What makes for an interesting diabolo video?

[Sean]

This topic seems to be frequently discussed on jongle.net but rarely is mentioned here. This is something I often think about and I'd be interested to hear the opinions of other people.

What makes for an interesting diabolo video?

Here are some of my thoughts, some of which are based on what has been discussed on jongle.net, particularly by Priam (the everpresent advocate of well produced diabolo videos):

-innovative tricks
-a variety of interesting backgrounds
-good lighting
-a well thought out story line
-visible props (choice of prop colour and proper compression of video)
-well framed shots
-carefully edited montage (with the cuts and tricks synchronized with the music and with appropriately timed cuts before and after tricks)
-appropriate music
-appropriate use of video speed adjustment (if used at all)
-appropriate transitions (usually simple cuts and fades)

I wouldn't say that all of these are necessary, although the more the better. The most obvious element that could be left out is innovative tricks. There's no reason why an excellent diabolo video couldn't be shot without new tricks providing that all other elements of a good video were there.

Perhaps for a video to be truly interesting I think there must be something new or different about it. This could come from the tricks, the filming, or the montage, or ideally all 3.

What are your thoughts?

[Dracodragon]

Hmm, how about introductions and endings(words introducing your trick and stuff)
Then there are also things like explanations of tricks if neccessary.
Different camera angles, such as seeing the diabolos from a top view, or some simple zoom effects should be cool too.How about special effects too.

[Matt_]

i think interesting videos contain 3 things:

speed
variety
difficulty

for example, diabology's "of baguettes and diabolos". it's fast, it's varied, it has nice music, and a lot of the tricks are insane and so smooth. THAT makes for a good video. videos that are slow and show the same tricks or something old and stale just arent entertaining. that's why im not going to make a video any time soon, im still at the stage where im learning other peoples' tricks, not linking my own together :p

[Tahia]

for me juste one thing: fuuuuuuuun! just have fun and make the watcher have fun....!! it's not the cannes festival...; we are not spielberg... and not all from the mad french possee! that's what i think!

[mrpink]

Great toppic!
I think there are different kinds of diabolo movies. A educational diabolo movie is good if it explains the trick its about. If its a fast or "tricky" trick a slowmotion is a good idea. Otherwise i think that the artistic aspects are secondary in this kind of movies. Its how well it teaches that is the main thing here.

Movies with new/innovative tricks are interesting to watch for other diabolists because of the trick, artistic aspects are always nice but not really nessecary in this sort of movies. We will watch them annyway...


The points sean made is much more important if you want to make a movie with artistic ambitions, I agree with all of them and wuld like to add a few things I think can help:
-The performing diabolist shuld be enjoying himself.
-Playfullness...We are having fun after all, dont we?
-It culd be cool to have parts in the movie filmed during a live performance.
-the movie shuld be inspiring, make others want to try for themselves...

I also think it wuld be nice to have some movies with fully develloped stage/circus routines here as well.

[martijn]

Yes, those are good points Sean! Very usefull when making a new video. It seems so obvious, but you do have to pay attention to it. I find a high quality of the video also very important. That makes the movement of the diabolist smoother and more natural I think. Adobe Premiere, right Sean?

Also a mix of 1 and 2 (maybe even 3) diabolo moves is the nicest I think. Don't do your 1d tricks section first, and then your 2d tricks section, but mix them up!
Nice backgrounds are one of the most important things (after the tricks ofcourse ). A forest is nicer to watch then a boring wall or backgarden (my 4th vid ). Variety of backgrounds keeps the video interesting to watch as well.

Maybe it's usefull to point out a few things you really shouldn't do (well, I don't say it's illegal or something, but just a few toughts):
 - don't copy entire combo's of other people and film them for your video. I would say using tricks from someone else is okay ofcourse, but make your own combo's instead of copying an entire combo!
 - don't use low quality clips in your high quality video...
 - don't change your video after you've saved it, converted it, uploaded it (etc.) and posted it on the forum(s). I don't think many people do this, but someone at the Dutch forum did this Just save the new tricks for a new video.

hmm, don't know anything more atm... Just a few thoughts. Add yours!

btw Sean: can you post the link of the topic at Jongle.net? I'd like to read it, but I can't find it...

[Sharpes]

yeah I agree with Martijn about the background thing. I've always been random places and been like, "man, how sick would this look in a diabolo video." I really like the ones used in siteswap freestyles on diabology. random, aesthetically pleasing backdrops look good.

[Sean]

btw Sean: can you post the link of the topic at Jongle.net? I'd like to read it, but I can't find it...

