doing some poi culd help you to get the feeling for the handmotions, its kind of the same. Learning fans goes verry well for me, and i now belive that having dabbled a bit in poi is the reason for this.

[mrpink]

Just did an accidental correction with my stomach... im going to play around a little with it, it seems like more fun than the other methods...

[Sean]

Just did an accidental correction with my stomach...

I prefer to correct with my nose... no wait, I'm even more accurate with my left ear.  

[Pete]

i dont know if this is the right topic to post this in but at some point i remeber reading that you cant do a 360 s-fan and i just did one so it must be possible. just checkin.