Infinite suicides

[kragen]

Mod edit: I split this from the [trick] Genocides - Mini Genocides thread to allow them both to develop: Seán_

Also, whats the trick where your only holding one handstick and the other is orbiting around the diabolo, continuouly.

I call it continuous suicides, but what do I know

[MattF]

Its just a standard genocide, or infinate suicide.

[Sean]

Also, whats the trick where your only holding one handstick and the other is orbiting around the diabolo, continuouly.

That would be commonly referred to as the "infinite suicide" I believe. My understanding is that a genocide refers to any trick in which a diabolo is released from the string and recaptured in a wrap while only holding one stick. So, yes you can do a genocide from an infinite suicide (as Antonin of France is a master at doing), but no that's not easy.

When you stop and think about it, the terminology that has been adopted for many diabolo tricks is just plain strange.

Sean

[kragen]

lol - strange but making a lot more sense now

How do you go about learning infinite suicides anyway? I've got a load of video to look at and im fairly sure how its done, but so far my attempts at actualy doing the infinite suicide have all failed

[|}{| Julian |}{|]

I have problems doing the infinite suicide as well.  Everytime I try to get it going, the diabolo wraps up the string and whips the swinging stick around.  I've actually broken carbon sticks before when I wrapped up so fast and hard .  What am I doing wrong?  What is the correct way to get into it?  Thanks!

Julian

[Arjan]

Do it gentle. You don`t need a fast spinning diabolo. make the move rond, but hold on the top for the diabolo to go a little bit down, and for the stick to come around.

[norbi]

1) hold the string out horizontal, with the diabolo closer to the right stick, completely unwrapped
2) backwrap (string wrap (what you would do for the classic stringclimb) the diabolo with you right hand. Just as you go underneath the diabolo, let go of the left stick, just let go.
3) as the left stick gets about 180 degrees around (horizontal but on the right hand side of the right stick) tug the right stick upwards quite gently and rewrap the diabolo.
4) this will cause the stick to swing around again. Do the same thing next time

So are continually rewrapping the diabolo to keep the swinging stick swinging. Keep the diabolo as high/as close to the right stick as possible.

If anyone just about understands this but would like something to look at. i WILL make a video, including the start. No doubt i will also inlude some classic or newer variations.

Hope that helps.

[kragen]

thanks for the tips, I'll let you know how I do as soon as ive got some space to practice

[Sean]

It took me ages to learn this trick. I was hopeless at it until Matt Hall explained one thing to me: The motion is not uniformly circular. You spend perhaps 80% of your time on the upstroke and then quickly whip around to start pulling up again. The upstroke is slow and well... pulling straight up. Watch the hand motion of someone doing this trick very carefully. There is a definite rhythm to it.

If the diabolo is winding up on you it means you are starting to recircle the diabolo too early - or in other words, your upstroke isn't long enough or slow enough. If the diabolo falls down the string or off the string then you aren't performing the rewrap section quickly enough or early enough.

A friend of mine can only start an infinite suicide from a stopover with one stick dropped. You start swinging this around the stick you are holding and then let the string fall off the end of the stick and form a wrap. I believe it may be easier to start this way - it prevents you from having to learn the exact rhythm and motion necessary to start the pattern - which may the hardest part.

Sean

[seán_]

This trick is sided isn't it? by that I mean if you do it in one direction you will keep the diabolo spinning, the other direction will take speed away (also dependant on what wrap is on the diabolo).

When I try it from a left side genocide I know it generally stacks quite quickly.

Seán_

[Sean]

This trick is sided isn't it?

Yes, very one sided. The action adds considerable speed to the diabolo. You can start with a wrapped diabolo on the ground, pick it up in an infinite suicide with one handstick and accelerate it. The longer you spend on the upstroke the greater the acceleration. Of course, you could do it with either hand - as long as you are holding the correct stick.

[Martijn]

I have problems doing the infinite suicide as well.  Everytime I try to get it going, the diabolo wraps up the string and whips the swinging stick around.  I've actually broken carbon sticks before when I wrapped up so fast and hard .

I also had this problem. But I use wooden sticks for crazy tricks like infinite suicide, so it won't break that easy... (I've broken 2 pair of carbon sometimes, so from now on I hate those sticks ) I struggled with it for a long while. But finally I got it. Start with a non-spinning diabolo, (or a diabolo which spins very very slow) so it won't wrap up any more. Then make the hand-movement very slow, Just like Sean said: You spend perhaps 80% of your time on the upstroke and then quickly whip around to start pulling up again.
And perhaps you use a very weared string. That isn't helping...

Good luck!

[|}{| Julian |}{|]

Great, thanks for all the tips!  I'll give it a try at the club on Monday (no room here at home).  Marijn, I know what you mean about the carbon sticks.  I hate it when they break , but I've found you can glue them back together many times with a cyanoacrylate glue (crazy glue).  I love them and could never go back to wooden sticks.

Julian

[Sean]

the carbon sticks...I love them and could never go back to wooden sticks.

Amen to that! But, come on... join the aluminium side: the benefits of the carbon sticks but no risk of breakage and less string usage. You know you want to...

Anyway, I was looking on my harddrive to see if I had any old closeup footage of me doing an infinite suicide that might illustrate the pause on the upstroke and the rhythm. Didn't find much, but I did find two short clips which I quickly put together with some catchy music. I tried recording them in slow motion, but the interlaced effects on the video make it shake all over the place and make it generally hard to look at, so this will have to do. In particular, have a look at the 5 to 6 second mark. I think that's the best segment in terms of the ideal hand motion.

http://diabolo.ca/video/temp/sean_1d_infinite_suicides_TEMP.mpg (1.6mb)

(I know what some of you are thinking: Sean's showing a video of him doing a one diabolo trick - I thought he could only diabolo with 2 on the string at once!? Well, I'll have you notice that the first trick is a 2 diabolo entry and the second clip starts with 2 diabolos but I'm in the middle of dropping one. So there.)

Sean

[|}{| Julian |}{|]

Hey thanks for that Sean.  Nice to see the proper motion.  I'll give it a try.  Great music by the way!  I guess I'll have to give aluminum handsticks a try.  I'm on my second set of carbon handsticks in just over a year as I've re-glued my first set way too many times.  Last time they snapped there was nothing left of one.    Ciao,

Julian

[kragen]

lol - thanks sean,

I dont know about alumilium handsticks, I've got wooden and alu handsticks atm, and my alu ones are bent!!

I cant use the wooden sticks because the string doesnt slip off the end easily enough and grinds are no good, im waiting for some glass fibre or carbon fibre sticks.

[Martin]

Ive actually just discovered an alternative one from fritz realise ...

its not too bad, u can catch the stick straight into the throw.

cool

[seán_]

Ive actually just discovered an alternative one from fritz realise ...

its not too bad, u can catch the stick straight into the throw.

cool

Will have to see it tomorrow in Leeds, (where I'll have more height than I have to play about with infinite suicides)

Any chance of a better description on your method Martin?

Seán_

[kragen]

im struggling with this one, I think i understand the motion but whenever I try it the diablo just seems to drop off the string, no matter how quickly I rewrap it, I think my method of getting into it is wrong...

[Sean]

whenever I try it the diablo just seems to drop off the string, no matter how quickly I rewrap it, I think my method of getting into it is wrong...

It starts from a normal backwrap - the one usually used for acceleration. So, if you are right handed, the wrap consists of wrapping the diabolo with the right hand on the cup closest to the body. You would then swing the diabolo from left to right to get into it.