It has come up many times in the past in different video threads. Right now there is some discussion in the Tout en Finesse video thread.

[Spooned]

I think the main ideas in a video should be:
1) Flow of tricks (as well as good editing)
2) Good, well executed, inovative tricks
3) Intersting storyline / plot
All this has probably already said but oh well

[ne00xide]

I'd have to agree. Seeing as I'm making my first video currently I'm enjoying all this help. Forest backgrounds seem to be my favorite when watching but I also like the idea of something fun in a very unfun place. Like bright colors and diabolos in the middle of a junk yard, I think it makes the diabolist stand out aside from the interesting background.

[eggy900]

i think the smile video works really well because it uses an interesting background and the performers interact with the scenery really well. and also the humour element adds to the whole video greatly.

[el_grimley]

I suppose it also has a lot to do with what type of video is it. Is it just a recording of a show, or lots of sperate clips merged into one!? But I imagine any tips about act coreography also apply as this is essentialy an act.

Graham

[dark_]

fpr me the synchronization with the music, and of course a good sound track are very important, but as tahia said the very important element is the fun ! (and the FAN...eheheh) !!

chaps
dark_

[Chiok]

I'm agreeing with the guy above me ^

Choice of music plays a huge role in my appreciation of a video.  A good choice of appropriate music with well timed breaks which fit into the flow of the video are great and I love them because it makes the impact so much more effective.

Change in scenery is also great, the more interesting places the better.  Personally I don't really notice kick-ass tricks, but I do notice where they are done, how they are done and how they are presented.  Plus it's also nice to see locations in videos and go "I know where that is" or "I've been there!".  Innovation is also a great big influence, so twists on the norm are greatly appreciated in the way the environment is used.

Things not to do -
Shake the camera.
Have different compression / video qualities.
Shoot indoors without really good lighting.

I might think of some more things to do later...

Chiok

[donald grant]

My tuppence worth, if anyone's interested.......

The greatest test for "skills videos" is, for me, whether they can be watched for more than five minutes by a non-afficianado without them losing interest.  An educational film needs clarity first and foremost, but a skills-based or "freestyle" is free from such restraints.  Unfortunately, technique is never enough to keep anyone interested for long, even the most dedicated trick freak.

Pacing, edits, music, camera angles, etc. are all important.  Narrative, themes and characters can also add greatly to a "skill film"  but be careful not to get too carried away, Speilberg!

Don't know how many of you out there come from an "alternative sports" background, but many of the "classic" films are still hugely watchable today, regardless of the fact that the tricks are often seen as old-school or outdated.  If you can get your hands on them, I would certainly recommend....

Skateboarding:  Anything by Powell, especially "Animal Chin".  
                        Deathbox "Spirit of the Blitz" .
                        Plan B "The Questionable Video".

Skiing:              Warren Miller stuff is great, but I'd always go for a bit of
                        Greg Stump.  "Blizzard of Aaaahs" and "Maltese  
                        Flamingo" are hugely dated but still so watchable....

BMX                  "Steel Rods" and "Stress Kings" are a couple of road trip
                         favourites, but "Ride On" and "Mad Matt" are true
                         classics.  And the "Dorkin" series. (If Dave P is out there
                         reading this, I hope he agrees

Watching other "skills" vids (especially for skills you're not so familiar with) is, in my opinion, probably one of the greatest aids to putting together one of your own.

Thanks for listening,

Donald

[Matt_]

Donald: those are some pretty old skate videos! on the idea of skate videos...one that really impressed me was the Girl video "Yeah Right" which was excellent. also, for some reason PJ Ladd's Wonderful Horrible Life always kept me interested as did Chomp on This, although they are pretty much straight up skating.

[martijn]

Thanks for that Donald! I would like to add one to the list: Dogtown and Z-Boys. Arjan said I had to watch it, and he was right. Great video, I gained much inspiration from that video (while editing the CP 2005 video).

[Arjan]

Yeah, but that`s more a documatuary as it is a skating video. It is about skating, but there is not much of that in there. But the whole vibe around it is pretty awesome.

But yeah, (skate) *edit* skill video`s are a great source of inspiration! There is so much energy and action in it.

[Valium]

I would recommend Blind - Video Days, also a really old skatevideo, but one of my favorites

[Dracodragon]

Alright guys, i am making a video finally. So far I have:
-interesting backgrounds
-some bloopers
-unique tricks
-music
-good quality

anything else I am missing(besides that I need a better editing program)?